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Combustor issue with controllers in AUM

gkillmastergkillmaster
in General App Discussion

Dear @beepstreet,

Combustor is the only IOS effect that I have any issue with in AUM. This makes it usuable, so I keep checking to see if it's been updated to fix this. It's been over a year now and the bug is still there.

The sympthoms are that the parameter dials flap around wildly when I assign a CC controller to any of them. Also, the dials seems to respond more chaotically the more counterclockwise I turn them.

Please please fix this. This app begs to be played like an instrument and missing this fix is seriously limiting the app. Would be one of my most used, but I don't use it at all as a result of this.

Thank you, I'll keep looking for updates.

Greg

«1

Comments

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @gkillmaster said:
    Dear @beepstreet,

    Combustor is the only IOS effect that I have any issue with in AUM. This makes it usuable, so I keep checking to see if it's been updated to fix this. It's been over a year now and the bug is still there.

    The sympthoms are that the parameter dials flap around wildly when I assign a CC controller to any of them. Also, the dials seems to respond more chaotically the more counterclockwise I turn them.

    Please please fix this. This app begs to be played like an instrument and missing this fix is seriously limiting the app. Would be one of my most used, but I don't use it at all as a result of this.

    Thank you, I'll keep looking for updates.

    Greg

    Can you post a demonstration? It seems to work fine for me. There may be some particular detail of how it is being setup that is relevant.

  • gkillmastergkillmaster
    edited March 11

    @espiegel123 said:

    Can you post a demonstration? It seems to work fine for me. There may be some particular detail of how it is being setup that is relevant.

    Sure, is there a way to post a video here? Doesn't seem to accept movie file when I try the upload file or image.

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @gkillmaster said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    Can you post a demonstration? It seems to work fine for me. There may be some particular detail of how it is being setup that is relevant.

    Sure, is there a way to post a video here? Doesn't seem to accept movie file when I try the upload file or image.

    Post to YouTube or similar as unlisted and post a link.

  • gkillmastergkillmaster

    @espiegel123 said:

    @gkillmaster said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    Can you post a demonstration? It seems to work fine for me. There may be some particular detail of how it is being setup that is relevant.

    Sure, is there a way to post a video here? Doesn't seem to accept movie file when I try the upload file or image.

    Post to YouTube or similar as unlisted and post a link.

    ok, I'll see if I can do that. Thank you!

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    And make sure to show not just the symptoms but the details of the midi control mapping.

  • gkillmastergkillmaster

    @espiegel123 said:
    And make sure to show not just the symptoms but the details of the midi control mapping.

    Ok, here's a video showing the results. I'll post photos of connections in AUM in a minute:

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @gkillmaster . What is sending the midi? Have you used a midi monitor to examine it … to be sure that the knobs aren’t reflecting what is being received?

  • gkillmastergkillmaster
    edited March 11

    @espiegel123 said:
    @gkillmaster . What is sending the midi? Have you used a midi monitor to examine it … to be sure that the knobs aren’t reflecting what is being received?

    yes, used ShowMIDI to confirm that I was sending the correct MIDI CC from a MIDI Fighter Twister.
    I'm just slowly rotating the knobs and what you see if what I'm getting.

    here's the setup:



  • gkillmastergkillmaster
    edited March 11

    P.S. I mapped the controls on Jamp Bleep the same way and have not issues with it. Also, I tried mapping directly to Combustor (bypassing AUM MIDI Control), but got exactly the same issue. This is the only app I have this issue with so I made the assumption it was the app.

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @gkillmaster said:
    P.S. I mapped the controls on Jamp Bleep the same way and have not issues with it.

    Can you use streambyter as your midi monitor and send the midi from one knob and take a screenshoot of the log. I wonder if you are are sending relative midi — which AUM does not handle.

    Also, did you know that you can take screenshots and screen recordings in the device itself.

  • gkillmastergkillmaster

    @espiegel123 said:

    @gkillmaster said:
    P.S. I mapped the controls on Jamp Bleep the same way and have not issues with it.

    Can you use streambyter as your midi monitor and send the midi from one knob and take a screenshoot of the log. I wonder if you are are sending relative midi — which AUM does not handle.

