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Is the EU Good or Bad for Developers?

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Comments

  • SevenSystemsSevenSystems
    edited February 21

    @wim said:

    The report was produced to reinforce a decision to ban caffeine from being used to kill snails and slugs around cabbage and potato patches.

    OK, now that is some next level government meddling. 😂

    They've already done this to fries. Essentially, when you now get fries at a restaurant or any random chipper, they're served basically raw because the EU has mandated that fried food causes cancer.

  • wimwim

    @SevenSystems said:

    @wim said:

    The report was produced to reinforce a decision to ban caffeine from being used to kill snails and slugs around cabbage and potato patches.

    OK, now that is some next level government meddling. 😂

    They've already done this to fries. Essentially, when you now get fries at a restaurant or any random chipper, they're served basically raw because the EU has mandated that fried food causes cancer.

    I'm feeling a tiny bit better about living in the People's Republic of California now.

  • knewspeakknewspeak

    @SevenSystems said:

    @wim said:

    The report was produced to reinforce a decision to ban caffeine from being used to kill snails and slugs around cabbage and potato patches.

    OK, now that is some next level government meddling. 😂

    They've already done this to fries. Essentially, when you now get fries at a restaurant or any random chipper, they're served basically raw because the EU has mandated that fried food causes cancer.

    Fried food can cause cancer, but what they don’t say is everything we do has a risk to benefit ratio, like crossing a road, driving a car, drinking coffee. They feed you the FEAR. It’s psychological propaganda 101.

  • SevenSystemsSevenSystems
    edited February 22

    @wim said:

    @SevenSystems said:

    @wim said:

    The report was produced to reinforce a decision to ban caffeine from being used to kill snails and slugs around cabbage and potato patches.

    OK, now that is some next level government meddling. 😂

    They've already done this to fries. Essentially, when you now get fries at a restaurant or any random chipper, they're served basically raw because the EU has mandated that fried food causes cancer.

    I'm feeling a tiny bit better about living in the People's Republic of California now.

    😄 hadn't heard that one before. But yes, I'm sure you're proud of the fact that USB cables cause cancer in California (and California only) 😂

    @knewspeak said:

    @SevenSystems said:

    @wim said:

    The report was produced to reinforce a decision to ban caffeine from being used to kill snails and slugs around cabbage and potato patches.

    OK, now that is some next level government meddling. 😂

    They've already done this to fries. Essentially, when you now get fries at a restaurant or any random chipper, they're served basically raw because the EU has mandated that fried food causes cancer.

    Fried food can cause cancer, but what they don’t say is everything we do has a risk to benefit ratio, like crossing a road, driving a car, drinking coffee. They feed you the FEAR. It’s psychological propaganda 101.

    YES, THIS +1000, you nailed it. ANYTHING can cause cancer and ANYTHING can kill you. Heck, LIFE can and WILL kill you at some point. But the question is, as you rightly pointed out: Will I live in FEAR until I die, or have FUN while "slowly dying"? 😃 That balance indeed has been shifted dramatically to the "fear" side in recent decades, and the trend is still accelerating.

    I find this so frustrating that I did what I always do when I find something frustrating that I can't change -- let an AI make a song about it for me 😃 ("lyrics" are my own, 5 minutes while sitting on the shitter. It shows!)

    https://suno.com/song/e632a7c6-6b1c-4620-b37c-f20cd5f97696

  • purpan2purpan2
    edited February 22

    .

  • CrabmanCrabman

    So, do we know how many (and which) apps it already affects?

  • wimwim
    edited February 23

    @SevenSystems said:
    YES, THIS +1000, you nailed it. ANYTHING can cause cancer and ANYTHING can kill you. Heck, LIFE can and WILL kill you at some point. But the question is, as you rightly pointed out: Will I live in FEAR until I die, or have FUN while "slowly dying"? 😃 That balance indeed has been shifted dramatically to the "fear" side in recent decades, and the trend is still accelerating.

    Warnings like this are on virtually everything, everywhere, in California. If you live here, it literally does not even register on your consciousness any more because it’s so ubiquitous, making it not only useless, but ridiculous.

