M Audio Hammer 88

bluegroove

@hes said:

@bluegroove said:
Yes, I thought so as well, but I tried everything, but no luck. Seems a common problem for this model when I initially googled it.

I tried adjusting the curves in Pianoteq, but didn’t seem to help a whole lot as I couldn’t really force it to go any higher than 70 or 80. Maybe I’m doing something wrong?

Sounds like you're doing something wrong. Both on failure to get different behavior by adjusting settings on the keyboard and by not knowing how to adjust velocity curves in Pianoteq.

If you haven't found the keyboard setting that increases or decreases velocity values for same hardness of a keypress, I assure you it's there and it will change things. I don't know if it will get to full 127 value, but it would make it higher. (This also is not an issue with your keyboard that is relevant only to sending midi out. Your keyboard uses the same midi values internally as the ones it sends out. If you've so far been happy when playing the keyboard itself, but think something is worse when you're sending midi out, then you have an issue that is primarily psychological perception, not something based on reality.)

As for Pteq, it's a quick adjustment in Pianoteq to get a velocity of 127 from every single keypress, from super-soft to super-hard and everything in between. Of course, that's not what you want either. But if you aren't able to adjust a velocity curve to do that then it seems you're not understanding something. Maybe you're still looking at the input velocities to Pteq, which of course will not have changed; the key is what they are after they've been processed by the velocity curve.)

Lol I wish it were merely "psychological perception". I've had it since Christmas and play everyday via Pianoteq with the standard curve and the velocity only goes to around 90 and that's if I hit it with a sledgehammer even with the Yamaha factory velocity set to "medium" or "high" (that was of course the first thing I tried to adjust when I first got it).

As I said, it is unfortunately a common issue with this model (Yamaha P-45) going back several years. For example, here is a reddit post from all the way back in 2017 and there are many other similar posts over the years:

https://www.reddit.com/r/piano/comments/5v2o59/yamaha_p45_velocity_through_midi_too_soft/

That said, I just stumbled across this and going to give it a try:

https://www.reddit.com/r/piano/comments/143b2yk/yamaha_p45_midi_velocity_issue_fixed/

I never tried setting the velocity to "soft" as that seems completely backwards, but I'll give it a try later today when I'm near the piano and see if it does indeed solves things.

Also contrary to what you said, it is indeed a midi specific issue and the velocity is clearly different through the internal speakers. Weird, I know, but again it's a commonly reported issue that I wasn't aware of until I actually encountered it. For the first couple days, I used the internal speakers exclusively as I hadn't yet moved the piano into my studio near my computer. Then when I moved it a couple days later, the velocity was clearly significantly softer through midi, no matter what plugin or DAW I used.

I have honestly got accustomed to the lower velocity over the months as I usually play on the softer side anyway, but it is a bit weird as I have another novation keyboard mounted right above which is ultra sensitive, so going back and forth between the two is a bit jarring. I also definitely lose some of the dynamic range by being capped under 100.

Anyway, thanks for your help, and I'll report back later today when I try that reddit "fix" I posted above.

Gavinski

@bluegroove said:

@hes said:

@bluegroove said:
Yes, I thought so as well, but I tried everything, but no luck. Seems a common problem for this model when I initially googled it.

I tried adjusting the curves in Pianoteq, but didn’t seem to help a whole lot as I couldn’t really force it to go any higher than 70 or 80. Maybe I’m doing something wrong?

Sounds like you're doing something wrong. Both on failure to get different behavior by adjusting settings on the keyboard and by not knowing how to adjust velocity curves in Pianoteq.

If you haven't found the keyboard setting that increases or decreases velocity values for same hardness of a keypress, I assure you it's there and it will change things. I don't know if it will get to full 127 value, but it would make it higher. (This also is not an issue with your keyboard that is relevant only to sending midi out. Your keyboard uses the same midi values internally as the ones it sends out. If you've so far been happy when playing the keyboard itself, but think something is worse when you're sending midi out, then you have an issue that is primarily psychological perception, not something based on reality.)

As for Pteq, it's a quick adjustment in Pianoteq to get a velocity of 127 from every single keypress, from super-soft to super-hard and everything in between. Of course, that's not what you want either. But if you aren't able to adjust a velocity curve to do that then it seems you're not understanding something. Maybe you're still looking at the input velocities to Pteq, which of course will not have changed; the key is what they are after they've been processed by the velocity curve.)

Lol I wish it were merely "psychological perception". I've had it since Christmas and play everyday and the velocity only goes to around 90 in Pianoteq and that's if I hit it with a sledgehammer even with the factory velocity set to "medium" or "high". As I said, it is unfortunately a common issue with this model (Yamaha P-45) going back several years. For example, this is from 2017:

https://www.reddit.com/r/piano/comments/5v2o59/yamaha_p45_velocity_through_midi_too_soft/

That said, I just stumbled across this and going to give it a try:

https://www.reddit.com/r/piano/comments/143b2yk/yamaha_p45_midi_velocity_issue_fixed/

I never tried setting the velocity to "soft" as that seems completely backwards, but I'll give it a try later today when I'm near the piano and see if it does indeed solves things.

