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There aren’t any controllers for synths
The title isn’t true – or is it
There’s a lot of external controllers with knobs switches buttons sliders pads etc, and they connect by wire or radio, and people use them to control synths, so problem solved – or is it
There’s a lot of controllers that are biased toward drum entry
There’s a lot of keyboard controllers of course, with pitch bend and mod
There’s a surprising amount of channel strip controllers, some with motorised fader etc
It looks like a lot of focused aspects are covered, but I’m saying that there’s one big aspect of electronic music that isn’t covered except by bending some of the above into place, and that’s the software synth being controlled by a hardware controller, there’s not much of that, designed purely for that intent alone
I think a big growth area in the future is going to be comprehensive malleable mutatable changeable alterable customisable control surfaces for being a hands-on front end for good software synths, and especially as people are starting to leave eurorack and comprehensive modular behind
What I think would be wanted would be something that allows you to quickly assemble a good control intersection – without the downsides of modular: no distracting patch cables (virtual or real); no tiny cramped knobs; overcome unreadable creative labelling; no huge distances between modules
Bending existing controllers into that is too much of a compromise
An ideal control surface for synth control would have the ability to be taken apart and reassembled into a handful of different configurations (not too many, just enough) so that your knob can be put where you want it, sliders where they should go, and more importantly, labelling where it can be seen (I’d urge the labelling to be active labelling, – each control gets a very readable display which can say whatever you configure it to) – I don’t think it should be too configurable, I suspect there’ll be a sort of best practice for good layouts, and really only a few variants (left-handed versus the other sort; performance vs not so much; etc) but steer away from multiple use controls, aim for knob per function
The problem I don’t have a solution for is patching – we still haven’t got a good paradigm for patching, which is where in my view modular and eurorack totally failed – it didn’t solve patching, it instead persisted with the ‘laboratory prototype haven’t finished designing it yet’ mindset of using patch leads and jacks, which in my view is an indication of utter stupidity and inability to progress – but what is a good user interface replacement for that? Not screen-based touch-based patch cables, that’s just idiotic, in that it’s as bad as real patch leads, but actually worse – matrix patching seems a better way but it isn’t, it hides a lot of information and is tedious to use, you can’ t just look at a matrix and perceive immediately, you’ve got to follow some tight and occluded little mechanism through, like the matrix on the Korg apps, the matrix on iSEM, the pin matrix on iVCS - these all seem ideal at first thought until you actually try using them – there has to be a better way
Comments
Loads of good points there. I agree about virtual patch cables. OK if it's a very simple instrument where there will never be too many cables and everything can be seen clearly, but mostly a sheer nightmare, I don't know how people stand it. And same goes for matrices - OK if they have a small number of points, but things quickly get hard to follow.
Does the Behringer Pro-800 send MIDI CC when turning knobs and flipping switches?
It seems like it can only receive MIDI CC but I'd be interested in facts.
It does
a lot of this will be solve by software ie midi 2.0 .
midi 2.0 will have the DAW, Software synths and midi controllers talk to each other meaning. parameters/identification are instantly recognised. your modular hardware suggestion would fit nicely with midi 2.0.
Thanks. Does it send absolute knob positions whenever slightly turning a knob?
Yes, it sends absolute values. I believe that’s the only mode, no “catch”, “scale” modes or anything similar. I can check if there is some setting in the synthtribe app when I get home, but from the device itself there is no other setting.
That's great!
So we do have a nice controller ☺️
True, it’s even cheaper than some midi controllers. The only thing is that you can’t edit the cc values. Here is a a pdf file I made, with the cc numbers PRO-800 sends and responds to
Excellent!
Thanks a lot.
AR has a huge potential to be a game changer here because it can do some important things, it can track the state of an object (e.g. a knob and/or your hands), and it can overlay an UI on top of a surface (e.g. cardboard).
This means that software synths could become real in a way where you would punch a bunch of knobs through the cardboard into the right positions basically becoming encoders, and position the UI of a synth on top of that cardboard having both blend into a virtual synth with analog haptics.
I think this is a case where different things suit different people, so there’s never going to be a “right” answer or perfect solution.
I don’t have any hardware controllers, though I’ve been considering one with some knobs for a while. But all that mapping is a creativity killer for me, I start losing the will to live (NB I’ve only done it with software controllers so far). I suspect I’d end up with the thing gathering dust because I really can’t be bothered with all that faffing about. That said, I like the tactile nature of using hardware, hence the attraction of physical knobs.
On the patching thing, I’m the exact opposite! I like patch cables. And I like the way you can get to a point where you lose track of what’s doing what, it’s part of the fun! Much as I love iVCS3 the matrix is a PITA for me, I end up tracing lines with my finger to see how to set the pins to make the connections. And I don’t take to the Drambo approach of automating connections and having to jump through hoops to make them differently. On this last point I’m happy to concede that I haven’t played with it much, but that’s partly because I find it opaque in a way I don’t with MiRack for example. As for the patching matrices in some fixed architecture synths: no. Just no, I really don’t like working with those at all. YMMV, obviously.
