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Songwriting
Hello all. I'm a beginning songwriter (in addition to all of this iPad stuff 
). I've got a lot of good loops that fit together but not a full song.
I've read that some people start out with drums, others start with a chord sequence, etc. What is your method for writing a song?
Comments
To paraphrase Mrs. Beeton: First fall in love...
Start with the instrument (voice included) that you are most comfortable or excited with. You either need to be comfortable enough to play it the way you want the idea to sound, or be excited enough by the sound to let the idea fit into the sound you're liking. I typically play something first, and sing a melody that feels good with it. Then throw words in to get the melodic rhythm, and later the lyric idea for the song will randomly hit me, usually driving home from work. When I actually build the song, however, I start with drums almost always.
I still like the falling in love thing, but in general I think @NoiseHorse might be onto something a bit more consistent.
Coursera are just about to start a free Berkley MOOC / online course on songwriting. I signed up.
Might be worth checking out.
I don't think there is a set way to write songs, although I think starting with a beat is pretty rare (but why not!).
I've read a few books on the subject, "Tunesmith" by Jimmy Webb is a very good one, and "Songwriting Secrets of the Beatles" is also excellent (but very heavy on theory, in a good way though).
I generally start with chord sequences and then figure out a melody to go with it, however I have also occasionally started with a melody and fitted the chords around it, which I find much harder but seems to work much better - I guess this is because it results in a much stronger melody, and the melody is the most important thing by far.
Paul Mc Cartney wrote yesterday after dreaming the melody, he woke up and figured it out on a piano, then spent months after that crafting the words and the chord sequence around it. The original lyrics were famously "scrambled eggs, oh my darling how I love your legs", and John Lennon was sad when they got changed to the proper lyrics because they all used to roll around laughing when rehearsing the original version.
Anyway, I think the point is that there isn't really a set process, like all art forms it's a personal thing, do what works for you and figure it out as you go along. I think some things are pretty important though: firstly music is primarily about emotion, so it really helps to approach it from that angle rather than being technical, and also songs really need to have some dynamics and changes in order to take the listener on some kind of a journey.
Good reading
Same problem here, with a lot of finished ideas and a bit lack of time. As a guitarist most songs (for me) comes out of nowhere based on chords, rythms and sounds I like "here and now", in a kind of "dream". Yup, when playing I might "loose" the real world and its all about the music. Somhow I hear the hole band with lack of lyrics...
So, a phrase here and there leads me into recording too fast to re-construct what I "heard". The result is (almost) always just another unfinished idea, or a song with its pattern without lyrics. And a great experience
I think for me at that stage, the real work should begin - lyrics. They are not coming easy to me, just phrases. Songs that I have finished is a result of a complete set of words and chords before digging into recording.
I guess I just love the creative process
As a writer by trade (and persuasion) I started out writing lyrics for friends in London bands (a thousand years ago). It's still the only way that writing a song really makes sense to me. The reason I started playing any kind of music was because I would give the guys a 'sad' song and they would play it at a thousand miles an hour or they'd take something 'happy' and play it like a dirge...
For all of that, the music aspect is so much more difficult for me that I find it much more interesting/stimulating and thus spend far too much time -probably- at what I'm not so good at, knowing that when I get a melody I like I'll easily be able to fit lyrics to it. The only problem being actually finishing the music.....it's one of the very few areas in life where I'm prepared to tackle what I find hardest first, which is probably why the whole business retains my interest
It still usually starts with a lyrical idea, story or title, for which I know or can feel the atmosphere of before I begin...
Do you think anyone would be interested in me doing a short video series on how I write from start to finished product
I would Doug.
Very definitely, as long as you give proper recognition to Jo
Definitely, definitely. Especially anything on lyrics as well. Thanks.
When I have a uke, I use that. When I have a guitar, I use that. When I have a keyboard/piano I use that. When I'm driving/cycling/walking I sing it into my phone (all required parts: vox, bass line, groove) then finish it off on the ipad, most likely bm2 but if it's loopable I stick it into loopy. I don't think there's a set way to do it but for me, with my best songs most of the important bits were composed in my head first.
With my last band we'd just get together and jam and record the session. Then I'd listen to it and whenever I had a vocal idea while listening I'd record that on top using my phone then take it further at home, maybe chop off all of the muddy bits etc. then I'd takeit back to the next practice and finish it off with the band.
