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Im learning beatbox eq and compression on iOS [input and help welcome, appreciated!]
Been beatboxing for over two decades, but haven’t had any real understanding of backend sound design until recently (6 months maybe?)
And I had always been unsuccessful with these basics.. just couldn’t get it to sound… right
A couple of days ago, folded and picked up Toneboosters EQ Pro and MBC, and things started clicking, and I think I’ve got a good sound going! I THINK
If I could get input as to if this is sounding proper, and any advice, I’d be grateful!
(It’s under a minute)
Yellow is a one shot recorded on a knockoff sm57, Amazon style, of the $20 variety
Orange is what I think I want, just making sure my ears aren’t missing something hella important
Also, if there are recommended reverbs for drums/beatboxing that you know (or anything else), please let me know!
I do have FAC Transient, Bass Mint, and other oddities available…. As I was using TB’s apps, I discovered I now have transient options for filters in EQ Pro and I’m trying to properly boost my own bass. And pare down on plugins/cpu load, off course. But knowledge is always invaluable, so feed my brain!
Many thanks in advance!
[EDIT Headphones Recommended!]
Comments
I think you’re losing the bass a little on the orange. Sounds more in your face, but with less low end.
But there’s a lot you can do with your source material, it needs EQ more defined for starters but it sounds promising
By chance did you listen thru device speakers? Or headphones?
On my phone and iPad, orange loses it... But with headphones, well, different story lol
I will be messing with Knorr (zero experience, but ready to learn) and Bass Leveler, both of which should add upper harmonics to hear more of the bass on device speakers (hopefully not sacrificing where it's at with headphones)
Edit: I only bring it up since after posting here, I was showing the wife on the iPad itself, she said something similar, and I remembered I was editing with headphones... So I handed her those and she let out a guffaw and said 'remind me to never listen out of the shitty speakers when you have something to show me' 😅
Device speakers cause that was what I had available. I can double check with a good pair of phones later, but in any case you want your EQ to sound good even in bad conditions, and losing bass even through speakers is a sign that something is missing, even if it sounds better in ideal conditions. People are not going to be listening in ideal conditions, so don’t just mix for those
Oh absolutely and I completely agree and understand. I just haven't hit that point yet (been struggling with the first baby steps, and want to make sure I'm not over- or under- doing it)
I do appreciate the kind words of advice tho, many thanks!
Edit: and I apologize if it came off defensive. More just adding info that I didn't include in op (added headphone recommend tho). I do truly appreciate all input
You can also look for conventional advice on vocal process chains. There’s been many discussions about that, and the advice must surely translate.
Voice has a much narrower eq range than a synth, so eq’ing it is a much fiddler business
A. Good idea thanks!
B. 'vocal process chains' Dope thanks! I struggle with falling into search loops for not knowing more defined terms with which to start
(It was just 4 years ago that I finally learned terms 'side chaining low pass filter' and 'ducking' that I could learn that specific anomaly of an effect that I couldn't put into words prior. It's amazing in both learning all these new techniques... And still garnering widely used terms for basic operations to which I was just flat blind)
I've listened to it on studio monitors and orange is the one for me.
I haven't listened yet on headphones.
Edit.
What you could do is have the vocal going into a low pass filter
with the resonance on the filter set to ping on the low frequencies
and you can add extra bass on your vocals that way with
an envelope follower going into an amp module to control the amount of added low end.
You would need to blend the clean vocal with effect.
I used to do that when I was producing hip-hop back in the day
or when I have the top end of a kick drum sound
and there's no bottom end to the kick drum sound.
Good advise when playing to others.
The rest of what @pedro mentioned is also relevant.
And @PapaBPoppin if you provide an audio file we can make it a more fun learning experience for all of us 🤷♂️
Wouldn’t mind slicing your beatboxing on drambo and going overboard
Ok, I listened with my trusted headphones. Orange surely sounds better BUT they both sound awful, sorry, it’s not your beatboxing skills, it’s what you’re doing to the sound afterwards. Not that it wouldn’t cut through a mix, but it’s hard to tell out of context. Maybe this is exactly what the mix needs, but hearing it isolated might sound like too much
@PapaBPoppin
What is your signal path?