That said, for performance I am looking forward to the upcoming MiRack control surface thing, that lets you “steal” controls from modules and lay them out so at the things you might want to twiddle are in one place on screen. In fact my initial thought on reading the start of your post was that the MiRack control surface might be just the thing, but maybe not on reading the whole thing.
Which is a rather long winded way of reinforcing my point that nothing will suit everyone, one person’s nightmare interface is another person’s heaven, and maybe just gravitating to the things that you feel comfortable using is the way forward. Choose the instruments you find inspiring, and the interface will be an integral part of that choice.
One point I would quibble with is your statement about people leaving Eurorack and modular behind - my impression is the contrary, it’s growing. Even Jakob Haq is building (literally, with a soldering iron etc) a Eurorack setup. He’s obviously got past his phobia about patch cables now!
True - Eurorack gas gotten more popular in recent years. Frankly I'd be more worried about the growth of iOS music in coming years than about Eurorack or hardware!
The exact fun for me with Eurorack as a non musician lies in patching this to that and twiddling or knob or two, with no clear idea of what will happen - then surprising myself with the result.
Though in the world according to Irena, I could imagine some kind of complementary physical control surface composed of magnetic identical sized blocks sitting on a metal base plate ‘brain’ fitted with CV, Gate, USB and MIDI ports.. The blocks, with RFID internals identifying their specific functions and OLED scribble strips - a block with sliders, a block with knobs, a block with an XY pad, a block with sprung pitch benders, a joystick, or a grid of finger drum pads - could be freely arranged individually or in multiples on the metal brain, and toggle switches on the blocks would allow you to send the control messages to any combo of the brain outs, to mix and match any fixed combo of hardware connections you wanted. In this way, you could set up your own bespoke control surface for any connected hardware or software device, and develop muscle memory for it too.
I can but dream…
On Mod Wiggler (admittedly I don’t ever stray outside the ‘General gear’ section, for me that is the entirety of Mod Wiggler, always, ever) there’s a lot of shared sentiment of people ‘escaping’ from their Eurorack phase, leaving it behind, either to go software only or to go desktop (eg Intellijel Cascade and the like as a compromise, at least their invested patch leads still have a use)
I’d happily go fully software only if…
• The software synth wasn’t likely to disappear or become rental, although ultimately the only software synths I’d truly ‘own’ are those which I can recompile myself I suppose, so truly maybe the open source ones are the lowest long term risk of vanishing
• The software synth could easily be attached to a hardware knob field which sort of had the same sensibility as the software one – and having thought about this a lot I don’t think it needs an entirely unique or changed layout per software synth, I’m of the opinion that there’s a big ‘generality’ in the middle where a software synth controller can mostly, about 80%, hit almost all the synths in some meaningful way without even lifting a finger to customise at all – but I think there’s definitely the need to do some amount of customisation to get the remaining corners of the 20%
It’s not enough to just have a row of knobs and sliders though – I think the biggest aspect to all of this is the dynamic display for each control – given that it sort of doesn’t matter where the control is in relation to other controls, just as long as it’s always totally apparent what it is and what it does and how it responds, so good visible obvious displaying beats layouts (and the original synths might not have had well thought out layouts either, most can be improved)
That’s probably the way it has to work – mirrors, magnets, string and pulleys
Maybe like a cutting mat with a grid (or an actual cutting mat) on top of which you place the blocks (maybe not identically sized but in unit sizes) next to each other and they ‘hook up’ in the same way that two Roli blocks connect to each other (they’re magnetic and have sort of pogo-pin connectors on several side faces) then you could just grab them and place them in the layout you want, no computer editing, no time wasting, just pick them up and put them next to each other – they don’t even need to ‘know’ what they’re next to, it doesn’t matter, as long as they all connect through ultimately
One thing’s for sure – I don’t like knobs on the iPad screen – I want real ones
The app with expensive knobs that you place on the screen from years ago was an interesting experiment, shame the knobs were expensive (although couldn’t it also work with just a bit of fruit or a rubber or a hamster or a bottle top) – that direction of experimentation might yet reap some outcome that people like, but really it isn’t the same, a knob has firmness, rigidity, girth, a shaft on top of which is a cap or bushing that you can manipulate with fingers, and it has resistance or stiffness to the turn – even in other equipment the ‘feel’ dictates a lot about quality (even if that relationship is faked) – a camera with good-feeling controls convinces the owner that their tool is high quality – and an iPad screen knob never does that for me
So instead of "there are no controllers for synths", it's really "there are no modular hardware controllers for softsynths."
