Analog Balanced Inputs for Speakers?

gdog

Hi,
I plan to replace my current speakers with these - https://www.thomann.co.uk/adam_audio_d3v_black.htm - I use 3.5mm (1/8inch) to connect my gear, & the speaker takes 2x6.35mm (1/4”) labelled - Analog Balanced Inputs. So I will need a Y cable that has 1male 3.5mm to 2male 6.35mm.

Problem is, I can’t seem to find a balanced version of this cable, do they exist? And are they all analog balanced? Help deciphering this jargon would be greatly appreciated. Also, I’m in the UK if you know any good places to buy.
Thanks

uncledave

Hmmm. A balanced signal is like an XLR microphone connection. Both leads are ungrounded, one side goes up when the other goes down. When they are connected to the two sides of a differential input (subtractor), any electromagnetic interference that may have affected both leads is removed. There may be a grounded shield, but it's not part of the audio circuit. A normal 3.5 mm TRS connection is unbalanced since it shares a common ground (return) line. You cannot convert the 3.5 TRS signals to balanced without transformers; it's not just about an adapter. The speakers might work with unbalanced connections (check the manual), but it would not be ideal.

I looked at the manual, and it says unbalanced would be OK, but you should keep the cable short to minimize pickup. Don't want 100 Hz muddying your bass. Note that the 1/4" jacks are actually TRS, for high, low, and shield. For unbalanced, you just use ordinary TS plugs for signal and ground, so the Ring is actually grounded.

These are pretty fancy speakers, so you'd hope to get the best performance. It may be better to connect them via USB-C, and take advantage of their high-quality DAC.

Etienne

(Thomann doesn't mention the 4ms latency, not a lot but it can be important for certain people)

Gravitas

@Etienne said:
(Thomann doesn't mention the 4ms latency, not a lot but it can be important for certain people)

That's very important.
4ms could throw off a singer.

Thanks for this.

Etienne

@Gravitas said:

@Etienne said:
(Thomann doesn't mention the 4ms latency, not a lot but it can be important for certain people)

That's very important.
4ms could throw off a singer.

Thanks for this.

It's like having analog speakers 1.4 meters further than there would actually be, and of course it's added from your daw latency.
I agree one should absolutely check the latency of DSP Studio monitors since their range can vary quite a lot. (Some people might be more educated than me since I have normal studio monitors).

But anyway, uncleDave's answer regarding the subject is right. 🙂

uncledave

@Etienne said:

@Gravitas said:

@Etienne said:
(Thomann doesn't mention the 4ms latency, not a lot but it can be important for certain people)

That's very important.
4ms could throw off a singer.

Thanks for this.

It's like having analog speakers 1.4 meters further than there would actually be, and of course it's added from your daw latency.
I agree one should absolutely check the latency of DSP Studio monitors since their range can vary quite a lot. (Some people might be more educated than me since I have normal studio monitors).

But anyway, uncleDave's answer regarding the subject is right. 🙂

(Thanx) That's a good point about the speakers having DSP. It means that they need to digitize (A/D) the analog input before processing. So the direct digital input saves a processing step, reducing noise and maybe delay as well.

Gravitas

@Etienne said:

@Gravitas said:

@Etienne said:
(Thomann doesn't mention the 4ms latency, not a lot but it can be important for certain people)

That's very important.
4ms could throw off a singer.

Thanks for this.

It's like having analog speakers 1.4 meters further than there would actually be, and of course it's added from your daw latency.

I've spent months correcting for latency on iPads.
I got that sussed now,
It does my head when the timing is off and even worse when a singer is trying to do a vocal
and the monitoring is through the DAW and they stop the session to ask politely,
"is there an effect on my voice, it sounds strange."
In other words ,'whatever that is get rid it I can't sing."

I agree one should absolutely check the latency of DSP Studio monitors since their range can vary quite a lot. (Some people might be more educated than me since I have normal studio monitors).

For listening purposes it's not really issue.
It can become an issue when recording.

But anyway, uncleDave's answer regarding the subject is right. 🙂

Agreed.

It's one of those things that any sound engineer should know.

gdog

@uncledave said:
Hmmm. A balanced signal is like an XLR microphone connection. Both leads are ungrounded, one side goes up when the other goes down. When they are connected to the two sides of a differential input (subtractor), any electromagnetic interference that may have affected both leads is removed. There may be a grounded shield, but it's not part of the audio circuit. A normal 3.5 mm TRS connection is unbalanced since it shares a common ground (return) line. You cannot convert the 3.5 TRS signals to balanced without transformers; it's not just about an adapter. The speakers might work with unbalanced connections (check the manual), but it would not be ideal.

I looked at the manual, and it says unbalanced would be OK, but you should keep the cable short to minimize pickup. Don't want 100 Hz muddying your bass. Note that the 1/4" jacks are actually TRS, for high, low, and shield. For unbalanced, you just use ordinary TS plugs for signal and ground, so the Ring is actually grounded.

These are pretty fancy speakers, so you'd hope to get the best performance. It may be better to connect them via USB-C, and take advantage of their high-quality DAC.

