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Apple’s Protection From Nefarious Developers

edited February 24 in Other

Every time I read the app sales thread, I wonder what stops a rogue developer writing clever but malicious code, to steal information and what Apple does to protect us. Do other people share these concerns or do you just 100% trust Apple and love a bargain?

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Comments

  • edited February 24

    I think Apple are pretty diligent. I have been thinking of getting an Android tablet just to install Youtube for the treadmill, as my trusty iPad mini 2 will no longer support the latest version (downside of Apple). But yah I don't think I'll feel comfortable installing apps willy nilly on an Android or even putting personal info on it. Been on nanny iOS for so long heh.

  • @AudioGus said:
    I think Apple are pretty diligent. I have been thinking of getting an Android tablet just to install Youtube for the treadmill, as my trusty iPad mini 2 will no longer support the latest version (downside of Apple). But yah I don't think I'll feel comfortable installing apps willy nilly on an Android or even putting personal info on it. Been on nanny iOS for so long heh.

    Seems to me Apple devices stay updateable to the current OS longer than Android stuff

  • edited February 24

    @BiancaNeve said:

    @AudioGus said:
    I think Apple are pretty diligent. I have been thinking of getting an Android tablet just to install Youtube for the treadmill, as my trusty iPad mini 2 will no longer support the latest version (downside of Apple). But yah I don't think I'll feel comfortable installing apps willy nilly on an Android or even putting personal info on it. Been on nanny iOS for so long heh.

    Seems to me Apple devices stay updateable to the current OS longer than Android stuff

    I thought you can install old apps on Android? But now that I think about it I guess part of my issue is that Youtube no longer supports its old app... so even if I could install an old one it would not help me... hmm, OK, maybe I should just spring for an iPad 9 for treadmill... hmmm...


    Oh but yah I work with engineers and we make apps and apple stuff seems pretty tight on the security front. (Sry for the OT babble)

  • iOS is extremely locked down, there's basically zero information or files that an app can access without the user's explicit permission or deliberate action. Also, accessing almost any hardware apart from the touchscreen requires asking the user for permission too. So I'd say your worries are mostly unwarranted.

  • ‘mostly’ but not 100%, that’s the bit I worry about.

    How is the code reviewed by Apple? Is it automated in some way, is every line of code read by a human? In every instance? Like an update?

    There must be examples of people getting around it or do Apple sweep these events under the carpet?

  • Nothing is 100% safe from malicious code, but you can’t be scared of every remote eventuality. I think almost no one here worries about this.

  • @01XMO said:
    ‘mostly’ but not 100%, that’s the bit I worry about.

    How is the code reviewed by Apple? Is it automated in some way, is every line of code read by a human? In every instance? Like an update?

    There must be examples of people getting around it or do Apple sweep these events under the carpet?

    Remember, every app is run in a "sandbox" (similar to a VM). So, when the AppStore tests an app, they can see all the (allowed) system interfaces the app uses. They reject apps that don't comply with the rules, and even those that violate some criterion. For instance, AUv3 music plug-ins are often rejected if they don't "work" when simply opened.

  • Scared and worried aren’t the same thing. I just don’t download every crappy free/cheap app that wants access to data I don’t want to give them or tracks activity.

  • edited February 24

    @01XMO said:

    There must be examples of people getting around it or do Apple sweep these events under the carpet?

    When people find exploits and Apple finds out they release an update fixing it. I have seen some hit the news.

  • wimwim
    edited February 24

    Of all the places I consider security risks, Apple device software is one of the least of my concerns.

    (I'm not any kind of expert! But I was responsible for IT systems in multinational corporations for more than 30 years.)

    The protections built into iOS itself are more robust than almost any other platform. To exploit something there has to be access to the calls that invoke those actions. You can't just write code that does anything you would like. Not providing the access in the first place is the first line of defense. iOS is very well locked down in that respect.

    The second line of defense is requiring explicit user permission to access sensitive functionality, and making such permissions granular, such as asking whether or not to grant permission "never, always, or only while using the app" to location services. The user granting permission part is of course the weakest link. But with the other sandboxing it's better than many other operating systems.

