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Is it just me, but iPad apps aren't a bargain anymore..

2

Comments

  • @Darkstring said:
    I just bought Bitwig Studio. Did I NEED it? Nope. Want it? Yes. Will I use it? Also yes. Why did I buy it now, instead of continuing with FLS? 100% because of price. 50% off is too compelling.

    Well, it is an absolutely amazing DAW, so you won't regret it.

  • @HolyMoses said:

    @Gratouilli said:
    What wrote @Gavinski is what I think exactly.

    I've also spent (way too) _many euros on apps I barely or don't even use… and one day, I decided to jump on the FF bundle for 100 euros (or so) which was, at that time, an absolute fortune but I really don't regret this choose
    Since then, I've _(more than)
    drasticaly reduced my purchases and when I decide to buy an app, I'm also happy to pay a more faire price.

    Also, what @tja said is true, Michael has found a very fair system 👍🏻

    I still haven't decide to go the Logic for iPad way, I've only used my free period, but I'm "afraid" that the 50€/year Apple are asking for, which seems a real bargain for what it has to offer_ (great FX, great synth, great lot of features)_, may one day "kill" everything… 🥴

    No, pretty sure that the subscription price on Logic Pro for iPad will getting pretty low for a long time.
    Why? Apples business rely on hardware, not software - they want us to buy iPhones iPads and Macs to run their software on…

    Hold in mind that Garageband has been for free to all users last ten years, pretty good move.

    (And GarageBand on desktop/macOS has been around for “free” a lot longer… since 2004.)

  • If the subscription price on Logic ever goes down, it will be time to worry about the long-term viability of the product. I'm still somewhat tempted by the Bitwig deal because I always want to have a place to go if Logic becomes unviable (I'm tempted by Ableton for the same reason). Anyway, I'm glad to see developers continuing to explore ways of making a decent return on their investment of time and effort, even if that just means charging a higher price. The community loses when developers get burned out on too much effort for too little return.

  • Thing is a few people bright up axon 3 - audio damage crushed it with the product, price and port. On top of that, it was $4 on intro. So the bigger devs definitely should get support on rollout if prices are like that. Cubasis should also be a must have to anyone not committed to Logic for iPad subscription.

    and the indie devs should get support if a product does what you need and doesn’t exist elsewhere (ofc if the price is affordable and reasonable)…are some apps worth $30? I don’t know anything about patterning but a lot of people think so. Loopy pro is one of the others I can say is. There are probably others I’m not aware of.

    @mjm1138 said:
    If the subscription price on Logic ever goes down, it will be time to worry about the long-term viability of the product. I'm still somewhat tempted by the Bitwig deal because I always want to have a place to go if Logic becomes unviable (I'm tempted by Ableton for the same reason). Anyway, I'm glad to see developers continuing to explore ways of making a decent return on their investment of time and effort, even if that just means charging a higher price. The community loses when developers get burned out on too much effort for too little return.

    But those are desktop daws - do you mean you want to switch from Logic 11 on desktop to Bitwig or do you mean from iPad to desktop ?

  • @Gavinski said:

    @Antos3345 said:
    Some valid points here. Thanks for your input . A big problem for me and maybe others is, there aren't many demos or ways to try an app, other than trusting your favorite iPad YouTuber . I have bought a few new apps that weren't cheap and wish I didn't .

    Yes - this is really a pity, even a disgrace imo. Apps should have demos, vids are not always the best way to fund out whether you want an app, you often need to try it to see if it clicks, there is no other way. People should not be being forced into purchasing something just to see if they like it. It would be fine if you could always rely on getting a refund request accepted, but that is not the reality of the appstore experience in most locations around the world, few of which favour the consumer in the same way as places like the EU do.

    And one cannot resell an app as you can a desktop license. This has to be a brake on prices, and is entirely Apple's fault.

  • @Darkstring said:

    @rs2000 said:
    My take: Whether you need an app shouldn't depend on its price.

    When you need something, you need it. But with DAWS almost nothing is “needed”, just nice to have.
    Whether people buy things does have to do with price.

    Many indie apps - even from well known authors - have so much jank and UX crap, that a lower price point is what can make people try it out, just for fun. Or apps can be entirely novel, where testing is necessary before figuring out if it fits into a workflow.

    I just bought Bitwig Studio. Did I NEED it? Nope. Want it? Yes. Will I use it? Also yes. Why did I buy it now, instead of continuing with FLS? 100% because of price. 50% off is too compelling.
    Very few bands or hobbyists have the luxury or even desire of limitless spending on tools.

