AUM-like AUv3 for Loopy Pro

Vmusic

Hi,
I want a "container" AUv3 that can be put into, or run in Loopy Pro as a plugin, that functions to "run" other plugins. Another way to put it is - to be able to sort of run AUM, as a plugin in Loopy Pro, and then in AUM I have an audio channel say with 3 other AUV3 plugins. Use AUM as a sort of "container" plugin.

Is there anything like this?

RATIONALE ONE: Some fx plugins don't have wet/dry mix. Unlike AUM, Loopy Pro doesn't have the built in side mixer for the fx plugin

RATIONALE TWO: Some fx plugins change the tone (EQ) of the sound. So I typically use the plugin with an EQ plugin after it to readjust or bring back the tone to what it was, or close to what it was - pre fx. SoooOOOOoooo - I use and "consider" TWO plugins (the fx itself and the EQ after it)..... as ONE plugin, to get the sound I want I always use both plugins together.

Is there anything (a "container" or channel strip that supports other AUv3 plugins) out there?

Thanks
Alex

Gavinski

Not possible. An AUv3 host cannot host another AUv3 host, unfortunately

@Vmusic said:
Hi,
I want a "container" AUv3 that can be put into, or run in Loopy Pro as a plugin, that functions to "run" other plugins. Another way to put it is - to be able to sort of run AUM, as a plugin in Loopy Pro, and then in AUM I have an audio channel say with 3 other AUV3 plugins. Use AUM as a sort of "container" plugin.

Is there anything like this?

RATIONALE ONE: Some fx plugins don't have wet/dry mix. Unlike AUM, Loopy Pro doesn't have the built in side mixer for the fx plugin

RATIONALE TWO: Some fx plugins change the tone (EQ) of the sound. So I typically use the plugin with an EQ plugin after it to readjust or bring back the tone to what it was, or close to what it was - pre fx. SoooOOOOoooo - I use and "consider" TWO plugins (the fx itself and the EQ after it)..... as ONE plugin, to get the sound I want I always use both plugins together.

Is there anything (a "container" or channel strip that supports other AUv3 plugins) out there?

Thanks
Alex

FordTimeLord

Auv3s can’t host other auv3s unfortunately. You could load AUM as Inter-App Audio inside loopy pro though

wim

Is there anything (a "container" or channel strip that supports other AUv3 plugins) out there?

As mentioned such an AUv3 host plugin isn't possible.

However you can do what you want because Loopy Pro and AUM both support Inter-App Audio:

1. Be sure that Settings > System Settings > Play in Background is enabled in Loopy Pro
2. Start AUM first then ...
3. ... in Loopy Pro add Inter-App Audio Input > AUM (Port 1)
4. Add Inter-App Audio Input > AUM (Port 2). Repeat for as may AUM channels as you need.
5. In AUM, tap the output for a channel > IAA / Audiobus Output > IAA Output 1
6. Tap the output for another channel > IAA / Audiobus Output > IAA Output 2. Repeat for all outputs.

wim

If AUM were ever to support split screen, then you would be able to run both apps side by side on an iPad.

wim

Note: You won't be able to save and restore a session in Loopy with this setup without some work, as Inter-App audio doesn't support state-saving.

To get back to where you left off, you would have to:

1. First have saved the AUM Session and the Loopy Pro session.
2. Shut down both apps.
3. Start AUM but don't load the session yet.
4. Say a short prayer to and/or perform a sacrifice or suitable ritual dance, etc. to the gods of Audio
5. Start Loopy and load the session if needed.
6. Load the AUM session.
7. Clean up with any Reloads, Replacing channel outputs, etc.
8. Do not throw your iPad through the window.

That's just the reality of dealing with Inter-App Audio. There is nothing that can be done to improve it.

wim

Here's what might be a better way - though it's sort of turning the original idea on its head. It has the advantage of fully supporting state saving in AUM session but the possible disadvantage of not being able to load any plugins in Loopy Pro. All plugins will need to be hosted in AUM.

1. Open AUM and add Loopy Pro AUv3 as an FX in an AUM audio channel.
2. Add another audio channel and add Multi-bus Audio Unit Instance > Loopy Pro AU
   • Loopy will be added with In 2 and Out 2 by default
3. Add other audio channels and add additional Multi-bus Audio Unit Instaces of Loopy Pro.
4. Tap any of the Loopy icons to open the plugin. If you added them correctly as Multi-bus instances, they'll all be the same instance.
5. There will be an audio input for the original instance. You will need to add additional inputs for the other channels added above.
   • Tap the plus sign then Add Audio Input
   • Inputs will default to the next numbered input and you should see that at the bottom of the channel.

uncledave

@wim . This is very devious. You still have access to all Loopy Pro's looping capabilities, with FX and audio routing handled in AUM, as the overall host.