    The third line of defense is the Apple review. I'm sure most of it is automated. And that's a good thing! Automation can perform actual tests on 10,000s of things in a fraction of the time and more accurately than a human can. Automation can scan code for weaknesses or suspicious practices with high accuracy. In fact, how do hackers find vulnerabilities most of the time? Through automated vulnerability scanners and penetration testing!

    That leaves unpatched security flaws. Every operating system is going to have them. It's just a fact of life. But to put it in perspective, most of us do far, far more risky things all the time without a second thought.

    • Hand your credit card over to some restaurant employee who disappears into a back room with it.
    • Poke in our ATM passcode in public places where who knows who or what cameras could be watching.
    • Purchase from web sites we have no control over the security of and more importantly how long they store our information.
    • Leave information that can be linked to us on social media
    • Use our primary email address as user name on web sites.
    • Use the same password on multiple sites
    • Stuff our credit and ATM cards into gas pumps where "skimmers" can have been installed
    • Jump on public unsecured wifi
    • the list goes on and on...
  • @01XMO said:
    ‘mostly’ but not 100%, that’s the bit I worry about.

    Life in general is not safe. Running apps is still a million times safer than most other activities you're doing daily ;)

  • I got fooled by an app calling itself Midjourney, using the exact logo whatnot. They offered sub and one time purchase which I don't recall how much it was now but it was not cheap and not super expensive either but I took the bait and bought it.
    The app worked like shit so I contacted Midjourney on Discord only to get informed they don't have an app.

    Apple soon removed the app (all within a week) but still refused me a refund.
    So you can get cheated even if it's not by stuff that will harm your system or hardware.

  • @SevenSystems said:

    @01XMO said:
    ‘mostly’ but not 100%, that’s the bit I worry about.

    Life in general is not safe. Running apps is still a million times safer than most other activities you're doing daily ;)

    There’s a statistical chance of being killed by a falling coconut or a kick from a donkey, and there is a measurable amount of deaths annually from each cause. Sometimes you just have to stop thinking about the things that there’s a statistical chance of occurring or you lose the chance to enjoy things in life.

  • wimwim
    edited February 25

    I'm glad this all came up. It's a reminder that we all should be doing what we can to protect ourselves from spontaneous human combustion.

  • …and don’t forget that it’s important to be protected by your non-ferrous invasive EMF reduction apparel.

  • edited February 25

    Don’t forget being bored to death by Internet clowns. Thanks for the other genuine responses. The 🤡’s I ignore.

  • @michael_m said:

    @SevenSystems said:

    @01XMO said:
    ‘mostly’ but not 100%, that’s the bit I worry about.

    Life in general is not safe. Running apps is still a million times safer than most other activities you're doing daily ;)

    There’s a statistical chance of being killed by a falling coconut or a kick from a donkey, and there is a measurable amount of deaths annually from each cause. Sometimes you just have to stop thinking about the things that there’s a statistical chance of occurring or you lose the chance to enjoy things in life.

    Statistics, I just love how they get manipulated or should I say adjusted.

    Nothing in life is absolutely safe, but if you stick your head above the parapet, be very wary.

    You may end up in Belmarsh.

  • edited February 25

    @michael_m said:

    @SevenSystems said:

    @01XMO said:
    ‘mostly’ but not 100%, that’s the bit I worry about.

    Life in general is not safe. Running apps is still a million times safer than most other activities you're doing daily ;)

    There’s a statistical chance of being killed by a falling coconut or a kick from a donkey, and there is a measurable amount of deaths annually from each cause. Sometimes you just have to stop thinking about the things that there’s a statistical chance of occurring or you lose the chance to enjoy things in life.

    That's exactly what I mean. There's already a million things to worry about and bad politics are still piling things on top all the time. In general and especially nowadays, practicing "not-giving-a-shit-ness" is a really important exercise in mental health. In my opinion of course! And it's obviously not easy. Everyone is different and I respect others worrying more. Both are valid attitudes. But I personally try not to.

  • edited February 25

    @SevenSystems said:
    practicing "not-giving-a-shit-ness" is a really important exercise in mental health.

    This statement is so true, especially over the past half decade or so.

