Apple, Patreon and subscription based payment.

Gravitas

Patreon are now being forced by Apple to use subscription based payment
via the Patreon app on iOS which will mean a 30% rise in transactions.
For anyone who has a Patreon and doesn't know this I will be surprised
however for those who don't know have a read here.

https://news.patreon.com/articles/understanding-apple-requirements-for-patreon

Gavinski

@Gravitas said:
Patreon are now being forced by Apple to use subscription based payment
via the Patreon app on iOS which will mean a 30% rise in transactions.
For anyone who has a Patreon and doesn't know this I will be surprised
however for those who don't know have a read here.

https://news.patreon.com/articles/understanding-apple-requirements-for-patreon

Yes, worth pointing out the details tho:

A. Will only apply to payments made using the iOS app. The very simple alternative is to pay via the Patreon website instead using your card, PayPal etc. Actually, many companies (eg OpenAI), have simply disabled allowing payments inside the iOS app

B. This won't affect existing Patreon recurring subs via Patreon app. People who are are subbed already via the app or who sub before Nov 1st will continue to pay the regular fee, without having to pay any surplus

C. None of this will affect anybody's ability to use the Patreon app. Ability to use the app is totally separate from anything related to what platform a person pays on. Personally, I avoid the app entirely anyway, I actually deleted it from my device, as the website is slightly more full featured.

So yeah, it's not really that big a deal imo, and nobody need be affected by it unless they don't have PayPal or a bank card or whatever.

wim

Who in the heck would use a special purpose app to manage their Patreon subscriptions anyway? Wouldn't most people simply be using the web in the first place? If not, isn't all they have to do is drop using the app for that?

I guess I'm looking at it from the subscriber viewpoint only. I can see where it puts providers in a bind. I think I'd jack the prices with a big fat notice to switch to the web for payments (if that's possible).

Gavinski

@wim said:
Who in the heck would use a special purpose app to manage their Patreon subscriptions anyway? Wouldn't most people simply be using the web anyway? If not, isn't all they have to do is drop using the app for that?

Yes, this news caused a big fuss when announced but it is no big deal. See my post above

wim

@Gavinski said:

@wim said:
Who in the heck would use a special purpose app to manage their Patreon subscriptions anyway? Wouldn't most people simply be using the web anyway? If not, isn't all they have to do is drop using the app for that?

Yes, this news caused a big fuss when announced but it is no big deal. See my post above

yeh, we cross-posted while I was typing mine.

Gravitas

@Gavinski said:

@Gravitas said:
Patreon are now being forced by Apple to use subscription based payment
via the Patreon app on iOS which will mean a 30% rise in transactions.
For anyone who has a Patreon and doesn't know this I will be surprised
however for those who don't know have a read here.

https://news.patreon.com/articles/understanding-apple-requirements-for-patreon

Yes, worth pointing out the details tho:

A. Will only apply to payments made using the iOS app. The very simple alternative is to pay via the Patreon website instead using your card, PayPal etc. Actually, many companies (eg OpenAI), have simply disabled allowing payments inside the iOS app

B. This won't affect existing Patreon recurring subs via Patreon app. People who are are subbed already via the app or who sub before Nov 1st will continue to pay the regular fee, without having to pay any surplus

C. None of this will affect anybody's ability to use the Patreon app. Ability to use the app is totally separate from anything related to what platform a person pays on. Personally, I avoid the app entirely anyway, I actually deleted it from my device, as the website is slightly more full featured.

I haven't even touched the app yet.
I've only just started delving into Patreon myself and this came up.
Thanks for clarifying.

So yeah, it's not really that big a deal imo, and nobody need be affected by it unless they don't have PayPal or a bank card or whatever.

Good to know.

wim

The question is: Can a provider opt out of having people use the app for new sign-ups for subscriptions? If they do, would it stop those with existing subscriptions being able to pay that way?

Gavinski

@wim said:
The question is: Can a provider opt out of having people use the app for new sign-ups for subscriptions?

