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Bug? Problem when queuing up loops to record in succession (by tapping multiple empty loops)

blowhole2blowhole2
in Loopy Pro

I've been using Loopy HD for live looping gigs for almost a decade now. I'm trying to make the transition to Loopy Pro. The steps below are a simplified scenario to show the problem I'm seeing when I try to record two multi-bar loops in quick succession by queuing the two records by pressing two empty loops in quick succession.

The example below uses only two bars but the 'on stage' problem occurs when I'm wanting to lay down two 16 bar tracks, one after other, back to back. To do this, once I've set up my percussion (which is a bunch of one-bar loops) I then just set the master clock to 16 bars and then press two empty loops in quick succession. I need the two tracks separate so I don't want to use overdub.

This all works great in Loopy HD but I'm having problems in Loopy Pro.

Here are the steps to reproduce the problem in Loopy Pro with a 2-bar example....

SETUP
Clip Settings are set to default (everything nice and synched up). There is only one tweak from the defaults which is:
Record count-in set to 1-bar. (I don't want it set to 'master' otherwise I sometimes have to wait too long before laying down longer loops - remember, it's live.)

Individual clip settings:
Default - All empty loops have their individual length set to: 'unset'

Set the master clock to 4/4, 1-bar.

SCENARIO THAT WORKS:
Start the clock. Wait a little bit (a bar or so).
Press two (empty) loops in relatively quick succession.
The behaviour is as expected; ie. The two recordings are queued. First loop starts recording on the very next bar and records for one bar then plays. As soon as the first loop has finished recording, the second loop begins recording, records 1 bar, then plays.

SCENARIO THAT DOESN'T WORK:
Now change the master clock setting to 2 bars.
Start the clock. Wait a little bit (a bar or so)
During the first bar, press two (empty) loops in relatively quick succession. (Use the the circling clock icon at the very top which takes two bars (8 beats) to make one revolution - The first half revolution representing the first bar and the second half revolution representing the second bar.)
The first loop records two bars.
The second loop records THREE bars. (I believe that it should only record two bars)

If instead you press the two (empty) loops during the second bar, everything works fine.

You may ask; "Why not wait until just before the first bar to initiate the two loop records?". Remember - in reality, I'd normally have the master set to 16 bars and I can't wait until the master clock has gone all the way around. The two bar scenario is just to reproduce the problem)

I've tried any number of settings and it seems to be related to the phase preservation when two multi-bar loops are recorded back to back. If instead you set the "Phase Preservation" to OFF, both the loops are recorded correctly as two bars.

But, I need to leave phase preservation turned on for the same reason that I need the record count-in to be 1-bar. Ie, I can't wait around on stage until the master clock has reached exactly the right point. Also, (i) There is no midi action available to turn it off. And, (ii) it seems that it is a global setting that can't be changed at a colour group level or loop level. Hence, I can't manipulate it while laying down a song or create a 'special' loop widget with it turned off while all the others are left on.

Interestingly, with Phase Preservation turned ON, even if you force both loops to be 2 bars (in the loop details settings), the second one will still record for three bars before it plays. Although, during playback, the third bar is magically deleted from the recording. The problem then becomes that there is a one bar gap between when the second bar finishes recording and when it starts playing because it is still recording the third bar.

The problem is the same with the master clock set to 4 bars, 8, 16 etc. Ie, the second loop records an additional bar.

Loopy HD doesn't exhibit this problem. It seems that it's master clock works differently when it comes to multi-bar settings.

I'd be happy to do a video and show this live if someone can explain how I post a video to the forum ;)

Comments

  • espiegel123espiegel123
    edited February 2

    — posted too soon— investigating now

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    Btw, to post video, upload to YouTube (as noisted if desired) then post a link here.

  • espiegel123espiegel123
    edited February 2

    @blowhole2 : there is a bug here related to the combination of the phase preservation option, recording, and phase-locking.

    let me see if I can work out a workaround.