    True. I can build full blown compositions on Groove Rider, Gadget, NS2, Cubasis, Loopy, Drambo, BM3.
    And sometimes it feels good to restrict myself to only one of them and make the best of it.

  • @mjm1138 said:
    If the subscription price on Logic ever goes down, it will be time to worry about the long-term viability of the product. I'm still somewhat tempted by the Bitwig deal because I always want to have a place to go if Logic becomes unviable (I'm tempted by Ableton for the same reason). Anyway, I'm glad to see developers continuing to explore ways of making a decent return on their investment of time and effort, even if that just means charging a higher price. The community loses when developers get burned out on too much effort for too little return.

    Even if Apple completely abandoned Logic Pro on iPad (they won’t) you’d still be able to open those files on desktop.

  • @NeuM said:

    @HolyMoses said:

    @Gratouilli said:
    What wrote @Gavinski is what I think exactly.

    I've also spent (way too) _many euros on apps I barely or don't even use… and one day, I decided to jump on the FF bundle for 100 euros (or so) which was, at that time, an absolute fortune but I really don't regret this choose
    Since then, I've _(more than)
    drasticaly reduced my purchases and when I decide to buy an app, I'm also happy to pay a more faire price.

    Also, what @tja said is true, Michael has found a very fair system 👍🏻

    I still haven't decide to go the Logic for iPad way, I've only used my free period, but I'm "afraid" that the 50€/year Apple are asking for, which seems a real bargain for what it has to offer_ (great FX, great synth, great lot of features)_, may one day "kill" everything… 🥴

    No, pretty sure that the subscription price on Logic Pro for iPad will getting pretty low for a long time.
    Why? Apples business rely on hardware, not software - they want us to buy iPhones iPads and Macs to run their software on…

    Hold in mind that Garageband has been for free to all users last ten years, pretty good move.

    (And GarageBand on desktop/macOS has been around for “free” a lot longer… since 2004.)

    But now we were talking about iPad/iPhone platform - there went Garageband free 2017 - from 2011-2017 it was 7 bucks…

    Citation:

    On March 2, 2011, Apple announced a version of GarageBand for the . It has many features similar to the version. Music can be created using the on-screen instruments, which include keyboards, , a , and various "smart instruments". It also acts as a multitrack recording studio with stomp box effects and guitar amps. Songs can be emailed or sent to an iTunes Library. Additionally, projects can be imported to GarageBand for macOS, where they are further editable. This feature also allows instruments from the iOS platform to be savable to software instrument library on the Mac. However, projects created in the macOS version cannot be opened in the iOS version. The app is compatible with or higher, the third generation or higher, and all versions of the iPad, including the . The app, with all instruments included, was available for $6.99 from the . In 2017, it was made free.

  • I find now that I got an M1 Pro I can finally use the apps I already have in ways I always wanted to (can run many hosts in parallel), so I am less interested in new apps and get more out of revisiting the old ones.

  • @HolyMoses said:

    @NeuM said:

    @HolyMoses said:

    @Gratouilli said:
    What wrote @Gavinski is what I think exactly.

    I've also spent (way too) _many euros on apps I barely or don't even use… and one day, I decided to jump on the FF bundle for 100 euros (or so) which was, at that time, an absolute fortune but I really don't regret this choose
    Since then, I've _(more than)
    drasticaly reduced my purchases and when I decide to buy an app, I'm also happy to pay a more faire price.

    Also, what @tja said is true, Michael has found a very fair system 👍🏻

    I still haven't decide to go the Logic for iPad way, I've only used my free period, but I'm "afraid" that the 50€/year Apple are asking for, which seems a real bargain for what it has to offer_ (great FX, great synth, great lot of features)_, may one day "kill" everything… 🥴

    No, pretty sure that the subscription price on Logic Pro for iPad will getting pretty low for a long time.
    Why? Apples business rely on hardware, not software - they want us to buy iPhones iPads and Macs to run their software on…

    Hold in mind that Garageband has been for free to all users last ten years, pretty good move.

    (And GarageBand on desktop/macOS has been around for “free” a lot longer… since 2004.)

    But now we were talking about iPad/iPhone platform - there went Garageband free 2017 - from 2011-2017 it was 7 bucks…

    Citation:

    On March 2, 2011, Apple announced a version of GarageBand for the . It has many features similar to the version. Music can be created using the on-screen instruments, which include keyboards, , a , and various "smart instruments". It also acts as a multitrack recording studio with stomp box effects and guitar amps. Songs can be emailed or sent to an iTunes Library. Additionally, projects can be imported to GarageBand for macOS, where they are further editable. This feature also allows instruments from the iOS platform to be savable to software instrument library on the Mac. However, projects created in the macOS version cannot be opened in the iOS version. The app is compatible with or higher, the third generation or higher, and all versions of the iPad, including the . The app, with all instruments included, was available for $6.99 from the . In 2017, it was made free.

