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A MIDI app for editing really large and long playing MIDI files?
I've been recording some of my long dinner music gigs lately, where I just play non-stop for a couple hours. I use an ipod connected to my yamaha keyboard, record it with MIDI Tape recorder. I press record at the beginning, and then press stop at the end of the gig. This results in a a single MIDI of thousands of measures. Trying to edit the MIDI file on my ipad to separate the songs, but my MIDI editor can't seem to handle such a long playing file. The MIDI tape player app on my ipad won't even play it back correctly. Helium will play it, but I can't edit data after 1000 measures. Looks like Helium has a 1000 measure limit on displaying MIDI data?
Does anyone has any experience in editing large MIDI files like this and can suggest another app to try? Is there a time limit for MIDI files?
Thanks!
Comments
@SevenSystems ?
@espiegel123 thanks for the mention!
@Dav you could try Xequence 2 to record, edit, playback, and save your performances. It has no limits on the length of a project or MIDI clip or the amount of MIDI data, other than the available RAM.
Editing the notes and controller data could get a bit slow though with thousands of notes in a single recorded clip, so you might want to split the recorded or imported MIDI clip into a few smaller slices before opening it for editing (it's easy using the Process -> Split tool.)
I've had exactly the same problem and finally found Imaginando's LK to be the best.
They've done a few fixes in the past and now it works amazingly well.
Its limit is 999 bars per clip (which would be 4000 measures, right?)
Other than that, MIDI Tape Recorder can crop to a selection so after you've duplicated and backed up up your original recording, you can split it into smaller parts.
The midi stretching feature of Xequence 2 could come in very handy too, I would think.
Actually, "measure" is the old (school) name for a bar.
Also, the number of beats per bar (measure 👴🏻) would obviously depend on the time signature ☝️🙄
Thank you all for your suggestions. Xequence 2 does load the big file very well. I watched a video on how to setup playback with it in AUM, and no problem assigning Pianoteq or Ravenscroft pianos to that. Xequence is very well made.
I'm having a sustain problem to work out, the sustain pedal is not recognized during playback in Xequence. I'm thinking it may be the MIDI itself, because playing back MIDI file made in MIDI Tape Recorder on my PC all have the same problem. Could it be because MIDI tape recorder records MPE data too? (not really sure what MPE data is). Perhaps there's a setting I'm missing somewhere I could adjust? Next time I will try and record the dinner with Xequence 2.
Thank you all!
EDIT: I'm not knocking MIDI Tape recorder in any way, it's a great app and easy as pie to use.
Hi. MPE data normally means that each note and its expression parameters are sent on a different MIDI channel. And MIDI channel 1 is reserved as the control channel, for CCs and other messages that apply to all notes. Now, you were probably playing notes on channel 1, so I'm not sure how that would work. Since the notes seem to have come through, it's likely not an issue.
Are you sure that sustain (CC64) messages were recorded? Or even that they were being sent by your keyboard? You could debug this with a short test; no need for a full session.
Hmm, I'm not sure. I will test that out as see. Helium does playback with the sustain pedal in, I just can't get beyond 1000 bars. I need to learn more about MIDI.
Thanks @uncledave.
I’ve got curious how Logic Pro for iPad handles big MIDI-files.
I joined a lot of piano MIDI-files to a big single file, imported it into Logic, and, that MIDI-region was more than eight hours, 11000 bars and a variable BPM from 60 to 100.
No problem to edit this MIDI-region into Logics editor… Great news I think for us LogicLovers!
Old school? My 15 year old son says measures and he didn’t pick it from me.
MTR will record/play sustain pedal info if it receives it. You can use a midi monitor to see if sustain pedal info is being received by the ipad and also if it is present in what MTR is sending out.
Just a little experimenting …
Remembering that MultiTrackStudio has a built in MIDI editor, I decided to load a Big MIDI up in that and it loaded fully and plays back ok, and I can edit it all. Looking at the control panel info in that it shows sustain info is recorded. I decided to export the midi track out of MTS into a new MIDI file and and checked the box to make it ‘Format 0’. That new MIDI file is a little smaller, and the good news is that version plays back correctly in the other MIDI players, and my PC MIDI player too.
Old as in "learned in school", because it is the correct terminology.
measure is the stuff between the bar-lines
@Dav thanks for trying Xequence. It should record (and edit) both the sustain pedal and any possible MPE data correctly. So would be happy to hear if you have success recording your next dinner performance all in Xequence.