    Also, did you know that you can take screenshots and screen recordings in the device itself.

    Yeh, thanks. I realized I should've taken screenshots instead :) I didn't know I could record the screen in a video though. Let me check the relative MIDI thing now.

  • gkillmastergkillmaster

    @gkillmaster said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @gkillmaster said:
    P.S. I mapped the controls on Jamp Bleep the same way and have not issues with it.

    Can you use streambyter as your midi monitor and send the midi from one knob and take a screenshoot of the log. I wonder if you are are sending relative midi — which AUM does not handle.

    Also, did you know that you can take screenshots and screen recordings in the device itself.

    Yeh, thanks. I realized I should've taken screenshots instead :) I didn't know I could record the screen in a video though. Let me check the relative MIDI thing now.

    MIDI Fighter Twister has a relative option but none of the dials are set to relative. And like I said, the same controller works fine for Bleep. I have streambyter but I'll have to do some studying to figure out how to use it as a midi monitor. I'll post back once I have a chance to do that. Thanks for your generous help!

  • uncledaveuncledave

    @gkillmaster said:
    Also, I tried mapping directly to Combustor (bypassing AUM MIDI Control), but got exactly the same issue. This is the only app I have this issue with so I made the assumption it was the app.

    Just want to mention that, when you're using the AUv3 parameters, you should not route the controller to the Combustor app; MIDI Control is enough. This would ensure that the app itself is not responding to some conflicting CCs.

  • gkillmastergkillmaster

    @uncledave said:

    @gkillmaster said:
    Also, I tried mapping directly to Combustor (bypassing AUM MIDI Control), but got exactly the same issue. This is the only app I have this issue with so I made the assumption it was the app.

    Just want to mention that, when you're using the AUv3 parameters, you should not route the controller to the Combustor app; MIDI Control is enough. This would ensure that the app itself is not responding to some conflicting CCs.

    Ok, thanks. Good to know!

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @gkillmaster said:

    @gkillmaster said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @gkillmaster said:
    P.S. I mapped the controls on Jamp Bleep the same way and have not issues with it.

    Can you use streambyter as your midi monitor and send the midi from one knob and take a screenshoot of the log. I wonder if you are are sending relative midi — which AUM does not handle.

    Also, did you know that you can take screenshots and screen recordings in the device itself.

    Yeh, thanks. I realized I should've taken screenshots instead :) I didn't know I could record the screen in a video though. Let me check the relative MIDI thing now.

    MIDI Fighter Twister has a relative option but none of the dials are set to relative. And like I said, the same controller works fine for Bleep. I have streambyter but I'll have to do some studying to figure out how to use it as a midi monitor. I'll post back once I have a chance to do that. Thanks for your generous help!

    Please post the logs. From streambyter. As I said, they are behaving as expected for me.

  • gkillmastergkillmaster

    @espiegel123 said:

    @gkillmaster said:

    @gkillmaster said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @gkillmaster said:
    P.S. I mapped the controls on Jamp Bleep the same way and have not issues with it.

    Can you use streambyter as your midi monitor and send the midi from one knob and take a screenshoot of the log. I wonder if you are are sending relative midi — which AUM does not handle.

    Also, did you know that you can take screenshots and screen recordings in the device itself.

    Yeh, thanks. I realized I should've taken screenshots instead :) I didn't know I could record the screen in a video though. Let me check the relative MIDI thing now.

    MIDI Fighter Twister has a relative option but none of the dials are set to relative. And like I said, the same controller works fine for Bleep. I have streambyter but I'll have to do some studying to figure out how to use it as a midi monitor. I'll post back once I have a chance to do that. Thanks for your generous help!

    Please post the logs. From streambyter. As I said, they are behaving as expected for me.

    do I run streambyter stand alone on my iPad or in AUM?

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @gkillmaster said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @gkillmaster said:

    @gkillmaster said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @gkillmaster said:
    P.S. I mapped the controls on Jamp Bleep the same way and have not issues with it.

    Can you use streambyter as your midi monitor and send the midi from one knob and take a screenshoot of the log. I wonder if you are are sending relative midi — which AUM does not handle.

    Also, did you know that you can take screenshots and screen recordings in the device itself.