You mentioned a knock off SM57 what else are you using?
Are you using an external audio interface? if so which one?
Try using a guitar preamp auv3 effect to add some crunch.
You've got Toneboosters Eq Pro and Multiband so that should cover the rest of the sound you need to get for now.
I don't have the Toneboosters Eq Pro however some of the functions on the ToneBoosters Eq are the same.
So you could try using the expander side of the TB Eq pro to give the sound tightness
and trying using a noise gate as I can hear other background sounds in the recordings.
The sm57 is fine, in my experience, I mean it’s good enough for Sting. I think OP just needs to loosen up, that’s all. Some moments it sounds like it clips, that may be too much proximity or maybe need for a screen
That's why I mentioned the preamp.
SM57's and 58's are the best mics for beatboxing including the knock offs.
They add character to the vocals like guitar amps for guitars.
Hence the noise gate suggestion which can be done in post production.
I forgot to mention to @PapaBPoppin
Look up Beardyman whether he's your cup of tea or not
he does have good tips in regards to production sound for beatboxing.
All great advice! Wish I knew this 20 years ago
Thank you both so very much for everything here! I've got a bunch to respond but have now been awake for 27hr and brain can't support that 😅
(Wife and both kids all got hit with differing illnesses that are going around, and I am majority on 3rd shift, so sleep... Well... Yeah, I remember sleep)
Go for sleep this can wait.
Sorry to hear this.
I hope they get well soon.
Ngl theres a lot here I’m unfamiliar with. However, if I’m pulling it apart right… this feels like something i could put together in Drambo, no? (Grabbed it on Black Friday… looking for a reason to dig in 😈)
This is just a very different direction than the “eq the bass, compression, limiter” I’ve heard as a basic starting point (a very distilled, general wording)
My mindset when i wanted to start this… I wanted an rc-505 like nothing else (still do, but i used to, too). Reggie watts is a longtime inspiration of mine, then Mark Rebillet started his thing and i was sold on that looper
I’d figured it was the built-in plugins that went into making everything pop (and watching competitions using 505s, etc)… and I’m hoping to help build on basics knowledge of these always recommended (needed) plugins, for literally everything, that I’m just flat ignorant towards
Once i get basics down, I’ll gladly give fuckaroundability rights up with a bunch of one shots. Collaboration is my endgame hope for everything I’m doing! (My brain’s been throwing around a down-the-line idea of doing a drumdrops-level of vocal samples for an AudioLayer e-kit. Aaahhhh fantasies)
Thank you for this! I’m not sure what I’m hoping to hear (as an end result with mixing and effects), i just know what was originally doing didn’t sound… right. And i felt like it was hitting a usable point, but i very well could have borked the whole thing! I’m going to do a square one jump (that i wasn’t considering when i started)
I have zero mic experience for beatboxing. The handful of times I’ve been recorded (beatbox wise), it’s been a single mic set down to catch a few people as the flow rolls (YouTube: @rondaldjames, track name: BPBD, for reference)
Hearing that the raw track is garbage, i gotta start there (obvious with hindsight, not considered til now)
Zoom U-22 - Very well need to drop the input gain. As i said earlier in this post, this goes back to my absolute inexperience of beatboxing with a mic. A lot of learning is going down lol
I’ve also got a Zoom H1essential 2024 with the 32bit float, negating need to worry about input gain. Would a simple XLR to 1/8” cable work to plug my sm57 into the input of the H1e?
I’ve only lightly dabbled in anything guitar related on iOS at this point. Any recommended starting points more specifically that popped into your head for this?
Thank for for the confirmation about eq and multiband. I’d been looking at a few for sales (4pockets & fabfilter being the other two combos) for a little now, finally pulled the trigger after seeing TB doesn’t really ever run sales, and seeing a few times that they are very solid offerings for iOS
I’ve got Brusfri as loaded by default on every template i open or create. 2nd app i bought immediately after Loopy Pro when i got the iPad. It wasn’t used here for live delay for testing, and i wasn’t bothered to go full clean for First Run with the TB plugins … was just running as cpu lite as possible that morning
That said, I’ll be looking into noise gates for certain! Another term i can now associate to a thing I’ve known about… but could never put into proper words! Thank you for growing my brain info!!