But, already, you can google 'modular midi controller' and you'll come up with some of the current attempts at . . . modular midi controllers. Here's a quick selection:
https://intech.studio/
https://midi.org/monogram-creative-console-a-modular-midi-controller
https://lividinstruments.com/news/elements-modular-midi-control-system/
https://ask.video/article/audio-hardware/review-palette-a-modular-midi-controller
https://special-waves.com/
I'm not sure this is, or ever will be, a big market. I assume the people who have devoted time, effort, money in developing these things have spent more time than most people in figuring how to best make them. But maybe there are some ideas on how to make this stuff better.
I expect the main impediment is expense, that people aren't willing to pay enough for this stuff to make it profitable. And probably also that they're somewhat kludgy and difficult to use. And probably that they don't really offer much benefit over more mainstream solutions.
Then again, I can see this kind of controller being fun. And that's really what it's all about.
as an example of the thinking, I keep looking at things like the Uno Synth ProX and then remembering that, wait, I've got far more than I can count of the same sort of capability synths already here on the iPad
…but what stops me from gravitating toward those? It’s the want of the desktoppy knobby tactiley visible aspect of a tabletop synth, but really, all I need is not a synth, just a tabletop thing I can use on all of my iPad synths (or MacBook synths etc) with considerably more coherence than just some uncommitted 'drum pad with some knobs and sliders' type of product – if some of those had big visible dynamic displays on each control maybe they'd mate better with software synths, but they're clearly not designed with that in mind, they're to one side of that
Another synth that makes a great MIDI controller is the Arturia MicroFreak.
You can disable "Local mode", and have the synth engine's MIDI detached from the controls and the keyboard. Now you have a great MIDI controller with familiar controls (Filter, Envelope....) for many hard and software synths. You can still control the MicroFreak's synth by simply looping the MIDI output back into the synthesizer.
This makes "The Freak" a great companion for a fairly small portable setup: MicroFreak, iPad and a G1ON effects pedal for the MicroFreak and to mix the signal with the iPad output.
That’s the MicroFreak and the Pro 800 so far – maybe we need another topic (someone else?) with a list of ‘synths that are also good soft synth controllers’
The modal argon 8x is also a good synth controller since all the knobs send midi cc information. The keyboard is also good. As a bonus it’s got a nice arp and a decent sequencer as well.
I suppose both the argon 8x, 8m and the cobalt equivalents will behave the same.
Novation X Station is a synth but also can be used as a controller.
It’s also an audio/midi usb interface.
Novation circuit mono station makes a great controller too — with awesome sequencer.
They’re not crazy expensive used either. (They’re not longer being made). It’s a killer synth too.
I’m quite happy with my Novation XL mkii’s, Launchpad X and Korg NanoKontrol
with over 250 CC messages and program control changes mapped (some being modulated with LFO’s)
for my current project.
I’ve got them controlling
2 mono semi modular synths
2 hybrid synths using dRambo oscillators, Teenage Engineering filters and 2 ext VCA’s via midi to CV
1 Korg Volca Beats
1 Korg Volca drum courtesy of @sigma79
1 Korg NTS-1
8 channels on the JV-1010 sound module
4 channels of virtual string instruments
The Behringer Poly 800 does look interesting however I’m waiting for the Behringer BRC32.
I've heard of Korg Minilogue being used as a soft synth controller. I think just about all of its knobs map to midi cc. I think people like it because it's a pretty simple synth and you can map the generic knobs (e.g., osc, filter, envelopes) to modulate same functions on soft synths, so a good generic synth controller.
Faderfox ec4 or Soundforce controllers
Yeah. I’ve used my Minilogue that way a little. One day I’ll get my study arranged so that it can be out and ready, and then I plan to do that more.
I also figure I’ll get a Sound Force controller at some point, but I’m hoping to hold out until they do ones with robust MIDI 2 support.
The Deepmind 12 doubles as an amazing controller. Sends pitch/mod wheels, aftertouch, arp, and has TONS of sliders which all send CC info.
I use it all the time as a controller for my ipadOS synths, mainly Drambo. (of course only when sitting at my desk. The tank of a synth that the DM12 is, it’s not exactly something you can curl up on the couch with.) I do have a Windows PC with Ableton and all kinds of soft synths/vsts (and reaper, and etc etc ) but then again, the idea of the iPad was to break free from the desktop.
Edit: I just thought of it as I was typing this, the DM12 has this 32 step “control sequencer” (rather than your typical note sequencer) which might be fun to use as a control for other things. I’ve never tried this after owning the DM12 for over 4 years now, but I feel like I know how to use it already just thinking about it. (I think I’ve learned a lot more about synthesis, MIDI, and music production in general in that 4 year timeframe… especially hanging around here.)
Faders/sliders for days, and IMHO, a quite decent keybed.
Nice iPad stand
Thanks! It’s modular ☺️