Over 200 Hours "TRYING" To Make Presets Work..... So Frustrated

Vmusic

Hi,
BACKGROUND: Guitarist with pedalboards and all of them have switchers (GigRig, etc.).... Multi-Fx Processors like the Axe FX III, and Line 6 Helix. I have well over 20+ presets that I use in live performances on any one night. I switch presets in the middle of a song often (different sound for the chorus vs. verse vs. lead break, etc.) This is what I call TYPICAL guitar playing needs.

GOAL or HOPES: Use my iPad with either LP or AUM to replace my multi-fx processors. I would also use my Morningstar MC6 Pro MIDI foot controller to send MIDI messages.

DEFINITION: Preset = a collection or one or typically more plugins, and their unique settings. So each preset at the project or LP level has a unique sound. (Plugins themselves also have presets, but this is not about that)

LP APPROACH:

• Group my many presets into like groups; for example I have 4 or 5 "flavors" of distortion effects: a distortion rhythm, a distortion with a harmonizer, a distortion with an octaver, several distortions
• Place the "group" of like presets into one audiobus, and have a superset of all of the plugins needed for the group in that audiobus (this does not mean all or the complete superset of plugins are enabled, just that they are placed in the audiobus for the group)
• Create a RADIO BUTTON group [note the key word - radio button, and not button grid] the ones with the rounded edges. Create a radio button group for this group of like presets
• Each button in the RADIO BUTTON group represents a unique (totally unique) preset; and with that button there is a unique set of triggered actions when you click the button to select that unique preset. Back to my example: For the 'distortion' radio button group, clicking the first RADIO BUTTON in the group means just the distortion, clicking the 2nd RADIO BUTTON in the group means you want the 'distortion with the harmonizer' and clicking the last radio button in the group means you want the 'distortion with delay' or whatever..... each RADIO button is unique, and each set or list of actions is unique
• Each and every RADIO button in the group:
  *] Has an action to enable or disable ALL or the superset of plugins for that preset group - so each radio button in the group has the PRESS action list and in that list is an 'enable' or 'disable' action for each and every plugin (the superset) for the group. What gets enabled or disabled, depends on the unique preset (or unique RADIO BUTTON)
  *] Has an action for each of the enabled plugins to set or load a specific plugin preset - so for example my 'distortion and octaver' preset, which a unique preset in the distortion group - will enable the octaver plugin, and then also select a plugin preset (my favorite or custom) for the enabled plugin
  ..................so up to this point...... I've described how I setup each group of similar presets; and how each group of similar presets run out of one audiobus, and how I use a RADIO button group to let me select the unique preset I want in the group; and then how the actions for each of the RADIO buttons enable the specific plugins for that unique preset; and select the plugin presets for the enabled plugins - so I get the exact sound that specific preset is supposed to have

:::: one additional item, each RADIO BUTTON also has an action that triggers a separate (different) radio button group which only routes the audio faders from the input source to the correct and specific audio bus for that preset group

50,000 ft;

