Just Jazz ?

GeoTony

Not sure if this qualifies as jazz but I was happy with the end result…
A programmed chord sequence in Piano Motifs playing Decent Sampler RJS Guitar and iBassist.
Lumbeat Jazz Drummer provides the percussion and the lead is SWAM Piccolo Trumpet played with GeoShred.

Video of the track creation …

MadeofWax

I’ll have to defer to someone more knowledgeable about the genre to determine if this “qualifies as jazz” but it certainly has an enjoyable groove, all the pieces together sound like a well rehearsed ensemble and you truly make that trumpet sing.
I may have to make some room on the iPad for Decent Sampler again. I do like the sound of the guitar as well.

LinearLineman

The horn part is jazz. The guitar could fit into a couple of genres. Don’t ask me how I know. It’s got a nice mood to it.

McD

If the trumpet player stepped out on the stage and improvised that music then it’s jazz.
If a composer wrote such a part out then no.

In this case you played a jazz trumpet solo using GeoShred and a SWAM trumpet… using
a range of the instrument dominantly that I’m not sure it can actually produce. It’s a tiny trumpet that is 1/2 of the length of a regular trumpet and plays up an octave. The notes I hear seem like the lower octave of a regular trumpet. No biggie… I think the SWAM folks are somewhat liberal on their instrument ranges.

MadGav

As a trumpeter who plays jazz I can weigh in 😄

The instrument is a piccolo trumpet which is pitched an octave above a Bb trumpet and is typically used to play baroque music, because it’s easier to play quietly in the high range, not that playing high is easier. I’ve never heard anyone play jazz on one, though I have seen a video with a mini King Liberty which would be pitched the same. The tone and articulation is jazz - not at all “legit” (classical) which in my head would be brighter, more bell-like and straight (no pitch bending at all). The writing is good and I’m quite impressed with SWAM, the tone is good at times the articulation is mushy I thought.

Trumpet range is more dependent on the player than the instrument unless a poor instrument is limiting. Traditional classical range (19th century) for a Bb trumpet (a “normal” one) is Eb below the staff to Bb above (treble clef). This can be extended… downward it’s possible to play “pedal tones” below the true range, or a 4th valve can extend - on a piccolo trumpet that would be common, on a Bb almost unknown , somewhat common on a Bb Flugelhorn. Upward is entirely dependent on the player - another local “comeback player” said he’s struggling a little below standard range, I’m about on it and on a good day can reach a concert D. But… a lead specialist would be expected to reach concert G above the staff, even Bb or further. Those with a gift in that direction, higher still!

MadGav

I should add a note on piccolo range… if I’ve added this up correctly with a 4th valve the lowest non-pedal note would be concert middle C, but that’s only a tone above the “true pedal” Bb which may or may not be useable on a piccolo, B could be bent down from C or a slide extended (not sure on piccolo again!).

GeoTony

Thanks all 🙏
The RJS Guitar is one of my favourite Ds sounds @MadeofWax , I’ve used it a few times, always on the ‘Old Strings’ preset.
We won’t ask @LinearLineman 😊
You raise a couple of interesting points @McD .
The first is that jazz is nothing to do with the notes that reach your ear but how the notes came into being. So if you improvised a new Bach Cantata it would be jazz but if you notated and played a Miles Davies solo it wouldn’t be?
Regarding the Piccolo range, funnily enough one of the criticisms of SWAM in the early days was that they stuck to rigidly to the ‘real’ note ranges of the instruments. I’ve just checked the ranges and this is what they are ( octave numbering is as per SWAM and StreamByter)
Piccolo E2 to E6
Trumpet E2 to Db6
C Trumpet F#2 to D6
Flugelhorn E2 to Ab5
EB Flugelhorn A1 to Eb5
Many thanks for your comments @MadGav , always nice to have a real player perspective. Could you expand on the ‘mushy articulation’ bit for me please, just interested to know more about this.

MadGav

I can quickly comment that the SWAM ranges are reasonable but do omit the pedal register. Top end is full extreme scream.

I’ll have to listen again to comment in more detail on the mushy impression.

MadGav

(I was assuming that A3 is 440Hz btw, I can play that no problem, my top end would be D5 with a following breeze)

GeoTony

Thanks @MadGav 👍 You made me dig a bit deeper into the SWAM settings and I’ve found that you can switch Pedal Notes on which visually adds a 4th valve and note wise adds what seems to be a full lower octave. Shows in green on the SWAM keyboard in this screenshot…

Paulieworld

Yes, it’s definitely jazz. I love the trumpet solo melody. Some might say that careful planning means it’s not jazz. I disagree. The best improvisers spend decades perfecting their craft. Does that mean it’s not jazz? I doubt if Miles ever went into a studio without a plan. I vote for Jazz.

Luxthor

I couldn’t tell if it was jazz or not. I don’t actually care, I just want more of this! 🤩 Thank you for sharing.

GeoTony

🙏 @Paulieworld and @Luxthor

boomer

@GeoTony said:
You raise a couple of interesting points @McD .
The first is that jazz is nothing to do with the notes that reach your ear but how the notes came into being. So if you improvised a new Bach Cantata it would be jazz but if you notated and played a Miles Davies solo it wouldn’t be?

Astute observation. A story to illustrate the second point about notating a Miles Davis solo…
A professional acquaintance of mine once got hired to sit in with the band of a world famous jazz trumpet player, I I won’t say who. He said this player played the same solos every nite for a week. When my acquaintance called him on it, the answer was something like; when you find something that works well, you stick with it.

Was that jazz? The composer/performer, “notated” the solos in his head and played them. The first time he played them it was jazz. But what the audience heard that week technically was not. He was just performing his own composition. Conceptually no different than Chopin performing his own composition. Does that really make a difference? If it sounds like jazz, and looks like jazz…..

And to illustrate the first point about improvising a cantata, I would point you to this video:

To me this is jazz at its purest. Just doesn’t sound like it because of style. Asking how those notes came into being takes me into the spiritual realm. There’s another video from when she was a child where she talks about dreaming the notes. Goose bumps for me.

Another professional friend and astounding jazz player defines improvisation as “spontaneous composition”. So if you compose but you can’t do it spontaneously, you are just doing a slow motion improvisation. I think most people here, myself included, are in that category. One notable exception I know about is @LinearLineman. I am envious of folks who can truly improvise. I would ask him where the notes come from.

Having said all that, @Luxthor states it most succinctly. You shouldn’t care either.

Nice track, nice mood. Nice melody. Thanks for posting and asking the question you did.

GovernorSilver

I listened to a podcast on Louis Armstrong a few years ago. The podcast focused on a solo that he developed for a particular song.

I don't remember specifics like the song title but what I do remember is that his improvisations were part of a search for the perfect solo for that specific song. Once he felt that he discovered the perfect solo for that song, he would repeat that same solo for that same song from concert to concert. There's also the famous Armstrong quote "Never play the same solo twice" but I don't remember the podcast addressing that quote.

Pat Metheny stated in some interview that he composed guitar solos for some of the later Pat Metheny Group albums, and recorded the solos as he had composed them. I don't recall if he said anything about how his composed solos related to jazz as a genre during this time. I only recall that he viewed this as part of the production process. I also recall his expression of ambiguous feeling about whether or he should be labeled as a jazz musician. This isn't unique to Pat - I've known other improvising musicians who claimed they don't really feel like being labeled as jazz musicians on some days, but on other days worked their butts off transcribing and practicing Coltrane solos and the like. Live recordings do show that Pat never really stopped improvising from concert to concert.

jimhanks

I just have to ditto what @LinearLineman said. I dug it 😎