Well, for ages OpenAI have had a message in the iOS app saying something like 'IAPs are currently unavailable'. My assumption was they've switched it off so as to force people to pay via the site, preventing Apple taking a 30% slice of their profits. I'm not sure tho. In Patreon's case, they might not want to do that, as they might feel that some creators want to leave the option open for people to pay via the app. All this is speculative though.

NeuM

@wim said:
The question is: Can a provider opt out of having people use the app for new sign-ups for subscriptions? If they do, would it stop those with existing subscriptions being able to pay that way?

Why would Patreon want to do that? They'd be cutting off a widely used revenue stream. Regardless of the fee Apple collects through the app, Patreon still gets paid.

wim

@NeuM said:

@wim said:
The question is: Can a provider opt out of having people use the app for new sign-ups for subscriptions? If they do, would it stop those with existing subscriptions being able to pay that way?

Why would Patreon want to do that? They'd be cutting off a widely used revenue stream. Regardless of the fee Apple collects through the app, Patreon still gets paid.

Because there's a perfectly viable alternative where nobody has to pay the 30%. Encouraging people to go that way means no loss for either party.

The upcoming change means that either they have to eat 30% or they have to penalize the Apple app users 30%. It wouldn't make much difference, but if raising prices in the app affects existing subscribers that would be very poorly received and probably lead to dropped subscriptions.

It seems odd to me that there even is an app for this. I can't for the life of me think of why anyone would bother. But apparently some do.

NeuM

@wim said:

@NeuM said:

@wim said:
The question is: Can a provider opt out of having people use the app for new sign-ups for subscriptions? If they do, would it stop those with existing subscriptions being able to pay that way?

Why would Patreon want to do that? They'd be cutting off a widely used revenue stream. Regardless of the fee Apple collects through the app, Patreon still gets paid.

Because there's a perfectly viable alternative where nobody has to pay the 30%. Encouraging people to go that way means no loss for either party.

The upcoming change means that either they have to eat 30% or they have to penalize the Apple app users 30%. It wouldn't make much difference, but if raising prices in the app affects existing subscribers that would be very poorly received and probably lead to dropped subscriptions.

It seems odd to me that there even is an app for this. I can't for the life of me think of why anyone would bother. But apparently some do.

Oh, I understand the objection to the additional 15-30% fee (whatever is the real number) from the perspective of Patreon, but they'd lose a lot of customers if they went web-only. Apple's payment system through their App Store is far more convenient than signing up through individual vendor web sites. Consumers have proven this repeatedly by preferring apps over web sites for mobile.

wim

@NeuM said:

@wim said:

@NeuM said:

@wim said:
The question is: Can a provider opt out of having people use the app for new sign-ups for subscriptions? If they do, would it stop those with existing subscriptions being able to pay that way?

Why would Patreon want to do that? They'd be cutting off a widely used revenue stream. Regardless of the fee Apple collects through the app, Patreon still gets paid.

Because there's a perfectly viable alternative where nobody has to pay the 30%. Encouraging people to go that way means no loss for either party.

The upcoming change means that either they have to eat 30% or they have to penalize the Apple app users 30%. It wouldn't make much difference, but if raising prices in the app affects existing subscribers that would be very poorly received and probably lead to dropped subscriptions.

It seems odd to me that there even is an app for this. I can't for the life of me think of why anyone would bother. But apparently some do.

Oh, I understand the objection to the additional 15-30% fee (whatever is the real number) from the perspective of Patreon, but they'd lose a lot of customers if they went web-only. Apple's payment system through their App Store is far more convenient than signing up through individual vendor web sites. Consumers have proven this repeatedly by preferring apps over web sites for mobile.

It's not "individual web sites" it's one: Patreon. Plus, anyone using Patreon is already patronizing an individual web site, YouTube channel, etc. You know what Patreon is, don't you? The link to signing up as a Patreon would be there and would point to the same place regardless. People would need to go to the extra trouble to download the app in the first place. And they'd need to pay an additional 30% (or end up contributing 30% less) to do so.

( Humm ... I really want my $ to go 30% less far in supporting this cause. I think I better go through the app! 🤔)

I think you're way, way over-estimating the impact this would have. I'll leave off speculating though.

