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Use iPad as main sequencing device for external hardware

idxidx
in General App Discussion

Hello everyone. Does anybody use iPad as core for external synths setup?
I’m thinking about sequencing multiple hardware modules, scenes with program change and midi cc automation for external gear. Using hybrid setup having auv3 + hardware sounds very interesting.

Would love to hear forum people perspective on that.

Comments

  • yellow_eyezyellow_eyez

    Drambo is just what the Dr ordered

  • GravitasGravitas

    Hiya,

    I do this all the time with my setup.

    dRambo as the core sequencer sending out midi notes,
    CC messages, PC messages and CV signals to my external hardware.

  • qqqqqq
    edited December 5

    I spent a lot of time diving deep into this and recently gave up on going this route. My goal was to use an iPad as a brain with hardware for live performance, but it just wasn't worth it.

    A few of the reasons why:

    • iOS for music can be fiddly/unstable: iOS wasn't built for music first, and can be a pain to deal with. Even if the device itself is fine (and something isn't broken by an update) once you throw audio interfaces into the mix things can get extremely flakey. You may have to start devices in a certain order, restart devices, etc.
    • AUv3s also are unstable: AUv3s can crash. This has overall gotten better but its still a problem. Even if they don't crash, there can be a lot of weirdness when you try to automate AUv3 parameters.
    • MIDI latency woes: Using miRack and Drambo I found that a lot of MIDI generation options do not have tight timing. I was often hitting drift of up to 10ms between different sequencers running at the same time. Its worth noting that "non-module" Drambo sequencer was fine, but I wanted to more alternative forms of sequencing.
    • Switching between tracks is slow: Even if a project loads without something crashing, loading projects can be slow and is painful to deal with. This isn't great for live performance. You can work around this by running sound from another application during transfers, or even routing audio back into your iPad via your interface and looping, but all of this is pretty fiddly.
    • Hardware sequencers can be more expressive: This is subjective for sure, but I just find dealing with hardware step sequencers to be better for the type of music I create. I just like turning on/off step buttons. I've been exploring the Hapax and a Gotharman LD3 as sequencers currently.

    None of these issues on their own were enough, but they added up to me giving up on this path.

    For me now, I use an iPad for live performances either as my sole device, or as a "Synth holder" running one/two AUv3s (using an older iPad with a built in headphone jack). With the latter setup, I use an external sequencer and use Drambo's Layers Switcher to instantly switch between AUv3s, with one Drambo project holding all the AUv3s for a whole set. The switcher is great because only the open layer uses up CPU processing.

    I'm definitely curious to hear other people's experiences as well. While I played a few shows with a hybrid-iOS-brain setup it turned out to be more pain than joy. I don't want to discourage other folks from finding a way to do this, this but I also want to be realistic about the struggles I ran into!

  • reezyglereezygle
    edited December 5

    I use iPad to sequence multiple hardware usually with LK in AUM and have never had any problems. I’ve done this even in live shows never having a problem. I do all this with an M1 iPad with 8 gb ram.

    I actually find the iPad sequencers to be more flexible and expressive, fun, and there are so many options. I had a korg SQ-64 and it’s one of the very few of my gear that I’ve ever sold. Just rather use MIDI controllers with iPad sequencer apps. AU or stand-alone.

  • offbrandsoffbrands

    Been watching @Gravitas do this for the last couple weeks live with Drambo. He’s been crushing it. His YouTube channel has several videos of previous live videos that explain the process.

    Bookmark or star this forum page, one of us will post the live links whenever he’s on.

  • tom_wardtom_ward
    edited December 6

    Yes!

    I have two hybrid setup variants that I use depending on what I'm doing:
    1: Hardware + iPad
    Generally in use with a modular synth, as well as a JX-08 and Digitakt in some combination. I regularly use either AUM or Loopy Pro as a host for various MIDI sequencers, tools, plus audio instruments and FX. I multitrack everything on the iPad, as needed, through an ES-9.

    Everything here is pretty stable, but that took a bit of trial and error, learning a bunch of apps inside and out, and practice.