    I never paid anything for GarageBand, unless I’m completely misremembering. And I’ve had it since the very first iteration.

  • wimwim
    edited May 17

    A way of avoiding resentment when a new, paid version of an app comes out shortly after you purchased it is to view each purchase as a static app and only purchase if you know it will be satisfying as-is. It's only when we buy apps expecting them to constantly evolve over time for free that we get the sense of disappointment when they don't or when a new paid version comes out. This has the added advantage of causing free enhancements to feel like a constant flow of gifts. 😎

    When a new paid version comes out, I remind myself that I was, and can still be, perfectly happy with the old one. Then I repeat the thought process with the new version. FOMO is real, but I try real hard to ignore it.

    Since there are so few demo versions of apps, I try to go in having decided that even if it ends up not being used long-term, I'm reasonably sure I'll get my entertainment value out of it before I set it aside. I also consider the cost of eating out, a movie, parking, and a host of other things that I give little thought to dishing out by comparison. I think of apps as consumables. That some of them end up being lasting tools is a bonus. I can definitely understand how it can be hard for people more focused on acquiring lasting tools though.

    Lastly, I can't help but think of the people and businesses developing these apps. I guess it's because of decades of being involved with the business realities of product development. I wish I could forget all the unavoidable layoffs of fantastic people I saw over the years. I f*cking hated it!! But what can you do when products don't bring in enough to pay people? (Unless you're the government. Then you can just print more money. 🧐)

    I know this runs the risk of sounding like preaching. It's not! I just get so much joy out of this wonderful ecosystem that I feel like sharing why I do. 😎

  • Adding a comment after reading Wims comment:

    Thinking of these as ‘consumables’ is a good idea, even for those of us that like the almost ‘permanent’ nature of hardware, things change and nothing is really permanent. Also not meaning to be patronising, just expressing my own thoughts: as we get older everything seems less permanent. Some hardware lasts no longer than some of the software. Platforms come and go. We like the idea of going back to ‘old stuff’ like games or tech, yet when we do, they often seem less than what we remember. I played Sonic 2 recently; used to love that game, but to be honest it seems boring now.

    Tech changes, we change and I’m at ease now with the apps I use changing or even disappearing

  • edited May 17

    Over the years my buying has changed. I’m more focussed on what I need from an app.
    There are still apps that I think are total bargains for the money. Continua, fractal waves, klevguard, things when on sale.
    But I have no issue buying the baby audio stuff (incidentally their free apps are bargains.) because they fit my sound, my flow and improve my tunes.
    That to me is a bargain. A great product at a price I’m comfortable with and I use a lot. A cheap app I never use isn’t a bargain.

  • edited May 17

    @NeuM said:

    I never paid anything for GarageBand, unless I’m completely misremembering. And I’ve had it since the very first iteration.

    From 2013 it was free with the purchase of a new Mac, and in 2017 it was made completely free on all platforms. It never cost very much. It used to be $5 US on iOS, I don't think it was much more on desktop, maybe $10-15 US.

    ETA: and that was in an era when Logic Studio would set you back $1000, IIRC

  • If I need an app I will get it unless I cannot afford it.

    If u can afford an app but not sure if u need it, u don’t.

    I paid for Pianoteq Stage and GeoShred Pro, not cheap but I need both.

    I paid for Velocity Keyboard and Midi Poly Grid, both cheap but priceless fretboard midi controllers.

    I can afford AUM but didn’t buy it. I just don’t need it.

    Life is short and play music.

  • edited May 18

    I think some of these apps are way under priced and some are way over priced. But hey if you make a product you can make the price too 🤣

    I think i have everything i need right now on my iPad. I just bought a new iPad a couple months ago and when i was setting it up i realized i have so many unused apps. The reason,…. GAS and i wanted to support the developers to keep the ecosystem alive. If a dev that made an app i love makes another app that i might not use everyday, I’ll still get it sometimes just to support and “leave a tip” and have it for later.

    Buttersynth, Mirack, AUM, Loopy, EG Nodes, Hilda, Other dessert cities…. To name a few are really all i need… but it’s still great to call something random up and get something different going. So i buy stuff to have it on hand if i think it’s cool and innovative, and that helps keep the environment alive i hope.

