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Synth apps that can send MIDI CCs to hardware
Can anyone suggest any iPad synth apps that can be set to send MIDI CCs outgoing when any knobs that are mapped to CCs are tweaked? This is for interfacing to devices like the Behringer BCR-2000, which can sync the knob positions with the app.
The only two apps I have found that can do this are Animoog (both Z and the original Animoog) and Moog Model 15. Also, for the latter this feature only seems available in the standalone version, whereas Animoog allows it in the AUv3.
Comments
The Roto-Control from Melbourne instruments would benefit from exactly the same sort of MIDI feedback as you'd like to see more of for use with your BCR-2000 setup.
I've been talking about that a bit later on in the following thread about the Roto-Control. I am mentioning this to you because the most recent post in that thread is from someone that says Loopy Pro can provide this functionality for the AUv3's you host in it. I havent tried that directly for myself yet, since my own Loopy Pro experiment that I mentioned earlier in that thread looks like it went down the wrong path that didnt enjoy the same results, and I need to find the time to try again.
https://forum.loopypro.com/discussion/63919/roto-control
Direct link to the post I mentioned: https://forum.loopypro.com/discussion/comment/1386496/#Comment_1386496
Like you, I had success with Animoog, but I then changed my focus to the host app because in theory the right host, with decent MIDI feedback, can make any AUv3 that exposes its parameters to hosts work in this way!
Thanks, I will have a look at that. If it is simply a matter of buying a different host that can support this, then that's probably okay. I am using AUM at the moment but I am hardly a power user. I will check out some LP videos on YouTube, as it's quite expensive and on first glance it's not immediately obvious what it actually is
(I have the original Loopy and it seems like quite a different thing than something like AUM or Audiobus.)
Is it important that the app be both midi controller and synth at the same time or do you just want to build a touchscreen midi controller? Apps like TouchOSC give you total liberty to add keys, knobs, sliders, anything and build your own controller layout. LK has different midi controller layouts with fixed amount of knobs/sliders/chord pads/…
Then there are also controller apps for specific hardware, for example: MIDISynthcontrol that is preconfigured for circuit tracks, elektron and some other synths
@MarkH : In Loopy Pro if you midi map an AUv3 parameter from an external controller, chanhes made via the AUv3's interface (if the AU was correctly implemented) are transmitted back to the controller if feedback is turned on (which is the default).
Loopy Pro is an app that can do recording (looped or linear) and is also an advanced host app with midi mapping and customizable work surface (meaning you can create buttons and sliders and dials to control AUs and pretty mich any aspect of Loopy Pro itself).
Video demo shortly.
@MarkH : uber-quick demonstration of AU parameters feeding back to a midi controller (in this case an app.it works the same with hardware).
@MarkH : uber-quick demonstration of AU parameters feeding back to a midi controller (in this case an app.it works the same with hardware).
Yes, that sounds like what I want. A demo would be great, especially if it used, say, Zeeon
I'm not looking for the app to be a MIDI controller at all, I want to use my hardware controller, which is a BCR-2000. To work properly this needs the app to be able to send MIDI CCs back to the BCR-2000 so it can update its virtual knob positions.
The demo is two or three posts up.
Thanks for doing this, I am trying to make sense of your demo video. It looks like you have created a slider inside Loopy Pro and mapped it to two different things - CC0 from your external app (StreamByter) and also to the frequency cutoff in Berlin. Is this right? Then, towards the end you seem to move the Loopy Pro slider and it both moves the Berlin slider and sends the CC out to StreamByter. Or are you moving the Berlin slider, which is what I need (or I think I need - maybe it doesn't matter, depending on my last question* below)? And is your midi monitor app monitoring in/out for Loopy Pro?
Assuming I have understood all the above, *does this mean I have to create a control (slider, knob, etc.) inside Loopy Pro for every control I want to map to my external controller (hardware in my case)?
The slider is set only to control the cutoff frequency. The slider is midi mapped to a cc. You don’t need the slider but it is often convenient to have. If you did not want have the slider, you could midi bind the auv3 parameter directly to the controller. You will need to midi map all parameters you want to control. It is fairly quick to set up with midi learn
@MarkH : in the video I mention when I am moving the auv3 slider directly to show that whether you use the auv3 slider or the slider I added in Loopy, the behavior is the same.
