How to figure out chords to songs

Telstar5

Best video ever

ejacul337

jwmmakerofmusic

@Telstar5 said:
Best video ever

Or it would've been had the video still been up. Seems the uploader removed it. If it's reposted, can you update the link above mate?

Telstar5

@jwmmakerofmusic said:

@Telstar5 said:
Best video ever

Or it would've been had the video still been up. Seems the uploader removed it. If it's reposted, can you update the link above mate?

pedro

Video is gone, but what was the trick? I’m really suspicious because there is no simple trick, and claiming so means it’s probably rubbish or at least oversimplified. But I was trying to keep an open mind

pedro

@ejacul337 said:

This is apematrix, right? What exactly are we seeing here? Seems fun (I own but haven’t used apematrix in ages. Beautiful piece of software though)

senhorlampada

@pedro said:
This is apematrix, right? What exactly are we seeing here? Seems fun (I own but haven’t used apematrix in ages. Beautiful piece of software though)

Actually this is AUM. @ejacul337 built an insane routing matrix inside it

pedro

@senhorlampada said:

@pedro said:
This is apematrix, right? What exactly are we seeing here? Seems fun (I own but haven’t used apematrix in ages. Beautiful piece of software though)

Actually this is AUM. @ejacul337 built an insane routing matrix inside it

I realized after posting, I don’t use aum much, either.
But what does it do, it’s some hosted au that has those symbols? Something like tonality?

bluegroove

@pedro said:
Video is gone, but what was the trick? I’m really suspicious because there is no simple trick, and claiming so means it’s probably rubbish or at least oversimplified. But I was trying to keep an open mind

That link should work.

First determine the key. For most songs, the chords will all be found in the key, so start with the diatonic triads, especially the I-IV-V-VI chords. However, some songs will have a chord outside the key, which are often secondary dominants, and she provides a nice trick for finding those (taking the 5th note of the diatonic chord you are tying to get to). She explains it in more detail, but that's the gist of it and definitely not rubbish if you know a bit of theory and have a decent ear.

uncledave

@pedro said:

@senhorlampada said:

@pedro said:
This is apematrix, right? What exactly are we seeing here? Seems fun (I own but haven’t used apematrix in ages. Beautiful piece of software though)

Actually this is AUM. @ejacul337 built an insane routing matrix inside it

I realized after posting, I don’t use aum much, either.
But what does it do, it’s some hosted au that has those symbols? Something like tonality?

Those are the various MIDI-generating "bud" apps by Cem Olcay. The first one, BrainBud, can control them all, sending key/chord info. Presumably, their outputs are routed to an instrument off-screen.

pedro

@uncledave said:

@pedro said:

@senhorlampada said:

@pedro said:
This is apematrix, right? What exactly are we seeing here? Seems fun (I own but haven’t used apematrix in ages. Beautiful piece of software though)

Actually this is AUM. @ejacul337 built an insane routing matrix inside it

I realized after posting, I don’t use aum much, either.
But what does it do, it’s some hosted au that has those symbols? Something like tonality?

Those are the various MIDI-generating "bud" apps by Cem Olcay. The first one, BrainBud, can control them all, sending key/chord info. Presumably, their outputs are routed to an instrument off-screen.

Oh that’s very cool thanks. I heard you guys talk about those several times but I don’t own any… yet this has sparked my curiosity, I’ll look into them. Thanks for the heads-up

Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr

@bluegroove said:

@pedro said:
Video is gone, but what was the trick? I’m really suspicious because there is no simple trick, and claiming so means it’s probably rubbish or at least oversimplified. But I was trying to keep an open mind

That link should work.

First determine the key. For most songs, the chords will all be found in the key, so start with the diatonic triads, especially the I-IV-V-VI chords. However, some songs will have a chord outside the key, which are often secondary dominants, and she provides a nice trick for finding those (taking the 5th note of the diatonic chord you are tying to get to). She explains it in more detail, but that's the gist of it and definitely not rubbish if you know a bit of theory and have a decent ear.

These are useful algorithms, but I don't think there is any "one simple trick" that would allow a person to evade the hard work involved in learning to do this. The first few songs you learn by ear can be very, very difficult. Then once you learn to hear the common patterns it gets a lot easier, and eventually you can often learn the song in real time while playing along.

But there is real work involved. Things that are as easy as breathing for me today took me a huge amount of time to work out back when I was a kid.

bluegroove

@Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr said:

@bluegroove said:

@pedro said:
Video is gone, but what was the trick? I’m really suspicious because there is no simple trick, and claiming so means it’s probably rubbish or at least oversimplified. But I was trying to keep an open mind

That link should work.