ExAsperis99

@wim said:
Here's what might be a better way - though it's sort of turning the original idea on its head. It has the advantage of fully supporting state saving in AUM session but the possible disadvantage of not being able to load any plugins in Loopy Pro. All plugins will need to be hosted in AUM.

1. Open AUM and add Loopy Pro AUv3 as an FX in an AUM audio channel.
2. Add another audio channel and add Multi-bus Audio Unit Instance > Loopy Pro AU
   • Loopy will be added with In 2 and Out 2 by default
3. Add other audio channels and add additional Multi-bus Audio Unit Instaces of Loopy Pro.
4. Tap any of the Loopy icons to open the plugin. If you added them correctly as Multi-bus instances, they'll all be the same instance.
5. There will be an audio input for the original instance. You will need to add additional inputs for the other channels added above.
   • Tap the plus sign then Add Audio Input
   • Inputs will default to the next numbered input and you should see that at the bottom of the channel.
   

wim

@uncledave said:
@wim . This is very devious. You still have access to all Loopy Pro's looping capabilities, with FX and audio routing handled in AUM, as the overall host.

And full state saving too. 😎

The drawback is leveraging Loopy's excellent midi and widget control over plugins gets significantly more complicated if you can't host things directly in Loopy. You're stuck with just midi CC's out to AUM's midi control system.

espiegel123

@Vmusic : are you sure you can’t handle things with Loopy’s sends and buses?

ahallam

@wim I am in awe. Well crafted.

wim

@espiegel123 said:
@Vmusic : are you sure you can’t handle things with Loopy’s sends and buses?

Indeed. At first I thought "Rationale One" was an issue, but after thinking it through I don't see why it would be. "Rationale 2" didn't seem to be any different in either host, so I don't understand that one at all.

Vmusic

Hi Everyone,
My rebuttal..... can I get this to work in LP? As I often say in the tech world "you can write enough code to get about anything to work, but should you?" [aka is the juice worth the squeeze?]
I say no. "if" - there was a AUv3 "container" plugin, it would be 10x easier to use it, and to put my delay and "make up" EQ to readjust the tone in the container......vs.......... putting them into one, or more than one, chain or audio bus in LP, and then have to set actions for both of them in the UI widgets. Especially if I wanted to use this "delay" which is a combination of 2 plugins, in yet another audio bus.... then the benefit and ease of use, of the container grows.
Same thing for RATIONALE ONE. Yes, I can route some signal to a plugin which doesn't have a wet/dry mix, and then send some signal to a clean audio bus; but again this is a royal pain here.

LP still doesn't allow you to route the signal from the output or bottom of an audio bus to another audio bus - like AUM has /supports.

SOoooooOOooOOo...... you can do "work-arounds" for these issues, but if there were a contain AUv3, and I realize there is not, but it would make my life much easier.

I greatly appreciate the explanations above, and the Clint Eastwood thing is priceless, of course!!!
AJ

Shabudua

@Vmusic said:

LP still doesn't allow you to route the signal from the output or bottom of an audio bus to another audio bus - like AUM has /supports.

FWIW, this is listed as being “in progress” on the Loopy Pro feature roadmap…so there is hope 😁

ExAsperis99

@espiegel123 said:
@Vmusic : are you sure you can’t handle things with Loopy’s sends and buses?

Probably! But I find few environments as inspiring as AUM.

It's very easy to load up a synth and a four-bar midi clip in Atom and get something running. Then add an audio track and play some bass. But — wait, let's choose a different synth. And maybe a chorus on the bass? No, that's cheesy. Delay? Oooh, weirdly cool. Maybe add a piano to double up that — oh, wait! What if...

Etc.

But then I would like to move this party elsewhere to finish the song. I could send the stems to Cubasis, but then to modify anything, I'd have to either go back to the synth in AUM or copy the instrument. (Sending each AUM channel to a Cubasis channel is taxing on the CPU and has given me sync issues, but I haven't really put in the hours to make it work.