This also falls into my lack of mic work (not that i said it before any of my response here, just notating same explanation). I could easily be starting from a poor setup point, but only realizing it now
Caught a bunch of random works of his back at the start of my journey, and his work with Harry Mack is inspirational xD Will check out more and specifically for any tips he has on sound production on vocals! Thanks for the directional point!
I mean, ive been looking for someone specifically doing iOS beatbox vocal tutorials, but all I’ve come up with is things I’ve been trying to translate as best i can to iOS (…and until Feb 2023, never owned an iOS device, so it was learning EVERTHING new) - - Which so far, TB has the closest to desktop tutorials I’ve watched xD
However, once i have a working base, i do plan on filling that void of tutorials that I’ve been desperately searching for
—-
Thank you so much for everything here! Ive wanted to do this for well over a decade, but don’t have anyone in close proximity to bounce ideas and questions off of. And now I’ve got to the point of enough general knowledge to know more of what to ask (or, understand what I’m told is needed)
I really appreciate your time! ❤️
[edit: had to break out the RK61 for this one! 😂]
You could do this entirely in dRambo.
Very straight forward.
As soon as I got a chance I'll post up a screenshot or something.
Basically it's adding an extra low tone to the beatboxing without clashing with the mid range vocal frequencies.
If you wanted to get really complex with this you could (now that you have dRambo)
isolate frequencies and use your vocals to trigger other sounds.
Anyways let's focus on the basics which is getting you a good solid beatboxing tone when recording.
Ahhh yes, don't be afraid to have the mic really close to your mouth as that creates
what is a called a bass proximity effect which is very useful for the low end of beatboxing vocals.
Loopy Pro is the answer.
Bass proximity effect see above.
Look at the mic technique of the beatboxers and you will see that firstly
the mix is really close if not on the mouth and what you're hearing
when they are performing live is also the sound of the P.A which has been engineered etc.
Then they add performance effects.
I have the Zoom U-44 which you've heard via my livestream similar preamps etc.
When setting your levels on the Zoom U-22 make the loudest sound
you're going to make and see if it hits red.
If it hits red then ease back the gain until it's only showing green.
That would work however there's not going to be that much of a difference between these devices.
The same principle applies in setting the gain.
The reason why I suggested using a guitar preamp (Nembrini JRS1000 is a good one)
is because it adds saturation and distortion.
I'm not suggesting in anyway maxing out on the distortion etc however
what these effects do is add compression to the vocal sound and limits the frequencies
in a pleasing way when fine tuned.
You need to be subtle.
Good that you have more eq's to your tool kit however it's the expander side of the Toneboosters Eq Pro which is useful.
As you have Brusfri again you needn't be concerned about noise gates except if you want to conserve CPU.
No probs.
At one point Beardyman was using iPads for his live performances.
I dont know if he still is using them.
You're the first to my knowledge to be asking about beatboxing recording techniques.
I've mentioned that I used to record beatboxers and for awhile I used to do some beatboxing
hence why I know some of the techniques of the top of my head.
Right now you're in a really good position because you can do a lot of experimenting to find your sound.
Use all of the suggestions and eventually you will achieve what you're aiming for.
Good idea.
No worries.
Oh no.....Not the RK61....😂
.....
I wouldn't get caught up in whether tutorials are geared towards iOS. The same basic principles apply regardless of whether one is working with a mic and rack gear into a PA or on a Mac or PC or iPad.
Excellent thank you (for both the confirm, and the offer)!