Edit: the less hard you try and the more you feel what you're trying to do, the more likely you are to come up with something decent IMO
Edit 2: and if you're trying hard and it ain't happening just leave it and do something else, maybe it is not your songwriting moment, it may happened when you on the toilet the following morning. Most of prolific songwriters will have written at most a few of the songs universally considered as great in the whole of their lifetime which makes it just a bit above zero per day.
Here's how I generally tell people to get from that "I've got a bunch of loops" phase to actually having a song:
http://innerportalstudio.com/articles/ArrangingSongs.pdf
http://innerportalstudio.com/articles/Transitions.pdf
@Matt_Fletcher_2000 said:
That course looks really cool. I just signed up. They also have a free Berklee music production course starting up at the same time.
@Coloobar - See you in the virtual lecture theatre then...
.
@Tarekith kind of you to share, look forward to reading etc.
I also found this to be a good read. It's geared more towards the orchestral side of things, but lots of it applies to any genre of music. Plus there's some good links in it to other great articles.
http://music.tutsplus.com/tutorials/a-guide-to-producing-an-epic-orchestral-track--audio-13389
Tend to agree with Flo, but would like to see Dougish techniques; possibly a behind the scenes of that album you said you were working on?
If you don't have technical mastery of a traditional instrument, I recommend a few things.
First, what I won't be recommending: pick up the piano. In fact, this would be a fantastic thing to do, and you should do it. But I'm going to pretend you are looking for a different path to songwriting.
Google is your friend. Google questions about "chord progressions", etc. Yesterday, I searched for a bunch of stuff on guitar arpeggios.
If there's a song in my head, then it has an inherent chord structure. There are several apps for stringing chords together into song "sketches". I like suggester and chordbot:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/suggester-chord-progression/id504740787?mt=8
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/chordbot/id394754767?mt=8
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/chordpolypad-midi-chords-player/id694599930?mt=8
Alternatively, find a synth that is FUN to play. Jordantron comes to mind as something that easily draws hooks and melodies out of you. But there's a laundry list of these guys now, and even thumbjam can get juices flowing.
Song making apps can help you as a shortcut, ranging from Figure on the simple end, to KorgGadget on the high-end. Don't forget garageband in between. But there are some apps that go beyond simple loop mashing, and give you some creative control.
For recording, you may be able to escape a DAW if you use loopy. Try garageband first, just to get a sense of what it takes to construct a song. But then set you sites on
Get a few apps that let you tap the endless possibilities of the net. Bismark lets you use soundfonts, for example. Some drum machines let you use your own samples that you find on the net, etc. Find a way to move beyond the simple app.
Wow, what a splatter.
If you know your progression Guide Track can be handy as well.
https://itunes.apple.com/de/app/guide-track/id873642046?mt=8
It's quite easy to set up and try different grooves and instruments.
Nobody here has mentioned what I consider to be a reasonably easy route to writing a song. I used it quite a bit when I was getting started.
Choose some great song from some band that you love. Pretend that you were hired to improvise another guitar part to the song, or a piano part, or whatever else you want to play. Hit record. Play a new part along to the song and then keep right on playing when the song ends.
You can lather, rinse and repeat your way through any number of great songs from different styles.
Some people might consider that technique to be a total rip-off of other bands. On the surface it seems to be at least derivative, but I always found myself quickly morphing my way into something considerably different. I sort of used great songs to kick me into gear, and once I was going I always went off and explored my own territory. The important thing is that it got me started writing songs. Since I was working off of great songs I got used to some surprisingly high standards.
I don’t use this approach any more, or at least I don’t do it consciously. Now I tend to always have new songs playing in my mind. The challenge is to work backwards to figure out ways to record what I hear in my head. That's a completely different subject. I don't have any advice about how to get new songs playing in your head.
Thanks a lot for the advice and links. I created a pages document and copy and pasted your advice. Then I numbered and arranged it by catagory. Finally I added the links at the end and bookmarked them in a special folder. Just wanted to let you know that I value your comments.
One day someone should start gathering PDFs from comments made in this forum. ( ?)
I tend to write in two ways - firstly by playing around (noodling!) on an instrument and being inspired by a particular sound or chord sequence. The second way is I get a tune, a lyric idea or some other fragment in my head and I build it from that. I think the second way tends to produce better songs, but either way, you need to work on and craft that initial inspiration to produce a final song.