First determine the key. For most songs, the chords will all be found in the key, so start with the diatonic triads, especially the I-IV-V-VI chords. However, some songs will have a chord outside the key, which are often secondary dominants, and she provides a nice trick for finding those (taking the 5th note of the diatonic chord you are tying to get to). She explains it in more detail, but that's the gist of it and definitely not rubbish if you know a bit of theory and have a decent ear.

These are useful algorithms, but I don't think there is any "one simple trick" that would allow a person to evade the hard work involved in learning to do this. The first few songs you learn by ear can be very, very difficult. Then once you learn to hear the common patterns it gets a lot easier, and eventually you can often learn the song in real time while playing along.

But there is real work involved. Things that are as easy as breathing for me today took me a huge amount of time to work out back when I was a kid.

Definitely and I know she would agree as well. This video as with all her stuff is aimed at people that already have a firm grasp on intermediate music theory, and in no way encourages corner cutting.

For this video to even be helpful for a person, they already have to have put in the work as you said, to know all the notes and chords in a key, how the chords within that key are built, and then they can see how those chords can link up with "outside" chords (the "trick").

This secondary dominant trick is just one extra part in the process, but not an "end all be all" solution despite the flashy title (can't blame her for trying to get more clicks, but she really is a genuine person and a great teacher).

At the end of the day, this "trick" is not a corner cutting secret formula, but just another step in the path of practical music theory, which for me at least is a lifelong study. Even though I've played guitar since the late 90's, I really only got serious about music theory in recent years when I started learning keys . A few years ago I would've been completely lost watching this video, but now I understand everything she says, so cheers for progress. The work is paying off!

RajahP

@bluegroove said:

@pedro said:
Video is gone, but what was the trick? I’m really suspicious because there is no simple trick, and claiming so means it’s probably rubbish or at least oversimplified. But I was trying to keep an open mind

That link should work.

First determine the key. For most songs, the chords will all be found in the key, so start with the diatonic triads, especially the I-IV-V-VI chords. However, some songs will have a chord outside the key, which are often secondary dominants, and she provides a nice trick for finding those (taking the 5th note of the diatonic chord you are tying to get to). She explains it in more detail, but that's the gist of it and definitely not rubbish if you know a bit of theory and have a decent ear.

Scaler 2.

JustinOllman

This is what my cousin taught me, he was my only guitar teacher. I now have a really good ear and can can tell you the chords of any reasonable song while listening to it*

His advice applies to anything song-like, nothing too avant garde I guess or full on jazzy for that matter. So starting with the basics.
Listen to the bass line. find the note the bass player is playing. find it on guitar. listen over and over while playing notes on the guitar till you find it. And the chord will be that chord, either major or minor, try both and see which one sounds right. I did this, with records, and recording the songs I liked on cassette so i could rewind and listen, playing notes up and down the fret board on the guitar till i found one which matched.
The next thing i learned after that involved a song I was trying to work out. I could hear 3 notes; E, F, F#. The E major sounded right, the F# minor sounded right, but neither F major or minor sounded right. Then he told me, sometimes the bass player is not playing the root note, but another note of the chord, like the 3rd or the 5th. Turned out the F natural was a C# chord, F# being the third.

I don't know if I had more innate ability with this or not, at first it wasn't easy, but after time I began to hear what certain progressions sound like very easily, and now I have the best ear for doing this of anyone I know, though not up to the astonishing standards of Rick Beato's son!

So that's how I learned, it might be a useful method for others. And it's way more convenient now than it was when records and cassettes were my only listening options. And it develops your ear at the same time.

*I don't have perfect pitch, but have very good relative pitch, which is way more useful. So I might get the key wrong, but the progression will be right.

pedro

@bluegroove said:

@pedro said:
Video is gone, but what was the trick? I’m really suspicious because there is no simple trick, and claiming so means it’s probably rubbish or at least oversimplified. But I was trying to keep an open mind

That link should work.

First determine the key. For most songs, the chords will all be found in the key, so start with the diatonic triads, especially the I-IV-V-VI chords. However, some songs will have a chord outside the key, which are often secondary dominants, and she provides a nice trick for finding those (taking the 5th note of the diatonic chord you are tying to get to). She explains it in more detail, but that's the gist of it and definitely not rubbish if you know a bit of theory and have a decent ear.

Now that I watched, it’s actually a good video. Didn’t expect it to cover secondary dominants. Didn’t learn any new tricks because I knew all this already, but I’m sure it will help some folks

ejacul337

Great video.

This one is not as interesting tho:
Model Train Synthesizer(s)

Telstar5

@bluegroove for the win. You get it .. More than just a “trick” this video really explains how basic song harmony is ci stricter especially secondary dominants and it’s explained better than I’ve ever seen .