• I have 20+ presets
• I "group" them into similar sounds, which use or share some of the same plugins (example above)
• Each "preset group" gets a RADIO BUTTON group to allow me to select the unique presets in that group [e.g. distortion, distortion+harmonizer, distortion+delay, distortion+octaver = 4 unique presets put into one preset group]
• Each "preset group" gets its own audio bus where the superset of plugins for that group run
• I have one (and only one) RADIO BUTTON group that just routes the audio signal from the input source to a specific audio bus; this RADIO button group is totally separate from the above mentioned radio button groups used for similar sounding presets

~~~ short rant~~~~~
I have spent over 200 hours, trying to make LP work as multi-fx processor; and although this approach is rather thought out, and heavily tested as explained above, and although it "seems" to be plausible - it still doesn't work, or work well

• I need to know what preset is now selected
• If I change preset group (click on a RADIO button in another radio button group) I want the newly selected radio button to "light up" or show it's been selected, and all of the other RADIO buttons in any of the old /previous radio button group not be "lit up" or "colored in"; there are tons of issues here
• I need better organization of the list of actions or PRESS actions, as typically I have 3 or more plugins in a preset group, and so my list of actions is usually 12 or more items in the list....sometimes I have 30 actions in a list

I am very skeptical the devs will change much because many of the users ARE NOT guitarists with 20+ presets who focus on live performance with various bands. There are many guitarists in LP user community but most are soloists doing looping.................. consequently; many of the feature suggestions in the roadmap that deal with issues around preset selection, never (and likely never will) get enough votes to get dealt with

Having been a user for a year now, I see what feature requests get the most attention; it's those features that tend to improve the software use for iPad musicians, not guitarists or instrumentalists trying to replace pedalboards or multi-fx processors.

In addition; I see of a lot of INCONSISTENCIES in the software - especially in lists. Compare for example this list of ACTIONS in the widgets (press, select, long press, etc.), to the list of MIDI items in a control profile, to the list of possible plugins when you go to add a plugin. And yeah, I'm not saying all lists are perfectly identical but what I would call "base" or "standard" functionality is not there or consistently there. No matter how much Windows sucks in other places, the File Explorer functionality brings so much consistency across applications. LP really lacks consistency. E.g. - I can't even reorder the list of MIDI bindings in the MIDI control profile? Really - this is just sad development.

I would sooOOOOooo love to replace my multi-fx processor with an iPad app that lets me set up presets the same way my Axe Fx III does or Helix Line 6 does ---- and at the same time lets me use AUV3 plugins for fx (or pedals).

I love the idea of having studio grade plugins for pedals or fx; but honestly without the ability to manage them as 20+ unique presets, it's a waste of a great device (the iPad). And a waste of time - did I mention the 200+ hours, trying to get presets and preset groupings to work?

• Am I missing something?
• Is there an iPad app that is designed for guitarists with many (20+) presets - but lets you use any AUV3 plugins rather than trying to force you to buy "their" fx plugins?
• Is there some app or plugin I could put inside LP that gives me better control over presets than the LP app and UI itself does?
• Should I just give up on the iPad, go back to my Line 6 Helix, and come back in a few years and try again?
• Or perhaps - wanting to use studio quality plugins; just quit the iPad and buy a Mac and use Ableton or something like that to manage my 20+ presets?

The extra frustrating thing, IMHO - is that the guitarist market is easily 10x bigger than the iPad musician market. I firmly believe that guitarists by the THOUSANDS would happily ditch their expensive rigs for an iPad; IF (and only if) managing presets was clear and easy. With the issues and complications that LP has right now; many might try, but very few will stay. It's NOT easily usable for live performance where you're managing 20+ presets.

The last year has been sooooOOOOOOO draining and frustrating trying to use LP live. In the old days, guitarists used to get frustrated "tap dancing" to turn on/off and set settings on pedals; I've been finer dancing trying set or change things, or just even see what's running or not in LP, like moving around the UI clicking and opening up.

McD

TL;DR

Loopy Pro or AUM or Drambo

sigma79

Cant understand post but think you need it so you can make it easier to use fx with guitar.

Have you thought to use a 2nd pedal controller.

So left leg chooses a load of fx. While right leg toggles fx in group chosen ?

wim

@Vmusic said:

• Should I just give up on the iPad, go back to my Line 6 Helix, and come back in a few years and try again?

Sure, why not? Except why try again in a few years? You don't seem to be the type that is cut out for this kind of experimentation.

This isn't a dismissive or frivolous question. What is it about the Line 6 approach that doesn't cut it? Why are you putting yourself through this in the first place? It seems like for you it's just not worth it. Maybe an open-ended "build your own" tool like Loopy Pro just isn't a good fit for you.

• Or perhaps - wanting to use studio quality plugins; just quit the iPad and buy a Mac and use Ableton or something like that to manage my 20+ presets?

That will just open up a different set of frustrations.

As the saying goes: "Why beat a dead horse?"

wim

Maybe you should look into something like Camelot Pro or KeyStage that's more purpose-built for something like this rather than something like Loopy Pro that's more of an open-ended toolkit.

McD

@wim said:
Maybe you should look into something like Camelot Pro or KeyStage that's more purpose-built for something like this rather than something like Loopy Pro that's more of an open-ended toolkit.

Hardware in general is more reliable and less likely to frustrate anyone that is performing live music.
With these complex requirements you have to master the “system” and really learn what it can and cannot do.

sigma79

What you might need if using a 2nd board. Is a streambyter script written.

So when you toggle an aum node which would house a script. It would also change the midi command of the other pedal board.

So if a pedal board were 8 buttons and another is 8 buttons

You would have 8 banks.

You could have 8 delays. 8 reverbs etc.

You could also buy surface builder to be a screen of say squares. So it will show you what state an fx is on/off and to which bank etc.

tom_ward

@McD said:

@wim said:
Maybe you should look into something like Camelot Pro or KeyStage that's more purpose-built for something like this rather than something like Loopy Pro that's more of an open-ended toolkit.

Hardware in general is more reliable and less likely to frustrate anyone that is performing live music.
With these complex requirements you have to master the “system” and really learn what it can and cannot do.

Agreed that dedicated hardware can be more reliable. I think that with something like Camelot Pro as @wim noted, OP's MIDI footswitch, and a few more hours of trial and error, the iPad could be a good central system piece though. Seems like that comes close to answering:

@Vmusic said:

• Am I missing something?
• Is there an iPad app that is designed for guitarists with many (20+) presets - but lets you use any AUV3 plugins rather than trying to force you to buy "their" fx plugins?

sigma79

Id still use surface builder when complete.

Even with a violin, where I switch off vibrato depth. Needed to know if activated or not. Found loopy pro widget is enough but would use surface builder to have feedback of loads of activated switches.

espiegel123

@Vmusic : if you want it to match "all actions" and have "press spacer" as an action, "press spacer" needs to do something that would put "spacer" into a highlighted state.

espiegel123

@Vmusic : I posted a demonstration for you on Facebook where you also posted about this. I believe it addresses what you want.

espiegel123

I’ve posted a project on the Loopy Pro Discord in the Tutorials section that demonstrates one way of accomplishing what I think OP is describing . There are probably other ways to accomplish what he wants as well.

https://discord.com/channels/922977925182132245/1266998208459051018/1266998208459051018

espiegel123

Here is the project I posted there

Vmusic

Thanks for all the replies: Why spend all this time.... lighter; I want a pedalboard or multi-fx processor that's lighter to carry. A small backpack and an instrument.....OK; I still need a pedalboard or expression pedals because my hands are on the instrument, and I need to be able to adjust the master volume, and the faders to the audio buses.

Thank you again for the software suggestion and all the replies.