    2: Hardware + desktop + iPad
    When working with a desktop, and some combination of the hardware above, the iPad takes on whatever role is needed for that session. Often it is running a sequencer or an instrument and just functioning in that role. When running sequencers, I will use the iPad as the main clock if the sequencing app is stable enough.

    I like the iPad as a control surface and central actor in this setup. I wouldn't play live like this...basically the desktop stays on my desk and I use it when I'm going to sit down and "be serious".

  • DblUDblU

    As long as your iPad is the main sequencer ne not being driven by your computer it should work good.
    I am trying the same, but ma iOS is looked to my Laptop via a Soundcard running Ableton Live. This setup does not work properly for me because the clock is quite unstable and jittery.

    But as long you are using only your iPad as the main sequencer you will have a huge amount of awesome sequencers like Prism (my favourite), Drambo (Swiss Army Knive) or MiRack (Eurorack world)

  • u0421793u0421793

    Reminder - Gadget exists and has external MIDI out

  • idxidx

    Thanks everyone for chiming in and providing your perspective and personal experience. I have some hands-on practice on the most apps mentioned, but never use them for controlling external gear nor performing with it. I’m going to give a try to following apps: Drambo, LK and Gadget. Also considering trying out Loopy pro.
    Thanks, I encourage everyone to continue the discussion and happy to hear more opinions.

  • BroCoastBroCoast

    @idx said:
    Thanks everyone for chiming in and providing your perspective and personal experience. I have some hands-on practice on the most apps mentioned, but never use them for controlling external gear nor performing with it. I’m going to give a try to following apps: Drambo, LK and Gadget. Also considering trying out Loopy pro.
    Thanks, I encourage everyone to continue the discussion and happy to hear more opinions.

    One thing I would consider is connectivity. I have my iPad doing a lot of sequencing but it’s just connected to my computer via a long usb cable. Feels really nice and never drops out.

    I had so many connection woes when using hubs and interfaces connected to the iPad. Now just doing all the sequencing over IDAM is a breeze.

  • reasOnereasOne
    edited December 7

    I use koala A LOT to sequence within iOS / iPadOS and external gear now..

    But also Fugue machine , harmony bloom, atom 2, eg nodes and so many more are great for external gear lol

    I have a separate iPad just for MIDI out and my new iPad is bringing in all the audio from external gear and running internal synths/sounds/samplers simultaneously. No more desktop/laptop in my set up unless its for file transfer like sending patches to my op1f etc

    I think having an iPad just to run MIDI is a great idea.

  • ralisralis

    I have tired it with Nano Studio 2, I was sequencing all External Synths: Yamaha V2, Roland SE-02, Korg iM1, Deep mind 12D, Roland System 8. The drums were Nano studio 2 Slate. It worked really well and I like sequencing in NS2 but I am deciding between the iPad and a newly acquired Roland 707 for sequencing

  • aaaaaa

    For CV, this app is effective https://apps.apple.com/us/app/sqsl-canvas/id6453470134

  • The Krazy WabbitThe Krazy Wabbit

    @qqq said:
    I spent a lot of time diving deep into this and recently gave up on going this route. My goal was to use an iPad as a brain with hardware for live performance, but it just wasn't worth it.

    A few of the reasons why:

    • iOS for music can be fiddly/unstable: iOS wasn't built for music first, and can be a pain to deal with. Even if the device itself is fine (and something isn't broken by an update) once you throw audio interfaces into the mix things can get extremely flakey. You may have to start devices in a certain order, restart devices, etc.
    • AUv3s also are unstable: AUv3s can crash. This has overall gotten better but its still a problem. Even if they don't crash, there can be a lot of weirdness when you try to automate AUv3 parameters.
    • MIDI latency woes: Using miRack and Drambo I found that a lot of MIDI generation options do not have tight timing. I was often hitting drift of up to 10ms between different sequencers running at the same time. Its worth noting that "non-module" Drambo sequencer was fine, but I wanted to more alternative forms of sequencing.
    • Switching between tracks is slow: Even if a project loads without something crashing, loading projects can be slow and is painful to deal with. This isn't great for live performance. You can work around this by running sound from another application during transfers, or even routing audio back into your iPad via your interface and looping, but all of this is pretty fiddly.
    • Hardware sequencers can be more expressive: This is subjective for sure, but I just find dealing with hardware step sequencers to be better for the type of music I create. I just like turning on/off step buttons. I've been exploring the Hapax and a Gotharman LD3 as sequencers currently.