    But you know the real mind-boggling part? That was the result of a voter proposition, meaning it wasn’t regulators or lawmakers that came up with it! Voters signed enough petitions to get it on a ballot, and then a majority actually voted for it! 😂

  • SevenSystemsSevenSystems

    @wim said:

    @SevenSystems said:
    YES, THIS +1000, you nailed it. ANYTHING can cause cancer and ANYTHING can kill you. Heck, LIFE can and WILL kill you at some point. But the question is, as you rightly pointed out: Will I live in FEAR until I die, or have FUN while "slowly dying"? 😃 That balance indeed has been shifted dramatically to the "fear" side in recent decades, and the trend is still accelerating.

    Warnings like this are on virtually everything, everywhere, in California. If you live here, it literally does not even register on your consciousness any more because it’s so ubiquitous, making it not only useless, but ridiculous.

    But you know the real mind-boggling part? That was the result of a voter proposition, meaning it wasn’t regulators or lawmakers that came up with it! Voters signed enough petitions to get it on a ballot, and then a majority actually voted for it! 😂

    Yes, crazy. I'm on the phone screen right now so a bit lazy... but apart from this giving worrying insights on the psychological state of Californians, it also creates an objectively pathological and dangerous societal state where warnings are automatically ignored as you pointed out -- and it is dangerous because IF there is something that is GENUINELY DANGEROUS, no amount of warnings will actually be able to convince people that it is!

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    Those are warnings. They don’t prevent the products from being sold. They allow one to make informed decisions.

    You might not care and that’s your right. But some people do care..and when possible might prefer to purchase products that don’t increase the toxicity of the environment.

    In my opinion, people should be aware of the impact of the things they are putting into the environment. So that they can make informed decisions.

    We’ve done a lot of poisoning of our world often through ignorance.

  • wimwim
    edited February 23

    @espiegel123 said:
    Those are warnings. They don’t prevent the products from being sold. They allow one to make informed decisions.

    You might not care and that’s your right. But some people do care..and when possible might prefer to purchase products that don’t increase the toxicity of the environment.

    In my opinion, people should be aware of the impact of the things they are putting into the environment. So that they can make informed decisions.

    We’ve done a lot of poisoning of our world often through ignorance.

    I never said it prevents anything. My point is it is so ubiquitous that I don't think anyone even sees them anymore.

    I mean, there's a warning on the entrance to every. single. restaurant or bar, grocery and retail store, hair salon, every gas pump, parking garage, hospital and medical facility, entertainment venue, manufacturing site, construction site ...

    Warnings are posted no mater how minimal the exposure risk to avoid liability. Warning about everything is essentially the same as warning about nothing.

    I think it's stupid to the point of being ridiculous. You don't. That's fine.

  • knewspeakknewspeak

    @espiegel123 said:
    Those are warnings. They don’t prevent the products from being sold. They allow one to make informed decisions.

    You might not care and that’s your right. But some people do care..and when possible might prefer to purchase products that don’t increase the toxicity of the environment.

    In my opinion, people should be aware of the impact of the things they are putting into the environment. So that they can make informed decisions.

    We’ve done a lot of poisoning of our world often through ignorance.

    I’m all for making informed decisions, even informed consent decisions, that was severely curtailed and manipulated a while ago and still is. You know to what I directly refer.

    But in this case there’s only implied harmful consequences with regard to the warning notification @wim posted above, it only states it ‘may’ contain an harmful agent, quite ambiguous, going further it doesn’t state what agent it may or may not contain, thus could be applied to almost anything.

    Rendering a clear decision impossible, without further investigation or knowledge.

    Maybe lawful bodies would be better created that conduct testing and research that are clearly separate from the industry’s they could have need to regulate.

  • wimwim

    @knewspeak said:
    Maybe lawful bodies would be better created that conduct testing and research that are clearly separate from the industry’s they could have need to regulate.

    Yup. More government. That'll fix it.

  • knewspeakknewspeak

    @wim said:

    @knewspeak said:
    Maybe lawful bodies would be better created that conduct testing and research that are clearly separate from the industry’s they could have need to regulate.

    Yup. More government. That'll fix it.

    No you replace or reform the corrupt one that exists at the moment, with one that has no undue influence from those it regulates. A clear separation of those who regulate from those it regulates, with high transparency.