    Basically these apps are cheap af IMO, i couldn’t have access to so many apps if i was a desktop guy. And buying something on desktop that you end up not getting along with is a much bigger hit than any app here

  • This trend in pricing simply means we have attracted the notice of the professional class of developers.
    We have arrived and are getting some of the better tools from companies like FabFilter, Modartt, Apple and other “team crafted” projects.

    For the solo developer, I see the maker or precision hardware modeled FX, DDMF, has decided to price his products based more on the effort involved and less on what the market will bear. We’ll see more of this as the typical “announcement” sales rush starts to recede in volume.

    There’s a great marketing book called “Crossing the Chasm” regarding the lifecycle of a technology and we have definitely hit a mature market phase.

  • edited May 18

    For me Patterning 3 is the most I’ve spent on an app but it’s still 1000 dollars cheaper than Digitakt 2 and can do way may more especially using it in AUM.

  • @McD said:
    This trend in pricing simply means we have attracted the notice of the professional class of developers.
    We have arrived and are getting some of the better tools from companies like FabFilter, Modartt, Apple and other “team crafted” projects.

    For the solo developer, I see the maker or precision hardware modeled FX, DDMF, has decided to price his products based more on the effort involved and less on what the market will bear. We’ll see more of this as the typical “announcement” sales rush starts to recede in volume.

    There’s a great marketing book called “Crossing the Chasm” regarding the lifecycle of a technology and we have definitely hit a mature market phase.

    This.

    / DMfan🇸🇪

  • edited May 18

    I was last night making some beats on Patterning 2 and afterwards I thought to myself that it’s an amazing app. Even if I just bought it last year, it’s worth the update price. It’s one of the best. This one is well worth the work they have put into it. Also the time of beta testing and quality control is amazingly professional. It turns my iPad into an amazing drum machine with perfect sync.

  • edited May 18

    @Gavinski said:
    People should not be being forced into purchasing something just to see if they like it.

    The whole Hollywood movie industry works on that basis... :smiley:

  • edited May 19

    @Tarekith said:

    @Gratouilli said:
    Sorry, english isn't my first language (as you should have noticed 😅)... but it's exactly what I meant : Logic for iPad is, and will surely remain, really cheap for all it offers (imho)... so selling new synth, FX, sequencers, etc... will be more and more challenging.

    I wouldn’t worry too much about that. People have been saying something similar since Apple bought emagic and made Logic $200 including all that massive amount of content that comes with it. There were fears companies like Steinberg or Ableton wouldn’t be able to compete with that crazy low price, and none of those has ever happened.

    Absolutely agree about Logic! Here's some real world data: our sales nearly tripled this week for a few days after the Logic update release.

    The real challenge with iOS music app sales isn't about competing with other apps. It's about getting people to visit the app store in the first place. Whenever a big name like Moog launches a new synth app, our synth app sales tend to double that week too.

    The iOS music ecosystem is like a rising tide – it lifts and elevates everyone when it gets attention.

    It's similar to what Roger Linn said about the LinnStrument: "The challenge isn't about competing with other MPE controllers, it's about making people want MPE controllers in the first place."

  • @AnalogMatthew said:

    @Tarekith said:

    @Gratouilli said:
    Sorry, english isn't my first language (as you should have noticed 😅)... but it's exactly what I meant : Logic for iPad is, and will surely remain, really cheap for all it offers (imho)... so selling new synth, FX, sequencers, etc... will be more and more challenging.

    I wouldn’t worry too much about that. People have been saying something similar since Apple bought emagic and made Logic $200 including all that massive amount of content that comes with it. There were fears companies like Steinberg or Ableton wouldn’t be able to compete with that crazy low price, and none of those has ever happened.

    Absolutely agree about Logic! Here's some real world data: our sales nearly tripled this week for a few days after the Logic update release.

    The real challenge with iOS music app sales isn't about competing with other apps. It's about getting people to visit the app store in the first place. Whenever a big name like Moog launches a new synth app, our synth app sales tend to double that week too.

    The iOS music ecosystem is like a rising tide – it lifts and elevates everyone when it gets attention.

    It's similar to what Roger Linn said about the LinnStrument: "The challenge isn't about competing with other MPE controllers, it's about making people want MPE controllers in the first place."

    That’s a great bit of insight and it makes perfect sense, thanks for sharing that. In a lot of ways the iOS music market is still nascent, though it may not feel that way to those of us who have been making music on iPads and iPhones for years. Having Logic on iPad has somewhat ironically motivated me to spend more on desktop plugins as well as iPad plugins. How many desktop Logic producers are still just discovering everything that’s available on iOS? If enough people come to the platform for the marquee apps, it may create enough volume that even lower-cost plugins can produce a decent return for an indie developer. Here’s hoping!