    None of these issues on their own were enough, but they added up to me giving up on this path.

    For me now, I use an iPad for live performances either as my sole device, or as a "Synth holder" running one/two AUv3s (using an older iPad with a built in headphone jack). With the latter setup, I use an external sequencer and use Drambo's Layers Switcher to instantly switch between AUv3s, with one Drambo project holding all the AUv3s for a whole set. The switcher is great because only the open layer uses up CPU processing.

    I'm definitely curious to hear other people's experiences as well. While I played a few shows with a hybrid-iOS-brain setup it turned out to be more pain than joy. I don't want to discourage other folks from finding a way to do this, this but I also want to be realistic about the struggles I ran into!

    Agree 1000%. I too was set on the same path and it became too frustrating. Can it be done sure? Mileage may vary.

  • wimwim
    edited December 7

    @BroCoast said:

    @idx said:
    Thanks everyone for chiming in and providing your perspective and personal experience. I have some hands-on practice on the most apps mentioned, but never use them for controlling external gear nor performing with it. I’m going to give a try to following apps: Drambo, LK and Gadget. Also considering trying out Loopy pro.
    Thanks, I encourage everyone to continue the discussion and happy to hear more opinions.

    One thing I would consider is connectivity. I have my iPad doing a lot of sequencing but it’s just connected to my computer via a long usb cable. Feels really nice and never drops out.

    I had so many connection woes when using hubs and interfaces connected to the iPad. Now just doing all the sequencing over IDAM is a breeze.

    That's interesting. I actually have to plug my iPad into a powered hub attached to my MacBook Pro 2015 or the iDAM connection constantly drops out. It drove me nuts until I finally read somewhere that it was because the MacBook wasn't supplying enough power. Using a powered hub has overcome disconnect issues for more than one person I've mentioned it to.

    Probably newer Macs supply more power.

  • StrizbizStrizbiz

    It’s definitely doable but you’d have to find the right sequencer that fits you…personally I went the IPad route for a while…but at this point, having one port simply isn’t cutting it for me anymore regardless of usb hubs, I’m using an M3 Max MacBook Pro, and my iPad either as a sound source or a place to start ideas on and finish on my Mac. Don’t get me wrong, there’s a lot of great IPad apps I love….but the connectivity is just too lacking for me.

  • tom_wardtom_ward
    edited December 8

    @wim said:

    @BroCoast said:

    @idx said:
    Thanks everyone for chiming in and providing your perspective and personal experience. I have some hands-on practice on the most apps mentioned, but never use them for controlling external gear nor performing with it. I’m going to give a try to following apps: Drambo, LK and Gadget. Also considering trying out Loopy pro.
    Thanks, I encourage everyone to continue the discussion and happy to hear more opinions.

    One thing I would consider is connectivity. I have my iPad doing a lot of sequencing but it’s just connected to my computer via a long usb cable. Feels really nice and never drops out.

    I had so many connection woes when using hubs and interfaces connected to the iPad. Now just doing all the sequencing over IDAM is a breeze.

    That's interesting. I actually have to plug my iPad into a powered hub attached to my MacBook Pro 2015 or the iDAM connection constantly drops out. It drove me nuts until I finally read somewhere that it was because the MacBook wasn't supplying enough power. Using a powered hub has overcome disconnect issues for more than one person I've mentioned it to.

    Probably newer Macs supply more power.

    That's an interesting issue! I'm on a 2021 MBP, and that isn't something I've encountered with newer iOS devices (all USB-C connections, essentially). However there are times where the iPad Pro will essentially stop charging, and in some cases it has drained a little even while stating it is charging. Haven't had IDAM dropouts, but it's annoying enough that I've also moved to a powered hub for a little extra piece of mind.

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