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GeoShred -how to control it with standard midi controller?
Dear all,
Possibly an old topic/question.
I plumped for purchasing various instruments getting within GeoShred. Clarinets for instance.
Sounds amazing played onscreen.
At that moment, if I attempt to tap midi keys (basic m-audio midi controller keyboard), GeoShred flash a message about how it was designed for mpe controllers.
It continues by saying that Audio Modelling are 'releasing their own swam apps soon'.
-my end goal, controlling GeoShred with my basic midi keyboard. -possible?
If so, are there any guides on how to set that up?
Many thanks! 🙏🏻
Comments
I believe that, in MPE, MIDI channel 1 is the "control" channel, reserved for common control messages. Channels 2 and higher are the note channels. Remember, an MPE note also includes Pitch Bend, Channel Aftertouch, and Brightness (CC74). When sent on a note channel, these messages affect only the note being played on that channel. So, you need to send notes on a channel other then 1 for GeoShred to play them.
I can’t imagine the number of people who run into this and just move on to other apps. Seems like an odd issue to leave in there without simple in-app advice. But yes, just set your midi controller to a different channel. Don’t think I can do this with my NI controller and iPad, so use my minilab for Geoshred.
Just to add to this a bit… it’s only the separately purchasable Geoxxx instruments that need to be on channel 2 or above.
All of Tthe built in guitars etc and the separately purchasable Naada instruments are OK on channel 1.
Also if your M-audio keyboard can’t be changed from channel 1 there are lots of apps that can do that on the iPad e.g. Mosaic, StreamByter, MIDI Messenger etc.
Ok nice. Thanks!
So, to set much controller to a different channel.. this is something you do within GeoShred, is that right?
also, can it work like this?: control GeoShred sounds from within the UI of SWAM? (I have a few SWAM apps). How is that achieved? (perhaps I should make a separate post)
You may be able to set your physical controller to output to a different channel.
If not then you need an app between the controller and GeoShred. You can’t change it in GeoShred itself.
One such app is StreamByter which is free.
So you would have your controller sending on channel 1 as the input to StreamByter.
In StreamByter you need a line of code, don’t worry it’s as simple as ‘X0 = X1’. This maps Channel 1 to channel 2.
Then you have StreamByter (now outputting on channel 2) as the input to GeoShred.
You can use the SWAM UI Keyboard to play Geoshred (I’d never thought of it before but just tried and it works)
Load your SWAM instrument as a MIDI instrument.
I can’t see a way of changing the channel in SWAM so again you will have to remap the channel to 2 using StreamByter.
Point StreamByter at GeoShred.
I’m not sure what DAW you are using. The following is how it’s setup in AUM…
Thank you Tony - that’s a lot simpler than my workarounds!
Hi there all, 🖐🏼
Greatful for the help.
In the end, I used your approach @GeoTony , (as I do use AUM routinely and I've now set up a State and saved it for future use.
I had trouble at first, but I think this was because: I added SWAM on strip 1, but added it as an AUM instrument. Once I noticed you'd added a MIDI in that strip (not AUM instrument), things began working.
(before I had it correct, I had all kinds of garbled sound results coming out!)
I would suppose using StreamByter worked for me (as it appears to be working correctly) (the chan change trick)
I don't have much experience of setting up chains, or ins n outs this way. The way I normally enable sound is by just using the config button on AUM's on-screen keyboard.
Anyway, so I've got the basic sounds playing ok (Akai MPKIII midi controller controlling GeoShred flute/clarinet)
..I have 1 further goal, and that's to be able to use the 4-way joystick controller on my Akai to control vibrato and expression.
I set these up successfully in SWAM, but, is it possible to have the joystick control parameters of GeoShred? (ie Vibrato Amount, and Amp/Volume)
--hopefully that made sense!
I've posted a short video to explain visually 👍🏻👍🏻
Thanks once again folks 🙏🏻
This is all very clever stuff 😊
hi @SkillipEvolver , glad things are working out 😊
Yes you can control any GeoShred parameter from another hardware or software controller.
The trick is knowing which CC GeoShred is expecting so that you can send the correct values. If you open the menu I.e the three dots top left. Then
Control Surface
Click on (e.g. the Volume Control)
Click on MIDI
You will see that GS is expecting this to be controlled by CC 7 (which is the standard)
If you do the same for Vibrato Amount you will see that it expecting CC 107.
Do Back, Close, Close to come out of this.
If you want to use e.g. the SWAM Trumpet playing surface to control GS then assuming you have defined SWAM as the input to GS in AUM the volume should just work because both are using the standard CC 7. Having said that there looks (to me) like a bug in SWAM in that it is sending really strange values (you can monitor these in StreamByter by clicking the magnifying glass icon) that jump all over the place causing the volume in GS or indeed in AUM if you map it to the AUM volume to jump all over the place as well.
To use SWAM for the Vibrato I mapped Vibrato Depth in SWAM to CC 107 (its not mapped to anything by default) and then if you move your finger up the SWAM keyboard it increases the vibrato on GS.
For your external controller you need to either make sure it is sending CC messages of the correct value to GS or, if you can’t change them on the controller, you can change GS to accept the values being sent.
If the above doesn’t make sense or you can’t get it to work let me know and I can do a video for you. All the best.
@GeoTony , I believe there is no reason to load StreamByter in an AUM audio channel, as in your screenshot. You can add it to a MIDI lane, even the same one as the SWAM instrument. Entries in a MIDI lane are not automatically connected, though. You use the side menu, as shown in your screenshot, to make the connections; or you can use the MIDI routing matrix.
And it works loaded in a midi slot in Logic.
