Increasing guitar and vocal input signal strength

danm

I'm new to Loopy Pro and I'd like any advice you can offer relating to guitar and vocal recording levels and input/output signal.

I'm pre-recording my clips, very basic stuff for now, just my telecaster and vocals, using either a sennheiser e935 or SM58. Tele is plugged directly into a Focusrite 2i2 4th Gen as is the mic for vocals. 

I've got both the gain knobs on the focusrite inputs set to peak as high as possible without going beyond green much, if at all. 

Within Loopy Pro, I consistently feel the input signals tend not to be as strong as I'd like, so trying to improve things. 

Any thoughts on what your main approach would be within Loopy if you wanted to both:
a) boost the input signals as much as possible while recording without saturation

b) boost the monitoring volume of the signal while you're recording relative to the clips that are already recorded and playing along (ie: if you want to have the vocal you're recording be very present in your headphone mix while you're doing the recording but adjust that down after recording) 

I've mostly been using the long press on the mixer button to adjust specific clip gains to adjust things after the fact, but I feel I'm likely missing some things that I should be trying and perhaps don't entirely understand how output volumes are being routed. 

Thanks for any thoughts and/or pointers 

espiegel123

The first thing to do is check your calibration with an empty default project and look at the levels you are receiving — when Loopy’s faders are at unity gain…and separately checking your output levels when Loopy is sending the maximum signal (0 db on the meter).

The most common issues are misadjustment on the interface or amplification side.

If the input levels are not approaching the target input range, you may need to adjust either input gain on your interface OR the hardware input gain that is adjustable in the input options for that input channel.

See the procedure outlined on this troubleshooting page:

https://wiki.loopypro.com/Troubleshooting_Audio_Problems#Volume_Calibration

abf

I set my levels so I'm recording peaks around -12dBFS because those are the levels my AD converter expects. Most converters are similar, some others are optimized to record at -18dB or - 6dB. So -12dB peaks will always get good clean results. Record your overdubs to that level and as you monitor adjust the already recorded tracks to fit the mix. Then adjust the overall volume to suit.

danm

thanks @espiegel123 and @abf.

I'll start by running through the procedures outlined in the volume calibration wiki.

@espiegel123, in the wiki instructions, can you let me know what project this is referring to, please...I don't see a "default" project in the "Sample Projects" folder:
Create a new project using Loopy Pro's default project.

Thanks

espiegel123

@danm said:
thanks @espiegel123 and @abf.

I'll start by running through the procedures outlined in the volume calibration wiki.

@espiegel123, in the wiki instructions, can you let me know what project this is referring to, please...I don't see a "default" project in the "Sample Projects" folder:
Create a new project using Loopy Pro's default project.

Thanks

loopy’s default project is the one you get when you create a new project if you have no templates. If you have templates, it is the one called Default. If you have one template, you need to long-press new project in the project panel.

danm

Thanks. Also, I'm assuming that the Loopy Pro mixer channel levels are showing the peak with the two little vertical white lines, correct?
I'm only asking bc I was expecting, perhaps incorrectly, for the almost-solid white bars on the right and left side of each meter to reach the same peak where the small vert white reach then have the almost-solid white bars fall (and for the small white vertical lines to remain there for a bit to show the peak and then drop off).

Just double checking, since I never see the almost-solid bars ever hit that same height.

espiegel123

@danm said:
Thanks. Also, I'm assuming that the Loopy Pro mixer channel levels are showing the peak with the two little vertical white lines, correct?
I'm only asking bc I was expecting, perhaps incorrectly, for the almost-solid white bars on the right and left side of each meter to reach the same peak where the small vert white reach then have the almost-solid white bars fall (and for the small white vertical lines to remain there for a bit to show the peak and then drop off).

Just double checking, since I never see the almost-solid bars ever hit that same height.

The solid bars are the instantaneous level, the single pixel line is a sort of peak indicator.

I am not sure what you mean by the bare not reaching the same height? Do you mean the left and right channels?

danm

yes, the left and right channels

danm

making good progress based on your recommendations, above.