  • CrabmanCrabman

    Few numbers in this german article. 135k apps vanished from the EU appstore.

    https://m.focus.de/digital/ploetzlich-verschwunden-tausende-apps-geloescht-was-hinter-apples-fruehjahrsputz-steckt_id_260750074.html

  • wimwim
    edited February 26

    Here's the English translation of that article according to Safari:

    Thousands of apps deleted: What's behind Apple's spring cleaning

    Monday, 24.02.2025 | 20:35

    A few days ago, Apple removed more than 100,000 apps from the European App Store. What's behind the action and what developers can do.

    Apple has rigorously cleaned up in the course of new EU requirements: Around 135,000 apps have been [removed] since the 17th. February from the European App Store. The background is the Digital Services Act (DSA) of the European Union, which imposes stricter requirements on app providers. Which providers are particularly affected and what they can do to be included again in the App Store.

    The DSA requires app providers who make money from their applications to disclose specific contact information. Until now, a simple e-mail address was often sufficient, but in the future a telephone number and, for individuals, a postal address will also be required. This should increase transparency and security for users.

    Already in mid-January 2025, Apple had warned app developers: If you do not update your "trader" status in the sense of the DSA, you risk being removed from the store. With the cut-off date 17. In February, Apple has now made this threat come true. According to the app analysis company Appfigures, almost 135,000 apps are affected, as the industry portal "Techcrunch" reports.

    What affected developers can do

    Especially small and independent developers have so far apparently shunned the bureaucratic effort. Many refrain from giving their contact details in full - be it for data protection concerns or because of the additional administrative effort. Apple emphasizes that the regulation applies regardless of whether developers are subject to VAT or how they generate sales. Exceptions are only for hobby developers who do not pursue commercial intentions.

    To bring their apps back to the store, developers must update their status and submit the required contact information via App Store Connect. In addition, confirmation is required that the products or services offered comply with EU requirements. Apple then checks the data and unlocks the application again. The company does not give any information on how long this will take.

  • SimonSimon

    "Apple emphasizes that the regulation applies regardless of whether developers are subject to VAT or how they generate sales. Exceptions are only for hobby developers who do not pursue commercial intentions."

    So, if I am a baddie hacker out to do damage, all I have to do is release a free, non-commercial app and I can do damage and remain anonymous?

    Meanwhile we punish honest, commercial developers.

    Or am I missing something?.

  • wimwim
    edited February 26

    That sounds about right @Simon.

    The DSA requires app providers who make money from their applications to disclose specific contact information. Until now, a simple e-mail address was often sufficient, but in the future a telephone number and, for individuals, a postal address will also be required. This should increase transparency and security for users.

    Transparency and security? You need a home address and phone number for an indie developer for that, when Apple already is enforcing transparency and security, and even processing refunds without consulting the developer? The developer who has no information about who purchased their products and no mechanism to provide refunds directly? (Well, they could send a check to anyone who contacts them directly, but would have no way of verifying if they actually purchased the app, and no way to tell if Apple also refunded them.)

    Why? So people can harass them directly at their home phone number, come with pitchforks or something, throw eggs at your door, stalk you to the grocery store?

    Consumers already have some of the best transparency, security, and redress available through Apple, who, in fact, they purchased from.

    Sorry, I don't get it. The DSA shoe just doesn't fit in this scenario.

    But, I think I blame Apple. As the direct seller, they should be taking the hit on this one, and instead of throwing a hissy fit and pushing this down onto the developers, they should be going to bat for them. They're getting their commission. They're getting their developer fees. They're not even paying the taxes - they push those onto the developer too.

    The regulation is flawed for this scenario, but Apple is copping out and making it worse.

  • wimwim
    edited February 26

    If this is about exposing money laundering, etc, investigators can simply demand the developer's business from Apple.

    No matter how I look at the handling of this, it stinks.

  • knewspeakknewspeak

    @wim said:
    If this is about exposing money laundering, etc, investigators can simply demand the developer's business from Apple.

    No matter how I look at the handling of this, it stinks.

    I agree but that’s how they’ve always operated through offering ‘protection’, the Patriot Act in the USA used to spy without restrictions, when law already existed to cover the investigation of criminals.

    Most of these additional regulations are just a further power grab, while they already misuse the powers in place.

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