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The best guitar tone and does it even matter to use it to record live
I've used a bunch of platforms and pedals and software for guitar amps and effects.
Lately, I've been GASing a bit for Fractal, maybe a used FM3, to get some clue if this Holy Grail is all that better than my Strymon Iridium or beloved THU and Nembrini tones.
But the thought has just hit me -- maybe I don't need the best tones when I creating or jamming or initially capturing my guitar. Maybe I just need enough, for example, to get the basic feel of a tone as I play it. And record the tone dry. Then re-amp. Has anyone done this?
If so, my gut says the best final guitar tone would come from re-amping that dry audio using the best software plug-in, probably using a desktop DAW. I'd think that would be a heck of a lot cheaper than Fractal or any other top-line hardware amp modeler.
Thoughts?
Comments
IMO nothing compares to the fractal axe Fx 3
With thats said it’s cheaper to just do what you said and it sounds ALMOST as good
I always dial in my tone in post production (usually Neural DSP on desktop). I record with my go-to plugin and then tweak/swap the plugin & other FX afterwards. Much more flexible this way as you can adjust for the mix instead of forcing a tone in advance.
Nobody worries about guitar tone except for other guitarists and, really, it's subjective and who cares in the end? I would say that the most important thing is to get the tone that makes you inspired and productive.
Go for the amp sim that feels and plays good at the moment you record your performance. If you're "in phase" with your setting, this will translate in your performance. That's the only thing that matters. Feel. A great performance on a cheap amp sim will sound better than a shitty performance on a Fractal...
Once you get the right performance, You can reamp later and get great result with what you already have with some tweaking and good choice of IR. Nembrini apps, some capture packs in THU, Tonex are definitely the best on iOS for now. Gigfast is also very good.
That being said, the most difficult to translate for amp Sims is the feel of a real amp. I have been extremely impressed by UAFX FX, especially the Ruby (Vox AC30) which is next on my purchase list. This thing feels and sound like a real AC30 !
Fractal is an incredibly great piece of gear but it is a bit of an overkill and too expensive for what it is if you consider what can be achieved with lot cheaper plugins. Even the amp sim in GarageBand Can sound great...😉.Having too much choice doesn't necessarily lead to great results...
same as comment as part of what @Jankun said, it's not so much about the sound it more how the instrument and the amp/sound source feel together when you play, that's the key. latency is another factor; a true analogue source will have almost zero latency. as you add other digital conversion/effects the latency increases, this also effects the feel.
i feel its missed a lot in music discussion as you can't really show to others how the sound feels to play.
There’s no comparing what you can with an axe Fx - that’s simply ridiculous - and if you can afford/want an fm3 or 9 I would def say that is the best choice for a modeler (pre)amp
The real question is how much of a guitarist are you? if you consider yourself a good guitarist and want the absolute best hardware , interface and tone etc then FM3 or FM9 is undoubtedly it
If you aren’t super serious about guitar , and you don’t have external amplification like a powered cab then just stick to a plugin
(You can reamp with fractal in your daw)
It's vitally important to forever chase the perfect tone. Otherwise there's nothing else to do to keep yourself from practicing and becoming great. I'm so thankful I learned that early on. It has saved me from stardom, sex, drugs, and the horrible filthiness of riches.
With current setup, I can send a dry signal to my Akai MPC and use the Nembrini Strymon + Eventide H9 for a nice guitar amp and FX tone to hear while I play in my studio. I also have iPad THU and Nembrini apps to use.
I would then use Reaper and VSTs to reamp for something better. Would probably try Neural DSP first; they have some Demos.
I did that when I recorded on a desktop DAW.
At some point it can be helpful to strip everything back to the bare recording and start over. It's possible to go too far and it's not always easy to tell when (for me at least). :-)
😂😂😂
I’ve been through a lot of gear over the years and have been eyeing a used FM3 lately. But honestly, I’ve been thinking maybe I don’t need the absolute best tones right off the bat. I’ve had good results just recording my guitar dry and then re-amping later with high-quality plugins. It’s way cheaper than dropping big money on top-tier gear and often gives you a lot of flexibility in the mix. I’ve had some pretty awesome results doing this, so it might be worth trying before shelling out for that Fractal.
GigFast is pretty solid, I recommend It
Nembrini is impressive , but you have to know what you want cuz they ain’t cheap
I also think tonex isn’t bad if you want hybrid of hardware and software
Just use an amp instead of all that nonsense?
..
TBH, a lot of times I'll just use the modest guitar amp and FX in the MPC, or even in my Tascam DP mixer. Either way, i could start also recording a dry signal.
And, yeah, I have a good amp, a Quilter MicroPro. It's faster to use the onboard stuff with the MPC or Tascam.
You will never be happy with the tone ever no matter what you buy. It’s like a junkie chasing a high.
