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I can see new forms emerging though, prompts written as poetry with clever uses of double meanings a knowledge of the system to create combinations not seen before, all things are possible. Just so much of what’s being passed off at the moment is incredibly low effort, and it shows in audience antipathy…
I am mostly interested in the creation section of this forum. And to be honest, I find that it has generally become a less enjoyable place to hang, mainly due to what I consider the AI pollution. I came to the point where I despise those AI generated things (cannot convince me to call that art) as much as advertisement. Though I must admit that I initially jumped on the train for a while to create some of my artwork, mea culpa.
It is undeniable that AI will play a bigger and bigger role in our lives, but on the other hand, and judging by the different reactions on this thread, wouldn't it be good for everyone to establish clear space on this forum where each one of us could enjoy according to our own position on the AI topic?
Not being a tech savvy, I have no idea how hard it would be to implement such a thing. maybe a good starting point would be to create a section dedicated to AI. Those who want to share their AI generated things could do it freely there without bothering people who still care about human generated art. @Michael would it be hard to do?
https://tenor.com/bjFc8.gif
(Well this worked a treat, can’t the AI guys fix it for me😅😂)
Wow.
...because of how some people use the available technology.
Can you stop them from doing so?
Certainly not.
For me it rather boils down to the question how I'm going to deal with it.
And I hope that schools and education in general will adapt quickly enough.
That’s an interesting phrase: “human artistic creativity.”
What is “art”? What is “creativity”? Those are very subjective terms and both are built on millennia of previously existing work.
Is there an art to good programming? Yes. Must a programmer be very creative to be effective? Yes.
I’d argue A.I. itself is an expression of human creativity and is built on the foundation of all human creation.
I hate to hear that. I had hoped you would be open to a collaboration but if you despise AI I'm glad I didn't trouble you with a request.
If the community would prefer I'll stop sharing my AI videos here. I like working with people I've met here and I'm grateful for the opportunity to collaborate with such a talented group of folks but I don't want to be an annoyance.
The Stable Diffusion subreddit recently changed their rules and they don't allow people to post videos made using services, just things made locally with open source tools. I just don't understand why some people seem to have an issue with scrolling past content they don't like. But I'm not interested in posting content where it isn't welcome so if thats the consensus here too, I'll keep my content where it's appreciated and appropriate.
I have noticed previously many people expressing interest in drumming tools which generate rhythmic patterns for them. And chord progression tools which are used to fill in gaps in people’s musical knowledge or to speed production. Or even something as seemingly mundane as the “Mastering” button in Logic Pro… Does use of these tools diminish the work of people or do these tools help them to express their own ideas faster and more easily?
You shouldn't stop doing what you like, Max. If you enjoy it, Keep on doing and sharing. But I sincerely hope there could be a place dedicated to it.
I am honoured that you considered asking for collaboration, but I must be honest, I recently took the decision that none of my music would be associated with AI, or at least on the pure creative part.
It is not only a matter of how it currently looks that bothers me (I am sure it will get better and better). I just cannot agree with the whole thing from an artistic point of view. Some people think that the result only matters. They're free to believe so. But I personally believe that the way one takes to get there matters as much as the results itself if not more. erasing the human factor from the whole creative process is simply wrong to me. I am sorry if I sound harsh but I cannot lie. recent music videos of old time artist like Pink Floyd or Peter Gabriel left me cold, emotionless and bored. I just can't. I am currently planning to replace all my AI generated art work too.
I think everything you make and post here is interesting and the forums would be poorer without your efforts.
It’s absolutely fine that people like one thing and not another. I don’t think it’s fine to discriminate based on arbitrary standards and matters of completely subjective personal taste.
Now, that (the latest few pages of this thread) was a satisfying read to accompany my morning coffee. 😎
What a great discussion.
@brambos and @klownshed, you are especially killing it. Not in the sense of strengthening my misgivings, but of giving substance to those I haven't been able to put my finger on.
I'm not for or against AI. I'm fatalistic about it. There's not a damn thing anyone can do about what is coming. All I can do is try to sort out my feelings about it as it evolves, and find where I choose to fit in (or out). It's gonna be mostly out for me 'cause frankly it just seems like no fun at all other than to marvel at it from a geeky perspective.
If I could have my own darkroom I'd be totally down for that.
🙂 I’m going to be very blunt, when I first started seeing artwork and images being generated using these new tools just a few years ago, it really did depress me knowing that someone without a lifetime of study and effort could suddenly create brilliantly accomplished visual works with relative ease, instantly ending my career. But the more I used these services myself I started to notice that when the system is given maximal leeway, the results would often go off the rails because generative systems have no intent. Intent is still the domain of the human being making the request, so intentional choices yield more interesting results. I’m no longer opposed to or reticent to use these tools with purpose in mind.
But is it as fun? (Genuine question.)
My experience is yes, and no. There’s a certain novelty factor that wore off really quickly for me, maybe after a few months. What I’ve said repeatedly is that there’s just not enough granular control for someone like me who’s spent over three decades creating moving image. You can’t say that the tech won’t evolve to the point where it has that control, but as it stands it’s evolving in what seems to me to be a far slower way than was expected. It’s almost diminishing returns, and the focus seems to be on ‘quality of image’ as opposed to building useful toolsets. That’s being left to a hotch pitch of enthusiastic amateurs, who haven’t yet organised themselves in such a way as to be as effective as say the blender foundation has been.
