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When is the music your own?
Interested in how people come to terms with using everything from presets, to loops, to automated sequences, to eventually AI.
I used to like to program my own sounds, but of late I’ve just become lazy and find a suitable sound to tweak.
I used to like to make my drum rhythms from scratch, but now I’m quite ok with tweaking an app preset or even as yesterday, using an ‘as is’ Axon 3 preset!
I used to like programming in or playing badly then altering the midi notes, but now I’m ok with using the extensive range of midi tools and happy accident sequencers to take over parts of the music making process.
I initially baulked at the idea of AI helping with music making, but to be honest, I will most likely just use it and get on with it!
Now, I’m not making music for anything beyond my own pleasure, but for those that make music to share or for profit, how do you feel about using presets, pre-made loops, happy accident sequencers and eventually AI?
Does how we make the music really matter as long as we don’t cross any legal boundaries?
Comments
I feel that it's not so much what you use but how you use presets, loops, sequencers and AI that counts. Your creative vision shines through when you decide what goes where, etc.
Okay, so I think if you generate an AI song based on a text prompt in Udio or Suno and say it's your own, that's not really your creative voice shining through. Generate two or three songs and chop them up into a mashup ala Daft Punk/Justice overtop of some drums? Now you're expressing yourself by making creative decisions of how to chop up an AI generated song and deciding which samples go where.
But this is only my point of view.
I suppose if we gave all the AB Forum members a set of presets, a few drum loops and some sequenced phrases, we would all make quite different music, thanks for your thoughts.
Of course mate.
And exactly. No two producers are alike.
@Fruitbat1919 said:
“I suppose if we gave all the AB Forum members a set of presets, a few drum loops and some sequenced phrases, we would all make quite different music…”
Interesting exercise, actually. The ‘one synth, one loop challenge.’
A level playing field, using only the following free tools.
Free synth & fx suite: the Blamsoft Zero series:
https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/viking-synth/id1085274012; the suite includes reverb, overdrive, filter, bit crusher and chorus.
One single drum loop anyone can download (and slice and edit at will)
the Amen break, obvs:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:The_Amen_Break,_in_context.ogg
Any DAW, any wav editing tools allowed. (But not their onboard fx.)
Use as many or few of these elements as you wish. (e.g. don’t have to use the Amen break if you prefer drumless.)
Finished version as a YouTube vid of the DAW to, uh, ‘show your working’.
Three minute max.
And… let the competition begin.
Any takers?
Not the Amen Break lol
Possibly, he says tentatively. I’d be using AUM, can I use sequencers and MIDI LFOs?
I’m thinking the Amen break is the perfect one to use precisely because it is so overused, so it can stretch people to find ways to use it in a more interesting non cliche way, and because it comes without rights hangups at this point, hence swapping in the Wikipedia ‘fair use’ link above.
Re sequencers and modulators, @bygjohn, I have to say anything goes, because 1) various DAWs have different inbuilt capabilities, and 2) because I couldn’t find a good free sequencer to use.
The spirit of the thing as I interpret @Fruitbat1919 to mean is making it about one synth, one loop, one set of fx. (So guitarists and flute players can get to play too if they want, maybe even dropping the synth entirely and just using their primary instrument through the Zero fx).
Everything else has to be fair game. (I’m gonna be messing with speeds in AUM audio, for example.)
And… it’s just a bit of fun. Limitation is good for the soul, don’t cha think?
For me it depends on the genre and sub genre, every genre has it's own rules in a way. Finding out about those rules, recipes other established arrists are using, and digging into the genre is a big part of music making for me.
Sample based Hip Hop has producers who try to find loops on rare vinyl records and leave those almost untouched (e.g. Madlib), and producers who use vinyl records as a sound library and blend between different ones (e.g. DJ Premier).
The former spends most of his time digging for new music and then cuts those loops using an SP-303 or iPad, the other one with filters and FX in his S950 sampler and outboard gear. Both have totally different approach to record/source material collection. One does always need a new influx of records, while the other one just needs a good sounding collection and time for experimentation for sample processing.
The former would feel like a fraud when using whosampled and YT to dig known loops, removing the actual challenge from his approach, while the latter would feel like he's faking the funk using a DAW to layer and blend samples instead of the S950.
Techno has producers who are DJs first and basically produce to have exclusive tracks, and producers who tour with their equipment as live acts, where their sound is more like a function of their setup and more on the minimal side because of that.
The former has to be on top of DJing and production at the same time, probably valuing software and shortcuts to get to an exclusive sound and create the DJ tools for themselves much more than the latter who defines himself through his live performance and the seelction and mastery of the machines.
The former would feel like a fraud when the live mixing challenge would be removed from their DJing, like those TikTok DJs who just pose in front of decks. The latter when using software with infinite sonic possibilities instead of a limited set of hardware.
Those are just examples from genres I know a bit about and some producer archetypes, I think that everybody kind of follows the footsteps of some archetype producers at one point and then starts to create their own challenge depending on their own circumstances.
If you've got bad conscience, imposter synfrome and feel like you're cheating it could be true and things got to easy, and you may have to increase the difficulty level to keep feeling proud of yourself.
Maybe allow audio damage’s free compressor too— I’m not sure I can make music without crushing the life out of it! I’d also need a deadline or I’ll procrastinate forever.
Off the top of my head, gorillaz, Madonna, queen, prince, the killers all used presets. There are many many many more.
If Gillian hadn’t missed a button while programming the sequencer, New order would never have had Blue Monday.
Whole genre’s are based on samples and loops.