I was also wondering if a noise gate can theoretically be thrown into that chain via dRambo (id love to build custom patches that could be released at a later time to possibly save others time. Same reason I want to do the tutorials, once I have a method -- maybe make a plugin if stars align. That's a far off idea, off course)
Ooo tucking that away for potential once I get the rest sorted! (Proper mic technique, best unfilter one shot recording quality, proper plugin setup... All in that order)
Upside, Ive got a good grasp on concepts for mic placement and cupping as needed (obsessive studying before I get products in hand to actually execute. I also do a lot of throat bass and and vocal parts, so I knows the nose), so it's all gonna be about precise practice for personal placement (accentuated by accidental alliteration) - and basically relearning my voice through headphones
I was following loopy pro for about 1.5yr before having a capable device. Outside of the 505, it took over my obsessive brain. I almost cried when I could make an iPad work thru Verizon. Immediately after setup, loopy and Brusfri were purchased and installed
I am still constantly shocked with what I have available to me.... And I can carry literally everything with me wherever I go. And it's mobility -- got ideas for portable freestyle records once I can get my hands on a Zoom L6 (or tx6... Probably an L6. But that tx6 is super smexy for my portability lifestyle)
Well that all makes a lot of sense
Superb thank you! Serendipitously close on the hardware front!
So, I don't understand how or why, but 32-bit float record negates setting an input gain. Like, there's no controls for it on the device at all. Only pot control is output volume for onboard speaker or lineout
But it's a dual stereo omnidir. Would work fine for how I've recorded in the past (and can't wait to get a couple guys to sit around it for a trial of a cypher with stereo live rec), but not for that sm57 flavoring
But if it could be as simple as an xlr-to-1/8", thats a price justification I can test out. I'm just not familiar enough with mics to understand differing power needs etc, and don't want to drop $10 on another cable to add to the pile
You wouldn't mean PSA1000, would you? I'm not seeing anything JRS related popping up, but PSA is everywhere
If it is - would you recommend the main one or Jr? (This is all new territory for me)
And are there any cheaper or free recommendations? For both testing, and for general knowledge
OH! Makes total sense! LOVE learning these unexpected tricks!! And now thinking how that can be used in all kinds of other ways! (similarly, layering sounds has finally fully clicked. I haven't utilized, but... Just similar to the mixing and matching of adding a guitar preamp to percussion, I can't wait to start doing these things when my basics cramming finally slows lol)
That's brand new for me. Will start some vids now, but if youve got a concise explanation for that (not an expectation, but you've been stellar with it thus far!! many MANY thanks), I'm game 😁
While I mentioned it earlier, if I can add this into the dRambo setup, that would be superb
So I'll start my looking at noise gates
I've been messing with FAC Enveloper over the past few months (first experience with envelopes), so I can use this lowpass/noisegate as an intro to dRambo project! I'm really curious if I can drop the huge cpu load Brusfri adds when active. Pops from 5% to 35-40%. Not expecting anything specific... But just to personally understand things better
I found him doing a 5min rundown of Beardytron. While it incorporates 5 or 6 iPads, they are all controlling Ableton, save for what looks like Loopy being used for looping purposes, but that's all thru Ableton as well. A bunch of surface builder and touch osc. And I LOVE that stuff (had 3 android tabs with touch osc for when I was streaming. Loopy Template building has fed that addiction quite nicely), but doesn't help towards a purely iOS build. Aspirational for what I can do when my desktops back and running tho!
Kind of wild, to me! Well, let me see about getting myself sorted on the topic, but between tutorials and an early concept dRambo patch, hopefully I can fill that gap and answer questions for people that don't know what to ask!
I can't begin to tell you how excited I was at reading it thru this thread. You've already got me moving in so many right directions that I'd had no idea about before
The blessing I've received thru all this is most definitely not lost on me
Since posting op, thru both @pedro and your advice, the doors have been blown wide open for sound design in general... I mean my understand of it. I've been learning about all aspects mentioned (watched a bit on vocal chain setups and eqing for percussion... Two new concepts for me), everything is all making complete sense!!
I'm quickly discovering!
I was initially hoping for iOS specific since I was struggling with making My EQ do what EQ On Video was showing me. More of a direct 1-to-1 teaching
And I'm not sure where my disconnect was with the concepts, but weirdly, when I loaded up TB EQpro, a lot of things clicked. I know it was total overkill for this specifically, but I'm hoping it'll cover more down the line (and with the expander that grav mentioned earlier, it already is!)
dRambo patch for vocals?