Just enjoy playing, and playing great.
SRV playing a squire through an 80s peavey 10 watt combo, would still sound exactly like SRV
Fractal is only the best, undisputed [pre] amp in the world, Used by every pro guitarist worthy of mention. The fm3 is an extremely lite version (of the best amp) so I don’t think it’s a nonsense question or idea. Serious guitarists understand the value of this hardware, and this is an electronic music forum, so I would consider what your favorite amps are, how much you want to spend, and if you want to have the option to have multiple amps and rigs (heads, rack fx, cabs, whcih mics you want to sim recording) and if the answer is only one brand or amp, just get a nembrini of that. If it’s a few choices, get GigFast. If an intermediate who plans on using it for years, the fm3 gets my vote.
Again; what kind of guitarist are you/do you want to be?
There is no “best”.
Just try everything and pick what appeals to you most.
Fractal is the best - I’m an electric guitarist , not an electronic musician - so for once I know what I’m talking about definitively and can say it without any hesitation. Anyone who actually has used or heard the fractal machines knows this, or as I said, serious and professional guitarist know you cannot match or compete with fractal. It is “the best.”
You can get what’s “best for you,” but just like Apple is “the best,” fractal is “the best.”
So again . It’s are you good enough or will you be good enough of a guitarist to warrant owning the absolute best and pay hundreds , or are you a casual/beginner who probably won’t gig , use it live, or bother much with external amps?
If you want better opinions on this, I suggest you go to the Fractal, Kemper, etc forums to ask; this clearly isn’t the forum to ask about premier guitar tech gear and guitars lol
I agree with the above comments that say it's more about feel. If it inspires you to play in a new way, then go for it. But at the same time, like Jmd8928 says, it is also a junky seeking a high.
You've got the Iridium. Have you tried loading custom IRs into it? My friend loaded York Audio's Matchless IRs into it and the sound was phenomenal. I'd be surprised if you're would get a 'day-and-night' difference with Fractal.
Watch out for the hype - don't let it hypnotize you.
After dipping my toes with a spark amp(and many plugins), I ended up jumping in the deep end with a Quad Cortex.
My friend gave me a Dan Electro and I couldn’t be happier. I feel this thing with every note.
I’ll be paying for it forever, but so worth it.
FWIW, I have a few pieces of gear that feel like the end of my quest for that type of instrument. I have an Oberheim OB-6 synth, and Ernie Ball music man guitar, and a GnL bass.
So something like a fractal could be the end of the amp quest. Doesn’t mean there isn’t better or more expensive options but at a certain point you realize that the money is not going to get you much better for what really counts.
Point is well-taken about using some IR’s on the iridium. I bought some ownHammer IR‘s last year and used them on my iOS THU and Nembrini apps. And I was surprised how it made things sound better.
I haven’t done that with the Iridium yet.
@joegrant413 said:
Wow if you have EBMM then the fm3 is screaming for you if u ask me!
Thx, folks. After some Youtubing this weekend, I'm leaning towards using my Iridium. I can still record a dry signal, then use some gear to take that signal through my pedals and the Iridium.
Surprised, btw, that a number of Youtubers are saying that Fractal / Helix / Quad Cortex are all basically tied at the top.
For a modeler in the box, the Iridium is considered pretty darn good.
I do need to make a modest pedalboard and protective case due to the cats, but that's cheaper than getting an FM3
For me a big part of the appeal of the Iridium is its simplicity. I don't want a million options in one box, I just want simple, great tone, and that's what the pedal delivers. It's like an amp: minimal controls, you just dial in your tone and go.
I leave it on the Fender setting 99% of the time, and rarely mess with the cab and tone controls, I just leave my preferred sound dialled in.
Yeah, I used to have a real Fender DRRI. Great tone and base for pedals.
So I lean toward "Round" on the Iridium, and Fender in general on other modelers if I want a good base tone.
Glad you found your method and gear/device
(And YT will say anything for their content but fractal is beyond their grasp; now Kemper USED to be as good for amp/cab replication tone, IMO it was better than the axe 2 and the Kemper pedalboard - and helix and quad cortex are ALMOST there, I’m sure in the next versions everything will be fairly equal, but fractal still reigns; and FWIW having the best gear doesn’t mean anything if you can’t use it)
Thank you !!
Actually most of what I know about my HX Stomp XL, I learned from this very same person - John Nathan Cordy.
He does talk a lot, but copying what he does with amp model settings, mic settings (distance to speaker, mic model, etc.), and so on has been quite educational, and possibly applicable to other gear.
In my experience it depends on where the guitar sits in the mix and the band. In my rock-n-roll band it isn't as important which modeler I use. As a matter of fact I use some parametric EQ so that it sits good in the mix but actually sounds quite horrible by itself (missing a lot of high and low end). I play in a church P&W band and tone and especially effect quality is more important.