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Unpatchable vulnerability (gofetch) in Apples „M“ chips

CrabmanCrabman
edited March 2024 in Desktop

My biggest question ist: ipads affected as well or does sandboxing prevent this? I have an M1 Macbook as well but my M1/2 ipads are more important to me.

https://arstechnica.com/security/2024/03/hackers-can-extract-secret-encryption-keys-from-apples-mac-chips/2/

https://gofetch.fail/

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Comments

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • michael_mmichael_m

    Good luck to anyone in the EU who wants to install apps from 3rd party app stores.

  • SevenSystemsSevenSystems

    Maybe it's time to reduce complexity in CPUs again so that they only do what you explicitly ask them to do, not what they THINK you MIGHT want to do in the future... if that's too slow, just add more cores 😃 (yes, I miss the 6502!)

  • os68ngos68ng

    @SevenSystems said:
    Maybe it's time to reduce complexity in CPUs again so that they only do what you explicitly ask them to do, not what they THINK you MIGHT want to do in the future... if that's too slow, just add more cores 😃 (yes, I miss the 6502!)

    There is still a strong fan base for the 6502 and others out there. For most of my daily work at least an Atari ST would be enough (and will even heal overstimulation by social media 🤣).

    But to be honest, this attack is not trivial and requires an installed app. These side chain attacks remind me a bit of crosstalk in audio gear 😄

  • jebnijebni

    @os68ng said:

    @SevenSystems said:
    Maybe it's time to reduce complexity in CPUs again so that they only do what you explicitly ask them to do, not what they THINK you MIGHT want to do in the future... if that's too slow, just add more cores 😃 (yes, I miss the 6502!)

    There is still a strong fan base for the 6502 and others out there. For most of my daily work at least an Atari ST would be enough (and will even heal overstimulation by social media 🤣).

    Good times. This reminds me that I made a custom t-shirt design (based on ancient ads in Dr Dobbs or somesuch) that I forgot to pull the trigger on.

  • pedropedro

    So this just targets Mx chips? Thank god I’m poor. Also this thread sounds a little like fear mongering

  • jebnijebni
    edited March 2024

    And speaking of 68K computers like the ST, I also just remembered that I need to install my “new” 68040 upgrade for my Mac Color Classic. Which runs MOTU’s Performer (from when MOTU did that sort of thing). Let’s burn the 21st Century to the ground. Oh wait, it’s already a dumpster fire.

  • gusgranitegusgranite

    How is this vulnerability actually exploited?

  • LuxthorLuxthor

    Relax, there is no safe CPU! Haha! 🫣

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meltdown_(security_vulnerability)

  • SevenSystemsSevenSystems

    BTW, to add a bit of seriousness to my "simplicity in CPUs" post: I know the problem is not about the number of cores, but about memory access speed. But this should not be "fixed" through extremely dodgy and opaque and unpredictable mechanisms like caches and the bullshit that this vulnerability is about. It should simply be handled explicitly by the programmer. i.e. the platform should simply expose two separate types of memory, "slow" (RAM) and "fast" (cache). Could be an argument to malloc() which kind of memory I want. Problem (and many others) solved!

  • michael_mmichael_m

    @gusgranite said:
    How is this vulnerability actually exploited?

    If I’m reading it right it needs the user to install an app with malicious code in it.

  • SevenSystemsSevenSystems

    @os68ng said:

    @SevenSystems said:
    Maybe it's time to reduce complexity in CPUs again so that they only do what you explicitly ask them to do, not what they THINK you MIGHT want to do in the future... if that's too slow, just add more cores 😃 (yes, I miss the 6502!)

    There is still a strong fan base for the 6502 and others out there. For most of my daily work at least an Atari ST would be enough (and will even heal overstimulation by social media 🤣).

    Heh. Your nick looks suspicious... are you developing the New Generation of an OS for an 68k CPU? 😄

  • mojozartmojozart

    I'm reminded of a long 2018 thread, to which some deleted user responded:

    Only Apple watch is save (more or less).
    Logic for Apple watch please

  • gusgranitegusgranite

    @michael_m said:

    @gusgranite said:
    How is this vulnerability actually exploited?