When importing a MIDI file that has sustain pedal info, make sure to enable import of Controllers in the import dialog (as sustain pedal is a controller too).
Hope this helps. Let me know any further questions.
@Dav If you want to learn about MIDI this is a good place to tap some experts.
Maybe start (or search for) threads with MIDzi questions.
MPE is the standard that makes the ROLI Seaboard bend notes per finger movement. Only important if you use one like that.
MIDI 1.0 can be learned pretty fast. The document is short but it’s based on computer data like bits and bytes (8-bit groups). So that understanding is assumed. CC use 7 bits which could range from 0 to 127 in decimal. MIDI channels use 4 bits or 0-15 but for users we call them 1 to 16.
That sustain pedal might send up or down but it could send a conituous electrical signal that gets converted to CC 64. The standard interprets values equal to or below 63-0 to be a change to up and 64-127 to be the movement you press down. (I could have it backward). A continuous CC signal might support half pedaling like the real piano does but try and find an app that does… maybe PianoTeq.
The biggest headache with MIDI is the concept of a clock interpreting where incoming events lie of the musical Beat Per Minute scheme. Most pianists just play and drift a bit on their clock. Musicians follow… no MIDI app is that aware of the human quality of treating time placement as expressive. Slip away from the clock and that midi is a mess in a DAW. The solution is to play to a timed click or drum track or machine and you’ll save a lot of DAW headaches.
Hitting record on MTR and saving a gig still works to hear your work but adding to that midi might mean just playing another midi track and ignoring the recorders clock again. Like a real tape system did. Just events with relative intervals for playback.
MIDI stretching might prove useful in your goals as @SevenSystems suggested. He’s the man for MIDI knowledge at the bit level and a musician to boot.
Hey thanks! That worked, My original MIDI files now play correctly importing them that way. And it sure is easy in Xequence 2 to zoom up to any place in the midi file!
@McD. Thank you for the info.
OK that's good to hear. Beware: When you move individual notes around, the corresponding sustain pedal data isn't automatically moved along with it (because that's basically impossible to do technically).
If you want to do "major" cuts / timestretches / etc. to your recording that preserves (moves along) the sustain pedal data, you'd best do this in the arrangement (not in the pianoroll / controller editor) by splitting up clip(s) and then moving / stretching / deleting etc. the individual clips, always making sure that you select both the clips for the notes and for the controller data (if you have imported them separately; you can also import notes + sustain into a single clip).
@SevenSystems:
Thanks for the info, I will remember that. Ive been watching a few tutorials this morning - I didn’t realize how powerful Xequence 2 really is. Great app!
Xequence 2 is good for big midi projects.
Glad you're happy with it so far. Maybe it's too cheap for its own good 😝
Now.. if there was just a great MIDI playback app in an AUv3 format. I did all them I own to be deficient when compared to xequence.
I keep using Musk MIDI player.
I get close with Atom 2 but that fixed sized font kills all joy.
I was splitting channels with LK but bugs ruined my bliss.
I’ll keep waiting…
Does that also launch space rockets and sell electric cars? 😂🥴 (sorry German humor... terrible. I'm infamous in Ireland for it and everyone rolls their eyes in anticipation from a mile away)
I think it’s a soda vs. pop thing - I hear both equally, but in some situations one more than the other.
I could be chastised for posting shit about Elon but I didn’t make the connection until you made this joke.
People should have him figured out by now… he’s no genius visionary. He’s just a rapacious capitalist that has multiplied inherited wealth and taken credit for some very clever scientists snd engineers.
He’s got a lot in common with Edison and Ford. History will probably continue the PR campaign.
It reminds me of Bill Gates vs Gary Kildall. Money and power corrupt but they can also manage your PR.
Many here might get Gates vs Linus Thorvalds for being important to the world of tech but Kildall was the smart programmer no one knows about.
NOTE: most of my opinions are taken from people that know what they are talking about. Like Van Jacobsen who made the internet scale with his protocols and optimizations. A Berkeley professor.
Genius - probably not, but visionary for sure. And like it or not, he made it happen by bringing together the scientists and engineers in a productive way.
@michael_m said:
Yeah I think you’re right. Having worked in a variety of music genres, I think I hear the term measure most in classical settings. Jazz musicians are more likely to use a bar. (Never heard anyone call out a “12 measure blues” after all)