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @blowhole2 as i work out a workaround for you, I have a few questions:

    • Do you need to initially record an arbitrary number of loops one after the other or just two?
    • do the loops need to be phase-locked?

    If I understand your scenario correctly, you first loop is going to start recording out of phase. Do you want the first loop's beginning phase-aligned or to start at the beginning? (If it isn't clear, let's say the master cycle is 16 and count-in is 1 bar. If you tap during bar 2 to trigger recording, the start of loop 1 will be at bar 3 if phase is preserved)

    p.s. I've reported the issue to Michael

  • blowhole2blowhole2

    @espiegel123 said:
    @blowhole2 as i work out a workaround for you, I have a few questions:

    Thanks for the quick reply and the offer to find a workaround. Here are the answers to your questions...

    • Do you need to initially record an arbitrary number of loops one after the other or just two?

    Yes, arbitrary number of loops.

    • do the loops need to be phase-locked?

    Yes, phase-locked.

    If I understand your scenario correctly, you first loop is going to start recording out of phase. Do you want the first loop's beginning phase-aligned or to start at the beginning? (If it isn't clear, let's say the master cycle is 16 and count-in is 1 bar. If you tap during bar 2 to trigger recording, the start of loop 1 will be at bar 3 if phase is preserved)

    Phase-aligned. Yes, per your example, clicking during bar 2 will cause both new loops to be phase aligned with bar 3.
    To clarify further: Later during the song build-up, with the master still set to 16 bars, if I were to click another empty loop, say during bar 12, then after it's recorded it should align itself to the start of bar 13.

    p.s. I've reported the issue to Michael

    Great, thanks. Should I have posted somewhere else to report the bug?

    Thanks for the advice on how to post a video. I'll try and create one soon.

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @blowhole2 : no need to post a video. I understand the issue.

    Fwiw, this issue is triggered by the first loop starting out of phase with the clock and auto count-out being on. What happens is the count out starts after a delay rather than as soon as the recording starts. The delay is the number of bars by which the start point is out of phase. I think it only happens when multiple clips get queued up.

    You can avoid this bug by having the touch that starts the initial recording start the clock.

    If the clock needs to already be running, the workaround will require an adjustment in how you go about things.

    I’ll post details about a couple of options after I try them out… I don’t think it will be possible to queue an arbitrary number of clips in rapid succession without a complicated workaround. The workaround for the initial clips will probably require either queuing the first then queuing each successor one at a time OR setting up a series in advance that could be canceled.

    Are you queuing by touch?

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @blowhole2 : i found a solution.

    Background: what triggers the problem is that after the first loop is recorded, Loopy realigns the clock to that the first loop's beginning defines the clocks start...even if it started out of phase. If other loops were queued to record before that clock phase adjustment happens it throws things off. It only happens in that case.

    The solution is to set up a gesture for the first clip that will phase align the clock then start recording. I set it up as swipe-right as shown

    So, swipe right on the first clip then tap to queue the other clips and it should all work fine.

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @espiegel123 said:
    @blowhole2 : i found a solution.

    Background: what triggers the problem is that after the first loop is recorded, Loopy realigns the clock to that the first loop's beginning defines the clocks start...even if it started out of phase. If other loops were queued to record before that clock phase adjustment happens it throws things off. It only happens in that case.

    The solution is to set up a gesture for the first clip that will phase align the clock then start recording. I set it up as swipe-right as shown

    So, swipe right on the first clip then tap to queue the other clips and it should all work fine.

    I just realized that you probably want to set the phase align action to be quantized to the bar. Tap left on the dot next to it to set that up.

    There is a catch. If you quantize the phase align action, you need to wait till the first clip has start recording to queue up the subsequent clips.

  • blowhole2blowhole2

    Hi @espiegel123, Thanks for those great options. I look forward to the bug being fixed may be in 2.x :)

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