    Yeh, thanks. I realized I should've taken screenshots instead :) I didn't know I could record the screen in a video though. Let me check the relative MIDI thing now.

    MIDI Fighter Twister has a relative option but none of the dials are set to relative. And like I said, the same controller works fine for Bleep. I have streambyter but I'll have to do some studying to figure out how to use it as a midi monitor. I'll post back once I have a chance to do that. Thanks for your generous help!

    Please post the logs. From streambyter. As I said, they are behaving as expected for me.

    do I run streambyter stand alone on my iPad or in AUM?

    In aum. Route the midi to it. Tap on the magnifying glass to start logging

  • gkillmastergkillmaster

    @espiegel123 said:

    @gkillmaster said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @gkillmaster said:

    @gkillmaster said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @gkillmaster said:
    P.S. I mapped the controls on Jamp Bleep the same way and have not issues with it.

    Can you use streambyter as your midi monitor and send the midi from one knob and take a screenshoot of the log. I wonder if you are are sending relative midi — which AUM does not handle.

    Also, did you know that you can take screenshots and screen recordings in the device itself.

    Yeh, thanks. I realized I should've taken screenshots instead :) I didn't know I could record the screen in a video though. Let me check the relative MIDI thing now.

    MIDI Fighter Twister has a relative option but none of the dials are set to relative. And like I said, the same controller works fine for Bleep. I have streambyter but I'll have to do some studying to figure out how to use it as a midi monitor. I'll post back once I have a chance to do that. Thanks for your generous help!

    Please post the logs. From streambyter. As I said, they are behaving as expected for me.

    do I run streambyter stand alone on my iPad or in AUM?

    In aum. Route the midi to it. Tap on the magnifying glass to start logging

    ok, thanks!

  • gkillmastergkillmaster

    @espiegel123 said:

    @gkillmaster said:

    @gkillmaster said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @gkillmaster said:
    P.S. I mapped the controls on Jamp Bleep the same way and have not issues with it.

    Can you use streambyter as your midi monitor and send the midi from one knob and take a screenshoot of the log. I wonder if you are are sending relative midi — which AUM does not handle.

    Also, did you know that you can take screenshots and screen recordings in the device itself.

    Yeh, thanks. I realized I should've taken screenshots instead :) I didn't know I could record the screen in a video though. Let me check the relative MIDI thing now.

    MIDI Fighter Twister has a relative option but none of the dials are set to relative. And like I said, the same controller works fine for Bleep. I have streambyter but I'll have to do some studying to figure out how to use it as a midi monitor. I'll post back once I have a chance to do that. Thanks for your generous help!

    Please post the logs. From streambyter. As I said, they are behaving as expected for me.

  • wimwim
    edited March 11

    @espiegel123 - this is a known issue and has been reported here and on the Beepstreet forum. @giku_beepstreet acknowledged it over there. Still waiting for a fix. @gkillmaster - you might want to bump that thread over there:

    https://forum.beepstreet.com/discussion/comment/47700/#Comment_47700

    Previous mentions here:
    https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/comment/1225057/#Comment_1225057
    https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/comment/1293984/#Comment_1293984

  • gkillmastergkillmaster

    @wim said:
    @espiegel123 - this is a known issue and has been reported here and on the Beepstreet forum. @giku_beepstreet acknowledged it over there. Still waiting for a fix. @gkillmaster - you might want to bump that thread over there:

    https://forum.beepstreet.com/discussion/comment/47700/#Comment_47700

    Thanks a lot! I will do that.

  • wimwim

    @gkillmaster said:

    @wim said:
    @espiegel123 - this is a known issue and has been reported here and on the Beepstreet forum. @giku_beepstreet acknowledged it over there. Still waiting for a fix. @gkillmaster - you might want to bump that thread over there:

    https://forum.beepstreet.com/discussion/comment/47700/#Comment_47700

    Thanks a lot! I will do that.

    btw, it works OK in Drambo

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @wim said:
    @espiegel123 - this is a known issue and has been reported here and on the Beepstreet forum. @giku_beepstreet acknowledged it over there. Still waiting for a fix. @gkillmaster - you might want to bump that thread over there:

    https://forum.beepstreet.com/discussion/comment/47700/#Comment_47700

    Previous mentions here:
    https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/comment/1225057/#Comment_1225057
    https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/comment/1293984/#Comment_1293984

    This is trippy. I tried it before I first replied and it worked ok. But I just tried again and am seeing that weird oscillating behavior. It doesn't happen in Loopy Pro. Has it been brought to Jonatan's attention in case it is an AUM issue?