NeuM

@wim said:

@NeuM said:

@wim said:

@NeuM said:

@wim said:
The question is: Can a provider opt out of having people use the app for new sign-ups for subscriptions? If they do, would it stop those with existing subscriptions being able to pay that way?

Why would Patreon want to do that? They'd be cutting off a widely used revenue stream. Regardless of the fee Apple collects through the app, Patreon still gets paid.

Because there's a perfectly viable alternative where nobody has to pay the 30%. Encouraging people to go that way means no loss for either party.

The upcoming change means that either they have to eat 30% or they have to penalize the Apple app users 30%. It wouldn't make much difference, but if raising prices in the app affects existing subscribers that would be very poorly received and probably lead to dropped subscriptions.

It seems odd to me that there even is an app for this. I can't for the life of me think of why anyone would bother. But apparently some do.

Oh, I understand the objection to the additional 15-30% fee (whatever is the real number) from the perspective of Patreon, but they'd lose a lot of customers if they went web-only. Apple's payment system through their App Store is far more convenient than signing up through individual vendor web sites. Consumers have proven this repeatedly by preferring apps over web sites for mobile.

It's not "individual web sites" it's one: Patreon. Plus, anyone using Patreon is already patronizing an individual web site, YouTube channel, etc. You know what Patreon is, don't you? The link to signing up as a Patreon would be there and would point to the same place regardless. People would need to go to the extra trouble to download the app in the first place. And they'd need to pay an additional 30% (or end up contributing 30% less) to do so.

( Humm ... I really want my $ to go 30% less far in supporting this cause. I think I better go through the app! 🤔)

I think you're way, way over-estimating the impact this would have. I'll leave off speculating though.

Incidentally, there's a critically important part of this story which has been completely overlooked so far. According to Patreon's own web site:

Before we go any further, we want to be crystal clear about one thing: Apple’s fee will not impact your existing members. It will only affect new memberships purchased in the iOS app from November onward.

This means anyone who already has an account with Patreon the fee change won't even affect them. Did you know this?

https://news.patreon.com/articles/understanding-apple-requirements-for-patreon

wim

@NeuM said:

@wim said:

@NeuM said:

@wim said:

@NeuM said:

@wim said:
The question is: Can a provider opt out of having people use the app for new sign-ups for subscriptions? If they do, would it stop those with existing subscriptions being able to pay that way?

Why would Patreon want to do that? They'd be cutting off a widely used revenue stream. Regardless of the fee Apple collects through the app, Patreon still gets paid.

Because there's a perfectly viable alternative where nobody has to pay the 30%. Encouraging people to go that way means no loss for either party.

The upcoming change means that either they have to eat 30% or they have to penalize the Apple app users 30%. It wouldn't make much difference, but if raising prices in the app affects existing subscribers that would be very poorly received and probably lead to dropped subscriptions.

It seems odd to me that there even is an app for this. I can't for the life of me think of why anyone would bother. But apparently some do.

Oh, I understand the objection to the additional 15-30% fee (whatever is the real number) from the perspective of Patreon, but they'd lose a lot of customers if they went web-only. Apple's payment system through their App Store is far more convenient than signing up through individual vendor web sites. Consumers have proven this repeatedly by preferring apps over web sites for mobile.

It's not "individual web sites" it's one: Patreon. Plus, anyone using Patreon is already patronizing an individual web site, YouTube channel, etc. You know what Patreon is, don't you? The link to signing up as a Patreon would be there and would point to the same place regardless. People would need to go to the extra trouble to download the app in the first place. And they'd need to pay an additional 30% (or end up contributing 30% less) to do so.

( Humm ... I really want my $ to go 30% less far in supporting this cause. I think I better go through the app! 🤔)

I think you're way, way over-estimating the impact this would have. I'll leave off speculating though.

Incidentally, there's a critically important part of this story which has been completely overlooked so far. According to Patreon's own web site:

Before we go any further, we want to be crystal clear about one thing: Apple’s fee will not impact your existing members. It will only affect new memberships purchased in the iOS app from November onward.

This means anyone who already has an account with Patreon the fee change won't even affect them. Did you know this?

https://news.patreon.com/articles/understanding-apple-requirements-for-patreon

Yes. Others and myself have referred to that earlier.