I'm almost there thanks to your help guys.
I've managed to get the joystick on the Akai to adjust Amp Volume (Y) and Vibrato (X) of GeoShred
..after a little while of trying it out I can say, it's pretty good?
in fact it's great 👍🏻 but I'd like to try and improve the stick control if I can somehow.
To explain, when the stick is at zero (dead centre), the volume (what I hear) appears to be pretty much quiet/silent (barely audible).
As I push the stick north, bound increases as you'd expect. However there is a noticeable jump in volume as I push it upwards.
The stick goes from 0 to 127.
Ideally, the volume would climb at equal increments throughout the travel of 0-127
However, it seems to go more like:
0-8 (vol steady increases)..
then at 9 (roughly) going upwards... there is a sudden volume jump (getting louder)
ie. not smooth as would be optimal.
--The stick itself I believe to be in good working condition (using this same setup within SWAM (Y axis to adjust Expression), the vol increase is smooth as you'd like.
.. I'm wondering if there's any workarounds..
Once again, very grateful for your insights guys. This is super tech! 😎
Is there any Control Surface within GeoShred to change the octave?
(I've fired up 3 instances of GeoShred in AUM, and was trying to see if it's possible that each instrument
(clarinet, cello, oboe), can play a different octave ?
to elaborate: on the GeoShred UO, there are visible buttons < and > to do with octave..
but these only shift the UI playing area below, to let you play different octaves on the screen, -it's not the same as actually changing the octave.
Attempting to set each instrument as a different octave:
Hi @SkillipEvolver…
Re the first video I.e. sudden volume increase. I’m not quite sure if you are referring to Expression which is what you have on the control surface or Volume which is a different thing. Also your controller is sending on CC #82 so I’m not sure what this is mapped to.
The generic answer is yes you can do what you want so if you go to the Control Surface again, click on the control you want to modify e.g. Expression, Click on Expression (picture of a clarinet to the left of it), Click on Curve.
This shows the curve of how input values are mapped to output values. If you change it so something like the one below it will reduce the maximum output and should smooth the process. You can also adjust a number of other values on this same dialogue.
Re the second I’m not sure why you need to do this . Your external controller will play notes above and below what is shown on the GS screen I.e. Gs is not controlling the range.
You can implement different transposition for different instruments played from the same controller in AUM. Tap on the snake icon in the instrument title bar.
Yes @uncledave is spot on… I misunderstood… ignore my comment re octaves / range 🫣
Hi all,
Thanks once again for the tips.
Yeah, just to clarify, the reason I want to play different octaves is just to be able to play multiple instruments at once but with some complimentary pitches.
I will investigate the snake option, thank you!
The other thing to mention, my AKAI mk111 is only small, maybe 25keys? So rather than hopping up and down octaves using the hardware buttons on the unit, it was just something to make it a bit easier. Mainly it’s about the sound compliment 👍🏼
Thanks @GeoTony , those tips regarding volume definitely look like they’ll take me in the right direction.
I’ll have to try all this out soon.
-I currently have a lot of drama as I’ve lost my mobile, no end of hassle, it’s become a priority.
Thanks.
Hello again, the ‘snake option’ and changing the Transpose values suggested by @uncledave is definitely the way to go if you want to play say three different instruments at the same time in three different octaves.
But… I like a challenge so here is a way of changing the octave being played by an external keyboard via a control on the GeoShred control surface…
Bravo! 👏🏼👏🏼
Hey folks, sorry to be a pain..
I saved all this config as a SESSION within AUM and thought everything was cool, and it was! At the time…
However, opening it up today , I couldn’t get sound coming out of the primary instrument, the. SWAM trumpet.
I’ve recorded a quick video of the config, can anyone point out what’s going wrong?
Hi. You have inexplicably placed the trumpet in a MIDI lane, which cannot have an audio output. It should be in an Audio channel, like all the Geoshred instruments. Notice that each Audio channel ends with connection to the speakers.
And StreamByter should not be in an Audio channel, since it is just a MIDI effect. You should load it in a MIDI lane.
Also, I'm not sure why your video began with Saving a Session, rather than restoring the previous session. Restore is under the Files icon in the AUM hamburger menu.
Other hints:
Yep, as @uncledave says, the SWAM in the MIDI lane is the main problem.
Starting with GeoShred 7 all the GeoSWAM and Naada Models can be controlled from a conventional MIDI Controller or a breath/wind controller. You will need to provide a controller for the primary expression control. In MPE this is Channel Pressure. However for a Conventional MIDI Controller or Wind Controller this can be CC-2. If you have a foot pedal it can be CC-4. There are special MIDI Configurations that you can use to support this.
Note however with a conventional MIDI controller pitch fluidity is difficult to perform.
Just an observation that the latest GeoShred update from a few days ago has made all of the Naada instruments fully polyphonic.
Previously they were duophonic.
Understood 👍🏻
That's a welcome update to read about.
Thanks to the team for implementing this and for mentioning it.
I suppose very cool though.
Looking forward to trying it out.
-soon as I can get my iPad fixed (again!)
Wow. Cello, violin, and viola choirs with expression per voice--this is huge. Can't wait to get a new ipad and start playing with this.
Tony, thanks for pointing out that for the Naada Instruments, the Duophonic button is now Polyphonic.
In the latest bug fix release we consolidated all the single channel MIDI configurations into a single MIDI Configuration called "Single Channel". With this MIDI configuration you can use a single channel controller to perform GeoSWAM or Naada Instruments and expression can come from CC-2 (Breath), CC-4 (Foot Controller) or CC-11 (Expression).