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @gkillmaster : the problem seems to be the speed with which events come in. I wrote a streambyter script that throttles the throughput and it looks like if filter out events that were within 5ms of each other that combustor behaves in AUM. My test script isn't useful because if you have multiple CCs coming in, it will filter more events than it should.

    But someone with better streambyter skills than I could probably whip up a smarter version than mine that could throttle streams on a per cc basis.

    Maybe someone has already written one? @uncledave?

    What this does is:

    • when a cc comes in check the time
    • if the timer is less than the timeout, block the event

    This may be a poor implementation but I think it demonstrates the throttling the stream will solve the problem.

    It also explains why I didn't see the problem when things worked ok for me as I was using an onscreen midi cc generator that sends fewer messages than hardware controllers seem to.


    # throttle
# when matching event comes in
# if the timer is less than our timeout value (I1)
# and a matching event has been passed (I0)
# block the event; otherwise set the eventPassed flag to 0

If load
  ass I0 = 0 #set to one when first matching event comes I 
  Ass I1 = 5 #min time between events
End

IF M0 >= B0
  IF M0 <= BF # if matching event

    IF T00 < I1
      IF I0 > 0
        BLOCK
      ELSE
        ASS I0 = 1
      END
    END
  End
END
  • wimwim
    edited March 12

    Good effort but hopefully the developer will look into it as he said he would. Such a script doesn't seem like a reasonable workaround to me.

    Might just need a reminder nudge or two.

  • ShabuduaShabudua
    edited March 12

    I seem to remember having a similar problem with a Mozaic test script of mine in AUM; it turned out Mozaic was sending data faster than AUM could handle. I never found a solution and I didn’t push the issue since my script was just a test. But it makes me think the problem might indeed be AUM, not Combustor.

    @espiegel123 said:
    @gkillmaster : the problem seems to be the speed with which events come in.

  • gkillmastergkillmaster

    Thanks @espiegel123 , I found a way to set things up in Drambo and it seems to work ok there though it loses connection off and on. Mostly it's ok. But the controller setup in Drambo is different as each controller goes through a separate module so not sure what the difference is. Does seem likely that it could be in AUM, but then why does it only happen with Combustor. I got an email from someone at Beepstreet about this.

    "Hi Greg, it looks like a speciffic case, it doesn't happen with controllers I have, will check it and post a fix soon.

    Best regards,
    Jarek / BeepStreet"

    I've tried it on several controllers here and it's happened on all of them. Maybe I should try sending CC's from my DAW. I'll try a few more things here but I'm happy enough with the set up in Drambo.

    Looking forward to knowing what the actual cause is.

  • uncledaveuncledave

    @espiegel123 . I wonder if you could just block duplicate values of the same CC#, using a StreamByter array to remember the last value of each CC. Init the array to 0x80, which is not a valid CC value.

    Could this be a problem only with specific MIDI controllers that may be scanning and transmitting unusually rapidly? I don't have the app, or MIDI Fighter Twister, so hard for me to test.

  • gkillmastergkillmaster

    A fix may be coming soon! Just heard back from Jarek:

    "I've found it and it's issue is really strange.
    It's AUM that changes that AU param constantly, even when I remove MIDI source.
    It probably depends on something, will try to find it out. Noticed that AUM stops the flood when I handle only one modulation event per frame.
    I applied that fix and beta version should be available in max 2 days, I will send you invitation so that you may check it.

    Best regards,
    J"

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @gkillmaster said:
    …. Does seem likely that it could be in AUM, but then why does it only happen with Combustor. I got an email from someone at Beepstreet about this.

    >

    Imo, the fact that it doesn’t happen in other hosts is something that means it MIGHT be the host doing something unusual…that it doesn’t impact other AUv3 may me mean it is a bug in the AU OR that the AU does something legit but unusual. In cases like that it’s can be a good idea to let both devs know.

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