    If I’m reading it right it needs the user to install an app with malicious code in it.

    Thank you

  • supadomsupadom

    @mojozart said:
    I'm reminded of a long 2018 thread, to which some deleted user responded:

    Only Apple watch is save (more or less).
    Logic for Apple watch please

    …and a microscope

  • michael_mmichael_m

    @supadom said:

    @mojozart said:
    I'm reminded of a long 2018 thread, to which some deleted user responded:

    Only Apple watch is save (more or less).
    Logic for Apple watch please

    …and a microscope

    Is there an app for that…?

  • SevenSystemsSevenSystems

    @michael_m said:

    @supadom said:

    @mojozart said:
    I'm reminded of a long 2018 thread, to which some deleted user responded:

    Only Apple watch is save (more or less).
    Logic for Apple watch please

    …and a microscope

    Is there an app for that…?

    No, but you can use a sharp needle to press the buttons 😄

  • michael_mmichael_m

    @SevenSystems said:

    @michael_m said:

    @supadom said:

    @mojozart said:
    I'm reminded of a long 2018 thread, to which some deleted user responded:

    Only Apple watch is save (more or less).
    Logic for Apple watch please

    …and a microscope

    Is there an app for that…?

    No, but you can use a sharp needle to press the buttons 😄

    😂

  • pax-eternapax-eterna

    Not sure how this affects everyday users tbh?? Seems to be mostly those involved in crypto work and coding....

  • supadomsupadom

    @michael_m said:

    @SevenSystems said:

    @michael_m said:

    @supadom said:

    @mojozart said:
    I'm reminded of a long 2018 thread, to which some deleted user responded:

    Only Apple watch is save (more or less).
    Logic for Apple watch please

    …and a microscope

    Is there an app for that…?

    No, but you can use a sharp needle to press the buttons 😄

    😂

    These are not genuine Apple but are much cheaper and are MFI certified

    Alternatively there’s hedgehogs but might be a bit harder to find

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • CrabmanCrabman

    @Danny_Mammy said:
    don't you need to physically have the device in order to introduce this weakness, you can't do this remotely.

    Thats wrong from all i have read.

  • SevenSystemsSevenSystems

    @supadom said:

    @michael_m said:

    @SevenSystems said:

    @michael_m said:

    @supadom said:

    @mojozart said:
    I'm reminded of a long 2018 thread, to which some deleted user responded:

    Only Apple watch is save (more or less).
    Logic for Apple watch please

    …and a microscope

    Is there an app for that…?

    No, but you can use a sharp needle to press the buttons 😄

    😂

    These are not genuine Apple but are much cheaper and are MFI certified

    Alternatively there’s hedgehogs but might be a bit harder to find

    😄

  • SevenSystemsSevenSystems

    @tja said:
    I would be curious, if the exploit can also be used by website code, like Java or JavaScript.

    If this is a timing attack, which it seems to be, then the answer is probably "no", as they've crippled anything in Javascript that can provide exact timing back when Meltdown / Spectre were discovered (that's also why you now have the same timing problems in Web Audio based DAWs that you used to have with timestamp-less CoreMIDI 😂)

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited March 2024
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • SevenSystemsSevenSystems

    Maybe the microcode in Apple's CPUs is developed by the same team that's in charge of the App Store 😃 ("Processing Payment" for free apps, since 2015)

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • SevenSystemsSevenSystems
    edited March 2024

    @tja said:

    @SevenSystems said:
    Maybe the microcode in Apple's CPUs is developed by the same team that's in charge of the App Store 😃 ("Processing Payment" for free apps, since 2015)

    😅😅😅

    Apple likes to keep things simple and don't mess around with them later - yes, this seems to be a pattern!

    And sorry for being an arrogant ass, I know it's a terrible attitude. But things like these just baffle me. I'm a no-name developer just barely hanging on in an Irish backyard, and these companies make literally trillions and can't fix the simplest issues for years.

    (talking about the App Store thing -- the CPU thing is definitely non-simple and Seven Systems would probably mess that up, too 😜)

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