I have honestly got accustomed to the lower velocity over the months as I usually play on the softer side anyway, but it is a bit weird as I have another novation keyboard right above it which is ultra sensitive, so going back and forth between the two is a bit jarring.

Anyway, thanks for your help, and I'll report back later today when I try that "fix" I posted above.

That ‘soft’ thing - yes, it is a weird naming convention, and I think I came across that in an app recently, but forget which. I think the idea is that you can get loud sounds even when you play softly, so they call it ‘soft’. Kind silly, definitely, but maybe it will fix your problem.

hes

@bluegroove said:
Lol I wish it were merely "psychological perception". I've had it since Christmas and play everyday via Pianoteq and the velocity only goes to around 90 and that's if I hit it with a sledgehammer even with the factory velocity set to "medium" or "high". As I said, it is unfortunately a common issue with this model (Yamaha P-45) going back several years. For example, this is from 2017:

What I was calling a possible perception issue was if you (1) were unhappy with the keyboard when played using midi to drive external sound source, but (2) happy with the way the keyboard itself played when using its internal sounds. I don't know if that was the case. But same issue exists in both cases, since the midi sent externally is same as midi used internally. (The issue can also be clouded by the "volume" setting on whatever device you're using to amplify the Pianoteq and/or keyboard's audio signals. If you have them set differently you will get differing loudnesses, even though midi is identical.)

That said, I just stumbled across this and going to give it a try:

https://www.reddit.com/r/piano/comments/143b2yk/yamaha_p45_midi_velocity_issue_fixed/

I never tried setting the velocity to "soft" as that seems completely backwards, but I'll give it a try later today when I'm near the piano and see if it does indeed solves things.

"Hard" means you have to hit the keys hard to play loudly. "Soft" means you don't need to hit them hard to play loudly, the keys will be more sensitive.

Setting to "soft" should be closer to what you want. After doing this you can tweak it using Pianoteq velocity curve to get it exactly as you want. But setting sensitivity to "soft" using keyboard's internal settings is the first step. (Note that this will make it more difficult to play notes with low velocity; e.g., you may be unable to consistently produce velocities of, say, 20 or less. It is a set of tradeoffs. Possible solution is to use middle setting on keyboard and Pianoteq velocity curve to tweak so you get full range of 1 to 127, though at the extremes it will always be especially hard to get consistent results.)

michael_m

@Gavinski said:

@sigma79 said:

@Gavinski said:

@sigma79 said:
I thought yes.

An actual video of a person explaning if a regular key is wider than a mini key but like all reviews. They forget to say.

Its a conspracy and perhaps only on a music forum would we find out.

I'm sure you'll find specs, including key width, on the web page for any keyboard you're interested in, tbh, no?

Havent seen key width in any specs of any keyboards but assume key width is wider on an 88 key but still variable.

From post I linked.

The microkey is probably the microkorg

and the M audio hammer 88, would be a Roland RD-300 ( both 140cm diameter )

Psu wise 9v

Its either positive or negative.

Would be using a widi uhost to power keyboard.

Thats probably 5v

No wonder people complain about broken keyboards. There isnt a psu or bus standard but I dont know about electronics.

Should be ok.

An ipad etc is usually 500ma ?

and I doubt 9v

Unsure why a psu would be 9v ?

I have no idea about most of this. That assumption that an 88 key keyboard should have wider keys than keyboards with fewer keys is definitely not correct though, that's not the way it works. Microkey refers to Korg Microkey, yes. Those keys are not full size but the width of the keys is the same on all the microkey models, regardless of octave range.

Unless you're very far from a decent music store, you really should go to the best music store in your area, try the keyboards and have a chat with an expert there, I'd say.

I don’t know about the Korg Microkey, but I know that with most shorter keys they are less wide than standard. For full size keys I can hit a note and its octave without looking as my fingers are used to that spacing, but on most smaller keyboards I hit something wider than an octave due to the narrower keys.

Gavinski

@michael_m said:

@Gavinski said:

@sigma79 said:

@Gavinski said:

@sigma79 said:
I thought yes.

An actual video of a person explaning if a regular key is wider than a mini key but like all reviews. They forget to say.

Its a conspracy and perhaps only on a music forum would we find out.

I'm sure you'll find specs, including key width, on the web page for any keyboard you're interested in, tbh, no?

Havent seen key width in any specs of any keyboards but assume key width is wider on an 88 key but still variable.

From post I linked.

The microkey is probably the microkorg

and the M audio hammer 88, would be a Roland RD-300 ( both 140cm diameter )

Psu wise 9v

Its either positive or negative.

Would be using a widi uhost to power keyboard.

