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Can expression parameters get recorded and edited as midi? (Specifically in Cubasis)
Just double checking. I’m thinking of buying an Arturia MK2 midi controller. Will an expression pedal record as midi information as well as the mod and pitch wheels? Is it a matter of assigning CC’s? I’ve never done that. I assume it’s no problem?
Comments
I think the choice of MIDI recorder is also an important consideration.
The whole selling point of MIDI Tape Recorder (Geert Bevin/Uwyn) was "it records any and all MIDI, and we mean everything", for example.
Yep definitely dependant on midi recorder
And also, be sure to know you want to do with it, then make sure thats a feature
Midi Tape Record will record everything, but it's not editable (moving any notes or corrections is not possible). It purely records the midi to be reused exactly as is... Though EVERYTHING is recorded
I want to say (on the editable front) Xequence can capture MPE, and I think Atom
But there are minor drawbacks to each in their own way, but I don't remember nuances or why I chose Xequence over Atom at the time
I picked up Xequence for this exact purpose on the last sale, but haven't had time to learn anything about it yet (or get /any/ use... Yet. Priority shifts and all)
There will be more knowledgeable people to answer better shortly, I'm sure
But there are a handful of things to keep an eye out for as this is still a VERY early stage in the world of MPE fuckery, and one might be missing a feature you're specifically needing
Atom can't edit anything but notes.
Oh, thank you!
But it does still record MPE, correct? (just not editable afterwards?)
And does Xequence allow for editing recorded expression?
Just wanna make sure I'm correctly understanding the differences as well
I am sure cubasis will record expression cc11 but does it record sustain cc64?
I like the m-audio expression pedal.
@PapaBPoppin i understand. Perhaps you change pitch, delete? Or is it simply nuthin?
Midi Tape Recorder, mentioned above, is free and will record the lot effortlessly, albeit with no ability to edit. Of course, though, if you do have a need to edit you can then send (or export) that midi recorded in Midi Tape Recorder to something that does allow MPE editing (Xequence2? Not sure, I never edit mpe data)
Midi Tape Recorder has a slightly unintuitive UI but a short and useful manual.
@Gavinski so I can’t record directly into Cubasis? Btw, it’s $10.
I don't use Cubasis, it is supposed to have mpe support but I remember some grumbling about how well it worked. Maybe change thread title to 'Does Cubasis have flawless MPE support?' and get some informed opinions.
Wow, I wonder if I remember wrongly that midi tape recorder used to be free. Anyway, as u say, it is 10 bucks now, yes.
what gives you the impression that you can't record midi cc's in cubasis?
lol, Edward, I thought I could until this thread. Now I ask the question… how much midi editing can I do in Cubasis? I’ve recorded SWAM strings and brass with vibrato. I think I could change pitch and delete. Is that the case?
Helium from 4pockets can't do this?
I don't have cubasis. record some cc's and find out.
I believe the title should be changed to "How can I record midi expression in Cubasis?"
I'm unfamiliar with how Cubasis handles plugins, never used it
However I've been diving into other options for expressive midi recording personally, but only veeeery lightly, dead middle of actively learning tho
But definitely a Cubasis specific question that should be stated in the title for ease of knowledgeable people to be drawn in to share relevant insight
A. That's gorram brilliant! Use it as intended, but a relatively quick workaround if the need arises (for system load, use MTR on the reg, but only load editor as needed)
B. HAH Been down this same rabbit hole recently!! Here's the breadcrumbs:
It was (and IS) free (kinda) - the compilable code is on GitHub and it was released initially as free, but in July went to $10 (thanks, AppRaven, for verifying)
Just use a bt controller for the expression pedal ( so it outputs a different cc than 64 ) to be mapped to the exposed parameter in host.
Assuming the host has the capabilty to expose, record, edit.
You could use aum even. Not use a bt controller. Output the sustain via back of piano and cc64 because aum lets you map 64 but use drambo as your piano roll in aum. Make it then cc capture and piano roll.
