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SOLVED: Controlling Camelot Pro (or other such apps) from my phone?
In the coming stage setup, I need to be running Camleot Pro in the background and select remotely various songs randomly, using CC00,CC32 and PC messages.
My question is - Is it possible to using some sort of midi app (that I can also create a sort of setlist as well on) to dynamically and randomly select various songs setup in Camelot (or even Gig performer for that matter) either one would be fine.
Comments
Unless you have songs for every bank and program combination (2,097,152 of them!) a random number generator is going to pick empty patches most of the time.
If you stuck to one bank with patches stored in a contiguous range, a Mozaic or StreamByter patch could do it.
Yes it will be about 15 different instrument setups. in one bank.
So I guess I would run the Mozaic app on the iPhone, connect via Bluetooth and then proceed from there?
Slight issue at the moment is Italy is in it's annual "summer break" so no info is forthcoming from the developer as yet
Yes about the connection. There's more to it than that though. A small Mozaic script will need to be written that selects a random number between 1 and the number of patches you have, then sends that out as a bank select + program change combination. Some kind soul will do that for you if you decide that's the way you want to go.
If I understand what you want correctly, there could be a Mozaic knob to set the number of patches, all of which could be in bank 0. Then in response to some trigger, either a button press in the app or a midi message from a controller, the script would roll the dice and send out a program change, which Camelot Pro would then use to change the song.
Does that sound right?
The developer of Camelot Pro?
yep!
To find out what?
There's more to it than that though. A small Mozaic script will need to be written that selects a random number between 1 and the number of patches you have, then sends that out as a bank select + program change combination. Some kind soul will do that for you if you decide that's the way you want to go.
Yes. Although not sure about the "random" comment? These are all in order, so would be determined by a fixed CC0,CC32,PC chain.
They use these commands - Select Setlist with CC00 Select Song with CC32 Select Scene with Program Change
I'd only need the first two.
Issue with the keyboard I am using (Numa Compact 2x) it can only send a PC message via midi and as that only changes scenes in Camelot, pretty useless haha!
Hence the need to use a different approach.
alternative methods that work with the app
The "random comment was based on my understanding of this from he OP:
So, it seems I've misunderstood you completely. Selecting randomly means you deciding on a random song and scene and then initiating an action to switch Camelot Pro to that song and scene. It sounded to me like you wanted to push a button or something and have Camelot Pro change to a song and scene at random.
That changes and simplifies everything. It sounds as though all you need is something that can send a bank select to change songs. Then you can follow with PC messages to change scenes in the song.
Is that correct?
haha, sorry - I can see how that could be read!
Yes to the last.
How do you want to trigger the song selection and scene selection? From the screen of the phone?
Yes I think that would be the way. Some way of establishing a "setlist" of the setups in Camelot. Probably numbered so when I select, say 4 on the phone screen (in whatever app) it loads setup 4 in Camelot, but in the background. IE so there is no need to bring camelot to the front.
What do we have to work with? Do you have Surface Builder? Mozaic?
I'm guessing you don't want to use Loopy Pro for this. It could make a good choice, but is rather overkill for this, and I seem to remember you not taking to it.
Thanks wim, yes I have Mozaic and have used it and your scripts (and edits of same) to run things in AUM!
Yes, loopy pro and I just could not get on
So, what do you think? Just a knob to select the song (bank), then send the scene select (program change) from your keyboard? Or do you want both to happen from the phone?
Just been messing about with the Numa...seeing what gets sent when "X" button etc is pressed, or the main knob, and while I THINK I can get it to work it is so convoluted and arcane!
TBH, I think simply running all from the phone might be best....umm, probs knob for bank (CC0) and tabs for songs (CC32) would work I'd think....and although it is a 15 pro with a relatively large screen I think the knob would need to be reasonably large for "quick" grab on stage...or even a tab for it too, but then that would necessitate more tabs assigned to alternate banks, yes?
Knob size isn't adjustable in Mozaic, and there aren't tabs either.
Surface Builder would probably be better. But that's another app expense if you don't already have it.
Hey, it's an iOS app, it won't be that exxy - happy to buy it if it will work
EDIT: it's only $23 and I might even be able to figure it out myself...will let you know - thanks for the heads-up on it...would never have found it I don't think
For my solo gigs I'll just use my ipad and a chart reader, but for the band (as apple have not yet figured a way to send a screen iPad to iPad without wires), I need to use the Air mirrored out to the singers ipad.