  • edited February 25

    Some people like to ignore problems, don’t like to think too hard, bury their heads in the sand, sweep things under the carpet. I prefer to question and think about things; rather than just accept them. Try to do something about the things I don’t think are right. Hopefully engage in some reasonably intelligent conversation, listen, learn something, think, question some more.

    Some people like to derail, take focus away from topics they’re uncomfortable with. Or, realise the point raised is something they probably should be more concerned with but don’t have the capacity for. Or, they don’t like having to face and think about it and the potential consequences of their own actions. So they make dumb jokes and dumb comments instead.

    Raising a concern doesn’t immediately put it at the same weight and in the same category as larger world issues. Nor does it need to be written off because of lists of other dumb shit that dumb people do. Not everything is black and white.

    Perhaps this concern is unwarranted, in this instance, based on some of the intelligent responses. I certainly will continue to ignore a lot of what’s promoted in the ‘iOS App Sales & Discussions’ thread - especially the apps without decent websites, decent reviews and those who want to mine and track data that is unnecessary for their app to function - which counts out the majority of what’s promoted.

    YMMV and you’re welcome to give them access to your data, let them track you, use your network data and help drain your battery - If it’s free, you are the product!

  • My advice is be very wary of anyone who thinks they are the smartest person in the room.

  • edited February 25

    @TheOriginalPaulB said:
    My advice is be very wary of anyone who thinks they are the smartest person in the room.

    Hard to tell if that’s directed at me but if it is. I don’t.

  • Pasaba por aquí, ningún teléfono suena y no lo pude resistir.....pasaba por aquí.....

  • @01XMO said:
    YMMV and you’re welcome to give them access to your data, let them track you, use your network data and help drain your battery - If it’s free, you are the product!

    What now? Are you talking/ranting about Android here?

  • @tekk said:

    @01XMO said:
    YMMV and you’re welcome to give them access to your data, let them track you, use your network data and help drain your battery - If it’s free, you are the product!

    What now? Are you talking/ranting about Android here?

    Jesus! Not ranting and NO, iOS. Doesn't android only have about 5 proper music apps?

  • @01XMO said:
    Some people like to ignore problems, don’t like to think too hard, bury their heads in the sand, sweep things under the carpet.

    On the flip side, some people like to see problems when they are not there, even to the extent that they become obsessive and all-consumed by them.

  • @michael_m said:

    @01XMO said:
    Some people like to ignore problems, don’t like to think too hard, bury their heads in the sand, sweep things under the carpet.

    On the flip side, some people like to see problems when they are not there, even to the extent that they become obsessive and all-consumed by them.

    Not true of me, in this instance, but true, of course

  • edited February 25

    I've been an iOS dev since the start of the App Store

    Apple does very little binary scanning for safety reasons, beyond the code sandboxing features of the OS. Most of the App Store review process is to protect their monopoly (or technically duopoly). It's corporate protectionism masked as consumer protection.

    For concrete info on harms caused by 3rd party devs, there was this recent news: https://www.macrumors.com/2024/01/25/push-notifications-leak-user-data/ this popular exploit lasted at least 7 years

  • @wahnfrieden said:
    I've been an iOS dev since the start of the App Store

    Apple does very little binary scanning for safety reasons, beyond the code sandboxing features of the OS. Most of the App Store review process is to protect their monopoly (or technically duopoly). It's corporate protectionism masked as consumer protection.

    For concrete info on harms caused by 3rd party devs, there was this recent news: https://www.macrumors.com/2024/01/25/push-notifications-leak-user-data/ this popular exploit lasted at least 7 years

    Very interesting. As I expressed originally, no reason not to think that smaller, clever, independent, rogue developers could exploit the same. Still, nothing to see here, it’s all fine, move along, your concerns are irrelevant 🤷‍♂️

  • @wahnfrieden said:
    I've been an iOS dev since the start of the App Store

    Apple does very little binary scanning for safety reasons, beyond the code sandboxing features of the OS. Most of the App Store review process is to protect their monopoly (or technically duopoly). It's corporate protectionism masked as consumer protection.

    For concrete info on harms caused by 3rd party devs, there was this recent news: https://www.macrumors.com/2024/01/25/push-notifications-leak-user-data/ this popular exploit lasted at least 7 years

    Nice find! Great post!

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