When you next pass through one of my live streams
ask me what I've got in the signal path for vocals as
I'm using dRambo to host everything.
Yup.
Yeah, relearning how to hear your voice on headphone is definitely a must.
I just went through the same thing myself with the live streaming.
Loopy Pro is certainly the answer for looping.
It's wicked.
iPads certainly do provide flexibility with quality I must add.
I've yet to record using 32bit float so I wouldn't know.
Theoritically it makes sense however I would like to experiment with it.
Something to look into later on.
For future reference, you could have the vocals D.I'd into a DAW for recording and post production
with the signals simultaneously being sent to a mixer in the room/space to go on monitors
and the Zoom H1Essential for the room sound.
At this point you have types of microphones.
Large diaphragm condenser microphones and dynamic microphones.
Large diaphragm microphones require power and dynamic microphones don't.
Both microphones use XLR to XLR's however dynamic microphones
can also use XLR to 6.5mm mono jack or stereo jack.
SM57/58 and similar are dynamic microphones and don't require power.
Damn, I did it again.
Sorry I was typing of the top of my head and even when I search on my iPad for it
which is regularly I always put in PSA100 for some reason.
Yeah, that's one I recommended the JSR1000 or the JSR1000 jr.
I use this as a tone control for my guitars after Brusfri.
I suggest getting the stereo version as it will effect both mono and stereo signals
whereas the JR version will only effect mono signals.
I think there are a couple of free versions floating around
and thinking about you could try Primo which is a guitar amp.
Set that to the clean channel and add a subtle amount of gain to the input signal.
Musical saturation and distortion is always fun.
There's a lot here for this thread.
We'll go into this later.
dRambo has an Envelope Follower module which is low on CPU.
Looking forward to hearing what you come up with.
🙏🏾
Agreed.
Word thanks for all the input! I've got a bit to work with and look into!
Gonna work on the lowpass idea, and using the guitar amp... after I can get a consistent decent raw record. Already sounding cleaner with the gain advice, but I'll need to rework EQing in more of a proper fashion, and force myself to hear nuances I'd want to adjust
However
This is me looking at appraven checking on PSA1000, and seeing the 50% off sale ended 3 days ago 🤦
I'll just update this thread as I hit new points that I need more ears
Lots of good notes sprinkled through for search algos to grab a hold
I'll put together something soonish on the live stream for you.
Damn...
They go on sale quite often so you're good.
ahh yes screenshot.
While I was going to use this as a moment to say "This is the only time I wish for reactions or 'votes' on comments. Just for a Thumbs Up to something helpful, and I don't want to make a new comment just to say +1 all the time... Tho I will lol"
[Edit: and MAJOR thanks for that! While I still hope to join stream, my schedule is so off the walls I never honestly know when I'll be sleeping or not. So this will give me a boost in free moments!
I guess this means I'll HAVE to watch thru the vods of any new streams in case I miss it 🤷😂😂]
I realized as I was typing that - looking at the screen shot, I'll be able to start working on it and getting into dRambo in a way I couldn't have prior
I've made a few very simple synths and experimented with a few things
But then it dawned on me. 2 years ago, I thought I had a good idea of how to make music, and I've been working with daws for 20 years in different capacities (new computer? Download the free kazaa, use that to download the paid kazaa, use that to download fruityloops. For era reference lol)
But now, while I have been good with making music, I've known dick about sound design!
I'm also at work dreaming about next break to work on EQing more
The obsession is real
And holy bawls I've learned a lot in two years 😳
@PapaBPoppin
My live stream is very informal.
It's more like a hang out joint with occasionally Q&A's
so remind me at some point ahead of time
and I'll do a stream focused on this other than that you've
got more than enough to play around with for now.
Have fun.
Just to add a comment from Bruce Swedien, one of the greatest engineers (and producers) in recording history (Thriller, Off The Wall, a lot of Quincy Jones' albums, Count Basie/bIg bands, orchestras, etc.) "Compressors are for kids". He hardly ever uses them, and prefers to ride/adjust levels and change mic placement etc. instead. His point is if you don't know why you're adding a compressor, then don't. Same goes for any kind of dynamic effect for a much cleaner sound.