Actually, put a hold on all of the above!
The most important bit (relying on Apple!!!) and it does not work!
Having a major issue in connecting both hotspot and blue-tooth between iPhone 15 and macbook Air M1.
After online searches it seems it is a known issue, but none of the fixes have worked. Restart, reset, change the order in which either is started etc etc!
Would anyone here have any suggestions?
What do you need the hot spot for? BLE Midi doesn't need it.
Trying to connect iPhone to Macbook....keeps reporting it is not compatible!
And after researching it seems it is a MAJOR issue for a lot of people!!
So without capability to use bluetooth this whole scheme comes crashing down hahaha!
But, hotspot has nothing to do with connecting iPhone to MacBook via Bluetooth MIDI.
I think you’re confusing this with a Network Session connection. That uses WiFi. There’s a way to set that up using a hotspot, but it’s not what you need here.
To make a Bluetooth MIDI connection, find the Audio/MIDI Setup app on the Mac. Go to the window menu and select to show the MIDI setup window. Find the Bluetooth icon there and tap on it. Turn on advertising. Now you should see it on the phone as available to connect to in the standard Bluetooth MIDI peripheral connection dialog.
(You can also do it the other way around by advertising from the phone’s Bluetooth “Central” dialog. You will then see it as available to connect to in the Mac’s Bluetooth MIDI panel described above. Just pick one way or the other. Don’t advertise from both. )
Bluetooth midi is far superior to Network Session over a hotspot. You shouldn’t have any compatibility problems.
I’m not at home right now so sorry, no screenshots. Hopefully I remembered all the steps though.
Thanks - it seems that the "modern" Macos/iOS devices do not connect via Bluetooth!!
from Apple Discussions:
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jpdemers
jpdemers
User level: Level 1
89 points
Sep 17, 2022 6:22 PM in response to andré123
Modern Macs and iPhones cannot be PAIRED via Bluetooth, and there is NO NEED to pair them, so please stop trying.
They can be CONNECTED, which is a different thing entirely, and the Mac will show the connected devices.
Apple provides a raft of functions that use the Bluetooth connection. NONE of them require pairing: Use Continuity to connect your Mac, iPhone, iPad, iPod touch, and Apple Watch - Apple Support
This really should end the discussion here.
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So I checked out "Continuity" and can see nothing there that would indicate support for what I am attempting. here. IE Camelot Pro will ONLY see connected Bluetooth controllers.
And the above sorta pans out as the iPhone continually reports the Macbook as an incompatible device!
Nope, sorry neither appears in neither! (sorry for the grammar
) which seems to support the paste-in above.
I’m pretty sure you’re mistaken on that point or that there’s still some misunderstanding. But I’m not in position to try to troubleshoot it further.
Continuity has nothing to do with BLE Midi or Network Connection. It’s all about MIDI. Camelot will recognize any midi connection once it’s established. It won’t care if it’s a Bluetooth, Network, or USB MIDI
Anyway - sorry it’s not working out. I hope you find a solution.
Thanks, but there is none...well not as far as controlling via BT and the iphone! What MacOS are you using? I am on latest iOS and Sonoma. Everything thing I have found online for the past year has been the same, NO bluetooth connection between the iPhone and Mac that needs to be/or can be manually paired. It is apparently auto!
I did try seeing if Camelot "sees" it, but nothing! Might need to be a liaison with them I think.
Haha, could have saved $23 , but I just sorta assumed it would just work as it was Apple! Should have learned from another project a while back.
Anyway, thanks for your attempts!
Did you actually go into Audio MIDI Setup, open the MIDI Studio window, click the advertise button, then check in the Bluetooth MIDI connection (Peripheral) dialog on the iPhone? I don't believe this has changed at all in latest MacOS updates or "Modern" Macs.
Macbook MIDI Connection Studio > Bluetooth Configuration window:
iOS Bluetooth MIDI Peripheral connection dialog in AUM:
Yes, yes yes - did all of that, even before you posted it. Simple fact is Macbook and iPhone can not be paired. Should I link you to the Apple discussions on this? Image below shows exactly where this sits and stops.
iPhone never appears....
and if I try in reverse IE do it on the phone when I can get the mac to show when restarting BT, I tap on it and in about 10 seconds it reports back it is incompatible!
So something has changed in these latest OSs? Unless you are running Sonoma and iOS 17.x and are rather, relying on your "old" setup, then of course you will always see it as available!
I did note you bypassed the question re your OS