It’s still very early days in my mind, the tech is being embedded into some systems that are mature (photoshop being a case in point) and that can be genuinely useful, but mostly it’s different systems competing with one another for wow factor short term gains. There’s been talk for months that the VC vultures are circling and wondering where their money’s gone too, and once those walls start crumbling there’ll be a lot of cheap GPUs up for grabs 😅
I do actually have my own darkroom. I develop my own film. Usually I scan the negatives but there's nothing like actually making your own B*W prints. Seeing them appear in the tray never ceases to be like magic. I wish I had more time to use the darkroom. I print very infrequently but I still develop my own film fairly regularly.
I like film photography. And digital photography. I like photography.
For me the answer is a resounding "Yes".
I've written songs in a traditional way, charting out a chord progression, writing lyrics, trying to figure out a pleasing melody and working it over and over again until it feels like a song.
I've made videos using public domain footage from the Internet Archive ( there's a whole different discussion) as well as things I've made with more traditional tools.
Back in High School I was in commercial art and drew things by hand. I was never the best in my class but I wasn't horrible.
It's the same kind of satisfaction. You still have to figure out how to make it all fit together. You still have to imagine a concept and then work within the limits of your tools and talent to make something, be it an image, a story, or a video.
@Krupa - That pretty much sums up my experience. There's the novelty factor of creating an image of "a water color painting of a stream in a redwood forest with ferns and moss covered rocks" and creatively manipulating the prompts to get it the way you like. But that almost immediately feels empty for me. Picking up some water color supplies, sketching something out, and experimenting with learning the medium results in some pretty crap looking paintings littering the room, but is immensely satisfying. I'll dabble with AI, and use it where it relieves the drudgery of tasks I don't enjoy, but it'll never have a major place in my creative process because that just ends up feeling hollow (for me personally).
I can totally see how it's satisfying for people wired differently than me though.
On a lighter note, although i generally wish harm on A.I. and its family, i do find myself enjoying it for simple cooking recipes lately, and for no other reason than being able to skip the adverts. It’s a much faster process of prepping and cooking with what I have at home. If anyone here has ever used online recipes, you know what i mean. It’s the equivalent of visiting a pron site.
But I also already had the basic principles of cooking down prior to using AI, so that if i see bleach listed among the ingredients, as an example, I immediately know that i shouldn’t use too much of it.
Yeah I can definitely understand the challenge being appealing to some, my problem is I’ve always got other fish to fry and I’m pretty sure I can’t sell the outputs to my clients (both creatively and legally).
I did try to incorporate it into the production process of one of my own films, and maybe I’ll go back to it at some point as I did like the way it took my rough 3D and watercoloured it in a way that would be nigh on impossible with standard tools. but the challenge of balancing nice output with almost no effect was really quite irritating and distracted from the actual creative work I needed to do with the piece at the time.
I think these tools turn individuals into idea people. They remove technique and become an engine for pure creation. You assign a task to the generative system worker with as much or as little detail as you like and you get back something as mundane or brilliant as the request itself. Yes, it's fun.
Good answer. Thanks.
For commercial purposes, I see no path forward that isn't tightly integrated with these tools. There's just no way back. More or less "instant" results, which are great for the bottom line and cutting costs and they are completely acceptable for advertising, art, videos, movies (soon, especially since people like James Cameron and movie studios are now getting involved). For the individual who cares more about process, technique and their own self-enrichment, the traditional tools are not going away.
Why did AI make him such a poor singer? They couldn't have given him some chops?
Definitely. Anyone who thinks they can compete commercially without embracing AI is doomed.
I've no doubt that there will be revolutionaries that find ways to break the mold creatively, and that they will have huge success. The Rock, Punk, Rap, etc, revolutions amply proved that in the music world. But for business and everyday life it's ludicrous to think AI's influence can be avoided. Though I suppose going off-grid is a valid (and personally rather attractive) course.
Creatively and intellectually though for me personally. AI has zero. I mean zero attraction. I can entertain myself with it for a few minutes, but that's about it.
I fed ChatGPT a corpus of my poems, which have a very distinctive style, and asked it to write new ones in the same style. The output was completely worthless and unusable. Nothing remotely inspiring or even interesting.
I have a similar negative response to every AI photo, song, or movie I've encountered. The technology seems a long way off from being able to produce art with any depth.
Yeah I mean more a totally new form, glass bead game type thing where the whole thing is an interaction between human thought and the feedback from the machine. I do think the real future of it is some worry of dream machine where we inhabit worlds partly of our own creation, partly themed or styled or concepted by the ‘directors’ of this new medium. Though the power consumption of this being used by millions/billions all at once will be horrifying unless we figure out some better ways to make it all much more efficient and other ways of generating the power…
AI seems the logical next step beyond specific-use pattern generators and sampling/collage art. Very few people can make compelling art with those techniques, but there are always a few who do.
It seems to me to take the fun out of art. The main reward of art is in the making, and the more you outsource the less rewarding it is.
And most of the output is devoid of interest for me. I'd rather listen to a beginner guitarist struggle with three chords in his living room than listen to the AI stuff I've encountered to date.
What's the old saying? "Ninety percent of everything is crap." (Sturgeon's Law)
But that more of less just proves the point... that everything is subjective.
I think for or against AI as a category is an unhelpful way to think about it for a number of reasons. One is that AI isn’t a specific technology. It encompasses a huge range of technologies.
Even for a particular technology, say LLMs, there are lots of use-cases, one might object to one way of deploying it but not others.
One might reasonably find that one of the technologies is beneficial but that the way it is implemented and deployed is objectionable.
Feeding text to ChatGPT isn't actually doing any sort of training or fine tuning on the model and definitely not indicative of what AI/ML generators are capable of. There are much better open source tools for this.