Thanks for the reply @uncledave I will be using usb-c for things that have usb-c, but alot of my gear has 3.5mm only. Re cable length: I don't think I need them to be that long maybe 1-3metres, so maybe this would be ok? https://www.thomann.co.uk/cordial_cfy_15_wpp.htm OR https://www.thomann.co.uk/cordial_cfy_3_wpp.htm ?

FYI, I haven't upgraded my speakers for years, but since my current ones are making annoying loud popping sounds every so often, I thought it's time for something new & improved . Since my space is a small-ish desk, it was a toss up between Adam Audio's D3Vs & IKM's iLoud Micro Monitors. While the iLouds are smaller & have a 3.5mm input (yes I know 3.5mm isn't great, but it's v.convenient for me), I've heard reports that they break quite easily, ie one speaker will stop working/etc, ie they're not durable/reliable. I'm hope the D3Vs will be higher quality, & from what I've seen/heard they appear to be, but we shall see..

Thanks for all the replies guys, any further insights are welcome!

Syn

@uncledave said:
Hmmm. A balanced signal is like an XLR microphone connection. Both leads are ungrounded, one side goes up when the other goes down. When they are connected to the two sides of a differential input (subtractor), any electromagnetic interference that may have affected both leads is removed. There may be a grounded shield, but it's not part of the audio circuit. A normal 3.5 mm TRS connection is unbalanced since it shares a common ground (return) line. You cannot convert the 3.5 TRS signals to balanced without transformers; it's not just about an adapter. The speakers might work with unbalanced connections (check the manual), but it would not be ideal.

I looked at the manual, and it says unbalanced would be OK, but you should keep the cable short to minimize pickup. Don't want 100 Hz muddying your bass. Note that the 1/4" jacks are actually TRS, for high, low, and shield. For unbalanced, you just use ordinary TS plugs for signal and ground, so the Ring is actually grounded.

These are pretty fancy speakers, so you'd hope to get the best performance. It may be better to connect them via USB-C, and take advantage of their high-quality DAC.

How is the xlr balanced sig any different to to a 1/4 trs or 3.5trs, they are all 3 conductor cable. ?

Gravitas

@Syn said:

@uncledave said:
Hmmm. A balanced signal is like an XLR microphone connection. Both leads are ungrounded, one side goes up when the other goes down. When they are connected to the two sides of a differential input (subtractor), any electromagnetic interference that may have affected both leads is removed. There may be a grounded shield, but it's not part of the audio circuit. A normal 3.5 mm TRS connection is unbalanced since it shares a common ground (return) line. You cannot convert the 3.5 TRS signals to balanced without transformers; it's not just about an adapter. The speakers might work with unbalanced connections (check the manual), but it would not be ideal.

I looked at the manual, and it says unbalanced would be OK, but you should keep the cable short to minimize pickup. Don't want 100 Hz muddying your bass. Note that the 1/4" jacks are actually TRS, for high, low, and shield. For unbalanced, you just use ordinary TS plugs for signal and ground, so the Ring is actually grounded.

These are pretty fancy speakers, so you'd hope to get the best performance. It may be better to connect them via USB-C, and take advantage of their high-quality DAC.

How is the xlr balanced sig any different to to a 1/4 trs or 3.5trs, they are all 3 conductor cable. ?

Good point.

1/4" or 1/8" TRS is Tip/Ring/Sleeve which is the same wiring as an XLR.
The difference between 6.5mm 1/4' TRS and 1/8" 3.5mm TRS is the size.
There are variations to this such as not connecting the sleeve/ground signal on one end for grounding reasons.
In some cases the polarity of the cable maybe inverted and in that case it's for phasing issues.

uncledave

@Syn said:

@uncledave said:
Hmmm. A balanced signal is like an XLR microphone connection. Both leads are ungrounded, one side goes up when the other goes down. When they are connected to the two sides of a differential input (subtractor), any electromagnetic interference that may have affected both leads is removed. There may be a grounded shield, but it's not part of the audio circuit. A normal 3.5 mm TRS connection is unbalanced since it shares a common ground (return) line. You cannot convert the 3.5 TRS signals to balanced without transformers; it's not just about an adapter. The speakers might work with unbalanced connections (check the manual), but it would not be ideal.

I looked at the manual, and it says unbalanced would be OK, but you should keep the cable short to minimize pickup. Don't want 100 Hz muddying your bass. Note that the 1/4" jacks are actually TRS, for high, low, and shield. For unbalanced, you just use ordinary TS plugs for signal and ground, so the Ring is actually grounded.

These are pretty fancy speakers, so you'd hope to get the best performance. It may be better to connect them via USB-C, and take advantage of their high-quality DAC.

How is the xlr balanced sig any different to to a 1/4 trs or 3.5trs, they are all 3 conductor cable. ?

No significant difference, provided they are wired with a mono balanced signal, i.e. high, low, shield. But 1/4" and 3.5 mm TRS headphone jacks are wired with unbalanced stereo signals, i.e. left, right, ground. Both connections have 3 conductors, but use them differently. The OP's question was how to split a 3.5 mm unbalanced stereo source into the two balanced 1/4" TRS jacks on the Adam speakers.