This template from @wim looks very flexible to me.
I have found that trying to start in Loopy or Cubasis is not intuitive, but maybe that's just what I need to do.

espiegel123

@ExAsperis99 said:

@espiegel123 said:
@Vmusic : are you sure you can’t handle things with Loopy’s sends and buses?

Probably! But I find few environments as inspiring as AUM.

It's very easy to load up a synth and a four-bar midi clip in Atom and get something running. Then add an audio track and play some bass. But — wait, let's choose a different synth. And maybe a chorus on the bass? No, that's cheesy. Delay? Oooh, weirdly cool. Maybe add a piano to double up that — oh, wait! What if...

Etc.

But then I would like to move this party elsewhere to finish the song. I could send the stems to Cubasis, but then to modify anything, I'd have to either go back to the synth in AUM or copy the instrument. (Sending each AUM channel to a Cubasis channel is taxing on the CPU and has given me sync issues, but I haven't really put in the hours to make it work.

This template from @wim looks very flexible to me.
I have found that trying to start in Loopy or Cubasis is not intuitive, but maybe that's just what I need to do.

I suspect that with a little invested time you might find Loopy Pro as simple and flexible as AUM though there are some areas (multi-in/out AU support, bus-to-bus routing, extensive built-in midi filtering) where Loopy is playing catch-up. On the other hand, Loopy has the ability to create custom work surfaces (want a button or dial to switch several AU presets or parameter settings at once, record and immediately play back your loops or stems.

ExAsperis99

Loopy is what I need for this kind of workflow, I know that. But as lovely as the interface is, I haven't found a way in. This isn't the place for this discussion, though.

cokomairena

@wim said:
If AUM were ever to support split screen, then you would be able to run both apps side by side on an iPad.

Dev is against

Ben

I’m likely missing something but wouldn’t it simplify things to have 1 instance of AUM (Port 1) in LP and in AUM send all channels to a mix bus output (A) with a master channel with bus A as input and LP as the output?
This allows for individual control of all instruments etc in AUM and still gives you control of color group sliders in LP.
Maybe you want the slider controls for each AUM channel accessible in LP?
Sorry if I’m muddying things up but I use it this way and it works great. States saved and all.
@wim you are the man and I’m just learning so I’m sure I’m glossing over something in the OP’s question.

Vmusic

Hi Everyone,
I'm a full-fledged LP user. I have used it for many gigs. My use is as an fx pedalboard for live music. I do not actually any looping (for the time being). While I find it much easier to build presets and switch between presets (where a preset is a collection of AUv3 plugins, and the configuration of these)..... Loopy still has its challenges.
The key tie breaker..... is Loopy Pro's UI and the actions you can set with or tie to the UI widgets.

I have contributed at least 6 feature suggestions on the roadmap. I regularly vote on LP roadmap items.

Waiting..... for some time now; to have key features delivered. Some of these have been mentioned: routing the output of one audio bus to other audio bus, the addition of a step dial that has "scroll through" like a drop down menu does, being able to reorder all the channels..... still waiting.

Thanks for your help
AJ

espiegel123

@Vmusic said:
Hi Everyone,
I'm a full-fledged LP user. I have used it for many gigs. My use is as an fx pedalboard for live music. I do not actually any looping (for the time being). While I find it much easier to build presets and switch between presets (where a preset is a collection of AUv3 plugins, and the configuration of these)..... Loopy still has its challenges.
The key tie breaker..... is Loopy Pro's UI and the actions you can set with or tie to the UI widgets.

I have contributed at least 6 feature suggestions on the roadmap. I regularly vote on LP roadmap items.

Waiting..... for some time now; to have key features delivered. Some of these have been mentioned: routing the output of one audio bus to other audio bus, the addition of a step dial that has "scroll through" like a drop down menu does, being able to reorder all the channels..... still waiting.

Thanks for your help
AJ

Michael has been steadily adding features. So, I hope you aren't implying that the pace of development is insufficient . Some features (like altering the bus architecture to allow buses to send to buses) are not trivial and sometimes require a number of things to be carefully re-done so as not to destabilize things or reduce performance. The list of planned features is huge. All the new features have to be done while also maintaining and updating the overall framework to be performant on a wide range of devices and with a wide range of apps and plugins. Developers of hosts encounter a huge range of OS and plugin issues that they have to workaround...so fine-tuning can be trickier than you imagine.

What do mean about reordering channels? Do you mean mixer channels?