Quick Q:
When would you use the clip gain adjustment available by press-and-hold of the mixer button in lower left corner...would you rarely use this and/or use it very sparingly?

Thanks

espiegel123

@danm said:
making good progress based on your recommendations, above.

Quick Q:
When would you use the clip gain adjustment available by press-and-hold of the mixer button in lower left corner...would you rarely use this and/or use it very sparingly?

Thanks

Re the clip mixer: it depends on the situation. It depends on what the music demands.

danm

I see. Is the reason we have the clip mixer solely for when you want to adjust gain on a specific audio clip and not act on everything in the channel (using the mixer fader)

espiegel123

@danm said:
I see. Is the reason we have the clip mixer solely for when you want to adjust gain on a specific audio clip and not act on everything in the channel (using the mixer fader)

Yes

NoiseHorse

Your 4th gen 2i2 has Auto-Gain and Clip Safe I wonder if disabling them would allow a hotter signal???

mrufino1

I don’t know the fousrite’s meters, but the recommendation of letting your average be around -18dbfs and the peaks be around -12dbfs (the occasional peak that’s a little higher is ok) is the best practice. If you’re getting those levels and want it to be louder, then just turn up your speakers or headphones.

If the meters you see are peak meters (sounds like it, I’ve never used loopy pro either), then watch them for a bit to see your average level.

Good gain staging like this will make a very positive difference in your results.

danm

Thanks @NoiseHorse and @mrufino1, really appreciate your comments.

@NoiseHorse and @mrufino1, excellent points, thanks.

One thing I find a bit challenging with the Focusrite design are the gain knobs. They are cool, but the knobs don't have a physical min and max. Not a huge deal, but in a small space, things get bumped and nudged now and then and there's no way to tell (except confirming by playing/singing) if the knob has moved a bit at some point...not a huge deal, but wonder if other people have had this (minor) issue and if they like other usb audio devices versus focusrite (or not).

Also, after the feedback from this thread, I already feel things are much improved for me on this front.

Thanks

espiegel123

@danm : in case this isn’t clear, you should be bringing the guitar and mic into loopy on separate input channels so that you can clearly see and adjust each input’s levels. Your comment about the stereo levels made wonder if you are bringing the inputs into Loopy as a stereo pair.

danm

Thanks @espiegel123, yup I have the guitar and mic on separate input channels, thanks very much!

wim

That reminds me of something, probably totally unrelated, but I'll mention it anyway.

A long time back there was discussion about mono inputs to stereo input channels. For instance, my guitar interface comes in as a stereo pair even though the input is mono. Someone who's technical knowledge I trust (I can't remember who) said that this could possibly lead to degradation due to tiny phase issues. They claimed that its best to select either the right or the left channel if available separately in the DAW input settings. I never proved it out or heard any difference, but I've been in the habit of selecting only the Left or Right input ever since.

danm

Thanks @wim. I believe this is how I've always done it too, but would you mind clarifying how this would look specifically in settings in LP, so I make sure I'm interpreting it correctly for this specific use. I currently have input selection set to the Scarlett and Input Channels set to "1" (or "2") depending on what I'm recording (guitar or mic). And in "Clip Settings" Audio Output Channels set to "1+2".

Or were you not referring to LP, rather use in an external DAW. Thanks

wim

@danm said:
Thanks @wim. I believe this is how I've always done it too, but would you mind clarifying how this would look specifically in settings in LP, so I make sure I'm interpreting it correctly for this specific use. I currently have input selection set to the Scarlett and Input Channels set to "1" (or "2") depending on what I'm recording (guitar or mic). And in "Clip Settings" Audio Output Channels set to "1+2".

Or were you not referring to LP, rather use in an external DAW. Thanks

Yes, my iRig Pro interface presents itself in the same way as: 1, 2, and 1+2. Loopy defaults to selecting 1+2 on the input, so I change it to 1. Output is always 1+2. Other DAWs usually list it as L, R and L+R, but all default to L+R