In and Output Levels - H E L P -

Vmusic

Hi,

• I have a LR Baggs piezo pickup on my violin.
• I use a Zoom U-44 audio interface

I run from the violin pickup, to the Zoom audio interface, into the iPad. Then from the Zoom main outputs directly to FOH (PA system).

My sound guy keeps telling me the output level is too low.

Please watch this video with 3 examples:1.
1. CLIP ONE - The input with plugins to help shape the sound

• an attack softener - by BlueMango
• a "pre-amp" also by BlueMango - but labeled as a gain stage
• an IR which has a violin IR to take out some of the piezo sound (commonly used by electric violin players)

2. CLIP TWO - The input with NO plugins - just the violin pickup to the audio interface and into Loopy Pro
3. CLIP THREE - The master out

All three clips are in this one video:
For the first two clips, I show the visual of the Loopy Pro Combined Input audio file loaded into Audacity - so you can see the sound wave.

QUESTIONS:
Is my input level too low?
Is my output level too low? (my sound guy swears it is)
Should I buy a hardware DI or something like this

If I need a DI where should I put it?
* After the output from the audio interface?
* or before the audio interface (from the instrument to the DI /LI then to the audio interface)

What - from a dB numbers perspective is a decent output from Loopy Pro?
Thanks In Advance!!

wim

Is that Hi-Z button on the Zoom engaged or disengaged? Should be engaged, I think.
Your input levels are too low. All else flows from that start.

Yes, your output levels are too low. They should be generally peaking around -3db if possible. Over 0db will give you clipping.

There could be gain problems on the output side as well, but you want to work from the beginning to the end of the signal chain. No point in fixing anything down the line until you get what's leading up to it properly gain staged.

Famihix

@wim said:
Is that Hi-Z button on the Zoom engaged or disengaged? Should be engaged, I think.
Your input levels are too low. All else flows from that start.

Yes, your output levels are too low. They should be generally peaking around -3db if possible. Over 0db will give you clipping.

There could be gain problems on the output side as well, but you want to work from the beginning to the end of the signal chain. No point in fixing anything down the line until you get what's leading up to it properly gain staged.

Fully agree, the output levels are too low. Try switching on the Hi-Z switch on your zoom interface (it is recommended to be switched on while using a magnetic pickup). It looks to me to be switched off in the video.

espiegel123

@Vmusic : as wim said your input levels are too low.

You would be well served to read some articles about sound mixing and levels.

Loopy’s meters are very precise and use absolute values. When the meter hits 0 db, that is the highest possible amplitude that the signal can have.

Determining whether you need something between your interface and the FOH soundboard is a separate process from getting your input levels right.

Once you have your input levels right, you would work on getting your mixer levels right.

As a separate exercise, you could load a sound file with a similar dynamic range to what you achieve. Set the master fader to achieve a peak volume that approaches but doesn’t exceed 0db. If that isn’t loud enough for FOH, turn up the interface’s output. If that isn’t loud enough talk to a competent sound reenforcement to find out what you need.

Vmusic

@espiegel123 @wim @Famihix

Thank you SO MUCH!!!
I will try engaging the Hi-z button on my audio interface and then compare the input levels. (I'm heading out of town for thanksgiving)

Here is some notes from a website on the LR Baggs violin pickup => The pickup needs to be plugged into an instrument amplifier or PA system that has an input impedance of at least 1 megaohm or higher to get the most out of this pickup. If it sounds thin and screechy, make sure to check the impedance.

I honestly am not trying to necessarily "add" something that I don't need. This is why I made the video and asked the questions on my input and output level.

Again - Thank you so much!!

Gravitas

@Vmusic said:
@espiegel123 @wim @Famihix

Thank you SO MUCH!!!
I will try engaging the Hi-z button on my audio interface and then compare the input levels. (I'm heading out of town for thanksgiving)

Here is some notes from a website on the LR Baggs violin pickup => The pickup needs to be plugged into an instrument amplifier or PA system that has an input impedance of at least 1 megaohm or higher to get the most out of this pickup. If it sounds thin and screechy, make sure to check the impedance.

You could try this or similar

https://www.thomann.co.uk/tritonaudio_bigamp_piezo.htm?glp=1&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAgJa6BhCOARIsAMiL7V9b7ofI9nZDrxJkOaSRFBp8NmUX5UrHOFVfAXool7wyn50qiU6t-y4aAm3vEALw_wcB

Vmusic

@Gravitas I appreciate the suggestion. I have, over the years tried various mics, but in the live settings where I play they never work well because of stage level noise. I didn't say that I like stage noise.... however, this is why many violin players use bridge pickups. Even these bridge pickups are somewhat subject to noise, but they fare much better. You know the deal.... they tell you there's a stage - and it's 8' by 4' and somehow you're supposed to get a drum kit, a bass amp, guitar amp and 2 vocal mic stands on it.... yeah.

FruityLoop

@Vmusic said:
@espiegel123 @wim @Famihix

Thank you SO MUCH!!!
I will try engaging the Hi-z button on my audio interface and then compare the input levels. (I'm heading out of town for thanksgiving)

Here is some notes from a website on the LR Baggs violin pickup => The pickup needs to be plugged into an instrument amplifier or PA system that has an input impedance of at least 1 megaohm or higher to get the most out of this pickup. If it sounds thin and screechy, make sure to check the impedance.

I honestly am not trying to necessarily "add" something that I don't need. This is why I made the video and asked the questions on my input and output level.

Again - Thank you so much!!

The Zoom U-44 you have should work fine with Hi-Z enabled. The impedance is 1.1 M Ohm with the Hi-Z enabled. Note that the Hi-Z only applies to input 1.

espiegel123

@Vmusic said:
@Gravitas I appreciate the suggestion. I have, over the years tried various mics, but in the live settings where I play they never work well because of stage level noise. I didn't say that I like stage noise.... however, this is why many violin players use bridge pickups. Even these bridge pickups are somewhat subject to noise, but they fare much better. You know the deal.... they tell you there's a stage - and it's 8' by 4' and somehow you're supposed to get a drum kit, a bass amp, guitar amp and 2 vocal mic stands on it.... yeah.

The zoom has input level indicator. Use it.

Turn on the hi-z switch.

Play the loudest that you will play while watching the clipping LED. Turn up the input level so that your loudest playing turns the led red. Then back off a little at a time until the loudest playing does not clip.

Repeat the process to confirm that the gain is high enough that turning it up a little will cause clipping. Give yourself a little headroom.

Now you need to check what your average playing level registers on Loopy’s input channel. If the input level is low, you probably need a compressor so that the quiet parts get louder but the loud parts don’t get louder.

You probably will need to adjust your playing to control your dynamic range. Electro-acoustic playing requires modifications of one’s technique because string instruments played “normally” have more dynamic range than is congenial for typical amplified setups.

I typically have always used a specialized pre-amp between my acoustic instruments and the mixer/interface