The monitor is the streambyter app — I told loopy that streambyter is the midi controller. So, its monitor shows what a hardware controller would receive if it were the source.
Okay, thanks. I am now fairly optimistic, so I will likely download the trial version of LP and give it a bash! Perhaps I will also be smitten by some of the other features...
Before you start the trial, you might want to watch some tutorials and a variety of performance videos. Loopy can do a lot of things
Thanks for the video: and if you change the preset does Berlin synth send the Cc value for the filter? ( in this example)
You can set up KeyStage (the iOS app, not the Korg keyboard) to do this... from the manual:
MIDI Monitor: Use the MIDI monitor to observe incoming MIDI CC messages. This can help verify the incoming messages and their values. To use the MIDI Monitor, tap a MIDI monitor button, which will then light up, and its associated item is added to the MIDI Monitor.
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Custom Translators: Custom translators can be used to modify and reroute MIDI signals. You can create a custom translator that takes the incoming MIDI CC message as input and sends it out again.
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Tracks and Parts: MIDI signals coming into tracks are routed to corresponding parts contained in the active section, processed through translators, and then routed back to the track's output. Ensure the track and part are configured to allow MIDI signals to pass through.
To repeat and send incoming MIDI CCs:
Yes. I tried a few synths and they all did it. If a synth does not update the host about state changes when changing presets, it wouldn't work. the synths I tried worked correctly.
Thanks, I'll have a look at that too. I haven't forgotten about this, I just haven't had time this week! I will report back in due course. BTW, I just bought Moog Mariana as it's on sale and this has a 'send controls' option too, although at first go I haven't been able to make it work.
Just to clarify - the Berlin synth isn't sending the a CC value. It's updating the widget that is linked to Berlin's AU parameter and that widget is sending the CC value.
The reason I mention it is to explain that most apps don't provide CC feedback. Loopy is unique in that its widgets can act as "middle men" to process CCs from hardware, update the synth, receive changes from the synth (through AU parameter linkages), and send the CC feedback to the controller to keep everything in sync.
It's important to understand the indirect relationship to avoid trying to make things work that usually won't.
(btw, Drambo is moving in this direction too in its beta versions. These are the only two hosts I'm aware of with this ability.)
Discussed in https://forum.loopypro.com/discussion/comment/1389180/#Comment_1389180
great discussion, thank you all.
My BCR2000 is a bit old, the top row encoders don’t work anymore as they should, but the other 3 rows work good. It probably will be replaced with the BCR32, if it ever sees the light of the day. The BCR2000 needs 220V, the BCR32 probably can be powered by USB. An important factor for solar powered mobile music studios. And there’s the Roto-Control. It should arrive at my place next week.
Special thanks to @espiegel123 for providing valuable information about parameter feedback, and @SteveElbows for his indefatigable efforts in the same realm.
Okay, I have now tried this with the demo version of Loopy Pro and indeed it does what I need! I tried it with the following synths, all of which update the BCR2000 when I twiddle the bound controls inside the synth:
These synths all send the CCs on preset change. Unfortunately *Zeeon doesn't send CCs on preset change, although it does work otherwise. That would be a deal breaker for Zeeon, except it appears Loopy Pro does send all the CCs for each synth on loading a saved state, so I think that is a workaround for using Zeeon.
So far I am using Loopy Pro simply as a host and I can sort of make it work. Unfortunately I won't be able to experiment any more before deciding whether to buy it as the '7 day' trial appears to be only one day for me
Thanks to all who commented, particularly @espiegel123 for making a demo video!
Ah, the trial period has now reset to 7 days! Maybe it does that for everyone
Check this latest video by polarity music
Maybe you can contact the guy who made it and find some solution, or use this controler to get what you want
Just an idea.
That's a really interesting video, and likewise the web site that shows how to build the box. It doesn't really solve my current problem, but it does tempt me to try building one! I don't know how the software side works, but it would be very instructive. I have Ableton 12, so I guess this would need a Max for Live device interface.