Unsure if you can map cc64 to a knob in Drambo inside aum because you cant in drambo, hence the need for a bt controller or as wim, rs200, uncledave, produced. A script for streambyter which converts the output of sustain to a different cc. To then be mapped to exposed parameter.
With a hardware controller to convert cc ( The irig blueboard )
Theres x 2 outputs in case you need x 2 pedal outputs.
I regularly record in Cubasis from a wind controller, and breath expression is preserved. I can't see how a CC pedal should be any different - might require mapping to a target parameter is all.
Linear dosent use mpe I dont think. All parameters would be cc so editable.
Tbh I only use pitchbend of an mpe keyboard and not even cc 74.
So opt to not edit ( although midi to a load of swams might need an ipad upgrade ) or go midi to audio etc.
Theres moves with the pitchbend from mpe though.
Say you pitchbend via keyboard. Your other hand then does flutters, vibrato and vib rate etc via cc controller. Different parameters in sync with your pitchbend movement.
Which you could instead replicate with cc editing but you wouldnt be able to do the move live.
Move quite nice with brass because of the more pitch bend range compared to other instruments
but the pitch bend is good for quick wiggle movements on a note. Which you probably couldnt do via cc knob ( an encoder anyway )
Obviously not editing swams has probably has more drawbacks, then what you gain with live playing control.
The dillema in a nutshell.
Sustain editing sorted.
As many parameters as you need per swam ( some have up to 8 mapped )
Theres 6 for the trumpet in demo.
I could gain editing of all parameters but pitchbend via mpe slides allows you use other hand for ccs in between slides.
It probably wouldnt be the same if you slide>cc>slide>cc etc.
So growls and vibrato rates at points in the slides.
Capturing all midi cc for the sake of the slides is a lot to give up.
I guess you can layer midi for same effect without slides from mpe.
Hopefully devs might just work on capturing pitchbend via mpe as a priority.
What would you do?
Give up pitchbend here and trying working with audio or non edited mpe recorder to multi swams.
Or all editable cc and sort out your song as midi layers etc.
Mr Annoying lol
This is what you lose out on ( if you use a modwheel for pitchbend )
and not let slides from keyboard hand do the pitch bend, instead.
Thought this type of pitchbend wernt needed but it were for Star Trek theme ( iv just realised )
and can sometimes make similar to the star trek theme.
Whether they used trumpet or theremin.
Ouch @sigma79, i think this may all be beyond. I’m a plug and play man. I did learn enough Cubasis to suit my needs, however. It’s a nice piece of kit with a metal case. I could just set it up and look at it and think I’m cool.
Yes, Xequence will record and playback both per-note and channel expression perfectly and both are editable.
+7 for Xequence 😉
@LinearLineman: Cubasis records and lets you edit mid cc events—including sustain pedal (cc64).
I were just writing.
Would check cubasis with an expression pedal but thought you couldnt midi map au. Only fx.
It does, but not completely accurately in all cases. For instance, it will not record Animoog Z's midi output accurately enough to sound right on playback. ymmv for less sensitive MPE applications.
Ok, fantastic to know thanks!
Yep, you got it! I’ve used an expression pedal with my Arturia controller before, and it works just like the mod and pitch wheels. You’ll just need to assign it to a specific CC number in your DAW. I found it pretty easy to set up, and it definitely adds a lot of control.
The term expression in this title seems to have caused people to jump to a need for recording MPE, where the expression parameter is a property of each different note played.
But a conventional expression pedal connected to a MIDI keyboard is transmitted as a simple CC, possibly CC11, which you can use and record the same as any other CC. So this should not be a problem.
lol, @uncledave you’re absolutely right! I didn't carefully consider what I was asking. I changed the title.
What do you mean mpe parameters?
Do you mean does Cubasis record and play back MPE?
Is the Arturia controller mpe-capable?