  • @AnalogMatthew said:

    @Tarekith said:

    @Gratouilli said:
    Sorry, english isn't my first language (as you should have noticed 😅)... but it's exactly what I meant : Logic for iPad is, and will surely remain, really cheap for all it offers (imho)... so selling new synth, FX, sequencers, etc... will be more and more challenging.

    I wouldn’t worry too much about that. People have been saying something similar since Apple bought emagic and made Logic $200 including all that massive amount of content that comes with it. There were fears companies like Steinberg or Ableton wouldn’t be able to compete with that crazy low price, and none of those has ever happened.

    Absolutely agree about Logic! Here's some real world data: our sales nearly tripled this week for a few days after the Logic update release.

    The real challenge with iOS music app sales isn't about competing with other apps. It's about getting people to visit the app store in the first place. Whenever a big name like Moog launches a new synth app, our synth app sales tend to double that week too.

    The iOS music ecosystem is like a rising tide – it lifts and elevates everyone when it gets attention.

    It's similar to what Roger Linn said about the LinnStrument: "The challenge isn't about competing with other MPE controllers, it's about making people want MPE controllers in the first place."

    That's a good news that, as @mjm1138 said, makes perfect sense.

  • I collected more than enough apps over many years so i rarely buy a new one. Hence i don‘t care if it‘s more expensive than back in the days. And if i gonna buy something new, it has to put something really special on the table. Something that‘s not in my arsenal already.

  • @Crabman said:
    I collected more than enough apps over many years so i rarely buy a new one. Hence i don‘t care if it‘s more expensive than back in the days. And if i gonna buy something new, it has to put something really special on the table. Something that‘s not in my arsenal already.

    I could pay more for apps that’s gone abandonware, but, could be released as AUv3, like Propellerheads Thor, Z3ta+, Nave, DrumJam, Figure by Propellerhead - the list can continue…

    Also, when Korg now rerelease their IAP-synths from Korg Gadget, I wouldn’t complain if it was an paid upgrade to iWavestation, iMonoPoly, iOddesy, iMS20…

  • I think they’re still a bargain.

    Inflation adjusted, most apps are Less than I was paying for Commodore 64 games in the late 80s, when I was a kid with a paper round.

    Cubasis on iOS is less than the price on the st in the early 90s.
    If you were to inflation adjust that 90s price, I think you’d clearly see we are getting a cheap deal.

    Truth is early AppStore prices were just silly and unsustainable for music apps.

  • @Crabman said:
    I collected more than enough apps over many years so i rarely buy a new one. Hence i don‘t care if it‘s more expensive than back in the days. And if i gonna buy something new, it has to put something really special on the table.

    I kind of feel the same way. How many synths or drum machines do you really need or actually use once you have bought them?

    I know there are people who quip "you can never have too many synths" but what if the app store had 1,000 synth apps? Or 10,000? Would you feel the need to buy them all? When would you ever get the chance to use them all?

    If all iOS apps were $100 each, like many desktop apps, then how many would we still say we "need"?

  • Think what you can buy these days for £15. Then go and spend the next year getting no where near the end of possibilities in Nambu!

    I’ve spent thousands on iOS music making apps, but the selection is so good now, you could make a nice little set up on iOS for the price of an iPad and next to nothing in apps. A few hundred spent would keep you busy on a desert island for the rest of your days….or until you was eaten by the natives….

  • edited May 23

    @Simon said:

    @Crabman said:
    I collected more than enough apps over many years so i rarely buy a new one. Hence i don‘t care if it‘s more expensive than back in the days. And if i gonna buy something new, it has to put something really special on the table.

    I kind of feel the same way. How many synths or drum machines do you really need or actually use once you have bought them?

    I know there are people who quip "you can never have too many synths" but what if the app store had 1,000 synth apps? Or 10,000? Would you feel the need to buy them all? When would you ever get the chance to use them all?

    If all iOS apps were $100 each, like many desktop apps, then how many would we still say we "need"?

    Let’s face it, we humans are collectors by nature!
    Our genetics force us to collect things, a lot of thing, and, even if we not really need all stuff, it’s good for the human being…

    I know people collecting things as an hobby - one guy that has over 200 guitars, but only use three of them, and, people collecting cars, but almost never drives them.

    So, if it feels OK, buy all the apps you desire and longing for, because the life is to short to hesitate…

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