Thats probably 5v

No wonder people complain about broken keyboards. There isnt a psu or bus standard but I dont know about electronics.

Should be ok.

An ipad etc is usually 500ma ?

and I doubt 9v

Unsure why a psu would be 9v ?

I have no idea about most of this. That assumption that an 88 key keyboard should have wider keys than keyboards with fewer keys is definitely not correct though, that's not the way it works. Microkey refers to Korg Microkey, yes. Those keys are not full size but the width of the keys is the same on all the microkey models, regardless of octave range.

Unless you're very far from a decent music store, you really should go to the best music store in your area, try the keyboards and have a chat with an expert there, I'd say.

I don’t know about the Korg Microkey, but I know that with most shorter keys they are less wide than standard. For full size keys I can hit a note and its octave without looking as my fingers are used to that spacing, but on most smaller keyboards I hit something wider than an octave due to the narrower keys.

Yes - I was saying that Sigma seemed to think that the 88-key Microkey would have wider notes than smaller models, I was saying that is not how it works. And yes, you are correct that Microkey keys are narrower than full sized keys, for sure, and that info is available online. Cheers!

sigma79

I think iv touched a real piano key but cant recall and bought a more piano action controller.

Perhaps Gav might buy better than the fp-30x ( even for same price ) if theres any.

but seems good reviews.

Pha-4 keys

Ivory feel

Graded

Continous pedal support

The fp-10 perhaps dosent hence buying the 30x.

Bluetooth.

Its just arrived, anyway.

Will test key action today

Carrying it made house moving seem like a breeze.

Gavinski

@sigma79 said:
I think iv touched a real piano key but cant recall and bought a more piano action controller.

Perhaps Gav might buy better than the fp-30x ( even for same price ) if theres any.

but seems good reviews.

Pha-4 keys

Ivory feel

Graded

Continous pedal support

The fp-10 perhaps dosent hence buying the 30x.

Bluetooth.

Its just arrived, anyway.

Will test key action today

Carrying it made house moving seem like a breeze.

Might feel a bit weird if you've never played a piano to suddenly play weighted keys. Enjoy and let us know.

sigma79

@Gavinski said:

@sigma79 said:
I think iv touched a real piano key but cant recall and bought a more piano action controller.

Perhaps Gav might buy better than the fp-30x ( even for same price ) if theres any.

but seems good reviews.

Pha-4 keys

Ivory feel

Graded

Continous pedal support

The fp-10 perhaps dosent hence buying the 30x.

Bluetooth.

Its just arrived, anyway.

Will test key action today

Carrying it made house moving seem like a breeze.

Might feel a bit weird if you've never played a piano to suddenly play weighted keys. Enjoy and let us know.

It is good.

Will keep.

Bluetooth just pairs easy with Drambo, Aum etc.

Not sure why hosts can pair easy with controllers but always seems issues pairing a device the apple way.

Would have tried a non piano style just to test but would probably still choose realism and have a midi controller for synths.

Only issue is Trumpish hands. A chord is harder for me.

bluegroove

@Gavinski @hes

The soft setting does indeed help a bit with a little boost in velocity (I was using the standard medium setting), although I still can't quite hit 127, but Pianoteq can get me the rest of the way if needed (but I think this will be good enough for most things, especially since I'm used to the lower velocity already). Thanks for all your help and input.

hes

@bluegroove said:
@Gavinski @hes

The soft setting does indeed help a bit with a little boost in velocity (I was using the standard medium setting), although I still can't quite hit 127, but Pianoteq can get me the rest of the way if needed (but I think this will be good enough for most things, especially since I'm used to the lower velocity already). Thanks for all your help and input.

You probably shouldn't feel like you can hit 127 velocity on the keyboard. Or, even to get close, it should feel like you're having to hit the keys so hard that you're going to break something. Might sound strange, but that's probably optimal configuration for playing piano.

Loudness is a different issue. If you want it louder, adjust the volume on your amp.

bluegroove

@hes said:

@bluegroove said:
@Gavinski @hes

The soft setting does indeed help a bit with a little boost in velocity (I was using the standard medium setting), although I still can't quite hit 127, but Pianoteq can get me the rest of the way if needed (but I think this will be good enough for most things, especially since I'm used to the lower velocity already). Thanks for all your help and input.

You probably shouldn't feel like you can hit 127 velocity on the keyboard. Or, even to get close, it should feel like you're having to hit the keys so hard that you're going to break something. Might sound strange, but that's probably optimal configuration for playing piano.

Loudness is a different issue. If you want it louder, adjust the volume on your amp.

Agreed for acoustic piano, but I like to play lots of other stuff on it too (Wurli, Synths, etc.). Also I'm a paraplegic and I don't have a ton of extra energy, so sometimes it's nice to be able to get the higher velocities without having to wail. It's also a fairly cheap model so I do worry about breaking the keys sometimes...but I guess it would also give me a good excuse to upgrade heh.