Even when it’s blindingly obvious it’s the same sample, pretty much laid down & used exactly the same way, it doesn’t matter if what’s done with it is great. The example that comes to mind is Isaac Hayes’s track used by Tricky and Portishead. I love both of them.
If I play an acoustic guitar I’m not frantically trying to make it sound different in case anyone says, yeah he’s just copying Ed Sheeran 😉
I can play, create, sample & mangle sounds. Sometimes the sound I need is right there. Sometimes I need to get in amongst it. But the sounds are the tools I use to help me express myself. I guess I’m saying, I don’t need to make a piano to use a piano to express myself. I use the piano I have that someone else made…and a professional guy tunes.
@Svetlovska i’m in but I’ve never made a YouTube video ever 😂
You might have some takers if you post your challenge its own thread :-)
Ok folks, some interesting points raised. I’m not the production police, so I guess how much additional er, ‘outboard’ you choose to use is between you, your DAW and your conscience. Otherwise, keeping it to the Blamsoft suite and the Amen break seems to me like the core of the challenge. Work with just those, and surprise yourself.
@klownshed : I will cross post this on a new thread for a bit more exposure. Deadline? Oh - one week from tomorrow? Close of play midnight your local time Sunday 26th May.
Re making a YouTube vid. Screen cap your performance. If you want to do minimal top and tailing editing, iMovie. Free and easy to use. Save it into your Photos and vids. Then, go to your YouTube channel and you just hit the plus button on your YouTube channel to upload. I’m sure there’s plenty of tutorials out there on the interwebs.
Ok cool. No Rough Rider :-)
I’ll try and be in… time allowing. Sounds like fun.
I’ve never acruallu used the amen break in anger before!
I think I made one many years ago, but I can’t remember how I did it!
Limitation is what makes it fun!
I’ve had to add Other Desert Cities and Flux Pro, as I needed a delay and I use Flux Pro in nearly all my tracks, so I would be lost without it lol
I’ll use anything and everything to make the music that moves me. I really don’t care what other people think about my process tbh. If I’m having fun and like the results, it’s all fair game to me.
I use a variety of techniques and methods in a range of genres
It’s either all mine, or none of it’s mine
And i’m happy with either classification
Aaahhh come on! Be brave. Stick to the rules
you can choose the rules/limitations next time.
It’s the limits that make it worthwhile :-)
But without delay....delay...delay.delay I'm lost lol
Want to make it just a little more challenging? How about limit it to one PATCH from a particular synth, one loop and a limited number of effects (only reverb and delay... or only reverb)?
Please no! I'm having certain app withdrawal as it is! Lol
Haha!
I think you have to take it back a bit in time to get a partial answer. Obviously, if you ask for a blues with a Robert Johnson style vocal from an AI program you’re not creating much on your own. But you can use a twelve bar blues pattern to make a great sounding blues tune on your own even if you didn’t invent twelve bar blues.
Take it back further… 2-5-1… it was invented somewhere in the distant past. We use it all the time in pop and jazz. Along those lines you couldn’t make saxophone music before the invention of the saxophone itself.
In other words, all artists use tools and devices as aids to creativity. There can’t be anything wrong with that, otherwise you’d expect Michelangelo should have made the David without a hammer and chisel.
Similarly, Warhol couldn’t have made the quadratic Marilyn without the development of silkscreen technique, which he wasn’t the creator of. Isn’t that effect an early form of “preset”or filter effect?
So where’s the line? If you go far enough you have to insist if it isn’t made by a human mind (which, in itself, is just a complex tool), it isn’t valid as art . IMHO, that’s just an ego game. Just one more phony narrative we’ve constructed to self validate. Especially in a world where elephants can paint.
It’s fun to create. It can be spiritually satisfying, too, but for this discussion, maybe it’s better to contextualize art as something appreciated by the receiver and not the transmitter. If it’s framed that way then the source doesn’t matter. A new spin on beauty is in the eye of the holder.
Lots of interesting discussion from people. Thanks
This is a great thread!! For me, my music is mine when make it my own. Ultimately no sound is my own unless I generated it with my voice or my body, so with that being said, using someone else's sound to my liking, on my timing, and on my own terms makes it mine. The questions definitely has me thinking about this twice though.
Coming from Analog gear and midi-only DAWs to Ableton to iOS today. I am embracing constraints and limitations and if needed forcing myself to do so. Bounce audio to commit. Record jams to audio-only. Multichannel or just the master.
This + the direct interaction with touch comes closer to working with dedicated hardware than anything in between. Not in terms of tactile vs touch. Because they are both equally amazing. But in terms of human/machine interaction and the induced flow state that often comes with it.
With intent or without. Everyone is unique by definition based on personal experience, taste, opinion, development, etc.
A human life is a curated brain.
A code of 4 numbers has 10000 options.
When you are trying to create what you like listening to, listen to something else you like. If you want to be great at documentary photography, go shoot landscapes and portraits. If you want to create A do B. Everything is a remix when you focus too much on what you want to make.
I love this stuff. I do not like this stufff
This food is my favorite. This food is not for me.
Perhaps a load of incoherent gibberish.
But no presets were used. Just basic grammar check as English is not my first language and I dislike typing.
🔥✌️
Me too. Which is what makes it a challenge.
I (over)use delay on everything. Not having my usual toolbox will be well outside my comfort zone. Which is a good thing. There’s plenty of stuff left — at least there’s a reverb to abuse
Are you "cooking" when you open the packet and pop it in the microwave? I know what my answer would be...