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Need Help Setting Up Dual Tonex Amp Setup in LP
Hello everyone,
So i have Setup some effects and a ToneX plugin as prefader in a Channel mixer in LP. Everything sounds great and assigned the output to 1&2 of my audio interface. What would be the right way to add another amp to this Setup while having the same effects.
Should I add a new mixer channel? But how would my prefader effects also go to that new amp?
Thanks in advance for any help.
Comments
There are a few ways you could go about this.
One way would be to make a new input channel, then add "clone" instances of the FX you want to have in common on it. "Clone" instances share controls between the two instances. Change one, you change the others. Those are added by picking the existing instance (indicated at the beginning of the list with a letter in its icon) rather than a new instance (down further in the list like when originally picking it, with no letter in the icon). Then add the differing amp as a separate instance. Finally muting the channel you don't want to use.
The problem with that approach is the FX won't be idled just by muting the channel. So the unused amp will still take up CPU.
Another way is to simply add the 2nd amp to the FX chain you have, then add a button to enable one FX and disable the other. That seems like the cleaner solution. However it's not as flexible from a mixing perspective. If one channel is too loud or quiet then you need to adjust using the amp output settings rather than the fader. That could be problematic.
Yet another way is to move the FX and Amps to separate Send bus. You can use the "clone" method for the FX as in the first option. Then set up a button to turn down the send on one and turn up the send on the other. In that setup, the amp sim on the turned down send will be idled. However, the "cloned" FX won't be idled. That shouldn't be an issue though as you'll want them running all the time anyway. Mute the input channel in this case so you don't get doubled up sound. Be sure the sends are set to be pre-fader.
@wim and @Tones4Christ : effects on a muted hardware input channel will mute if you change the mute position to Input. Long press on the M for the channel and you can choose Input.
Unmuted
Muted
Wow. All this time and I never knew about the long-press option on the Mute button.
It was added about a year ago during a flurry of activity. Easy to miss.
fyi - I see Mute position documented in Actions but not for the mixer button in the manual. Unless I've overlooked it.
Thanks for letting me know. I’ll add it.
@wim and @espiegel123
Oh wow that's so awesome and thanks for the detailed steps!
I forgot to mention that I would like to have a separate Amp on the left channel and another type of Amp on the right channel. Can the above setup still work with the cloned effects?
If you are wanting to use the two amps at once , I’d suggest experimenting to see what works best.
Thanks! Will try and report back how it went.
You might consider using an input channel for each amp and putting the effects on one bus. You would need an effect after the amps to hard pan them since the send will be pre-fader. BYOD can be used for that.
Where do the amps fit in your FX chain? Do you have some before the amp and some after?
Wow, didn't think of this. But when you say effects on the bus, you mean on the effects send bus?
With Tonex all my effects are in front of the amp just like the real deal. So my amp is the very last thing on the effects chain. I noticed though, that when I add the internal Tonex reverb effect, meaning the reverb effect included in the Tonex app, it really opens up the sound, more airy. I wonder if it is wired post amp and cab?
Yes
Note that the real life order is often not necessary and is an artifact of the electrical characteristics of the hardware.
Cool. I haven't tried using effects send. So I would need to create 2 effect sends busses to have them affect the two input channels with amps?
My suggestion is to try one effects bus and send the two amps to it so that you don’t need two instances of all your effects.
That's perfect. So why do I need BYOD after the amps? I mean, do I need an specific effect? Trying to wrap my head around that.
If I understood you correctly you want one amp in the left channel and one amp in the right channel. Tonex doesn’t have panning and pre-fader sends are also pre-balance knob. So you need something to pan the amps before the send otherwise the amps won’t be hard-panned.
BYOD can do the panning so that the amps are panned correctly on the effects bus
Being a room simulating FX (generally), reverb usually makes sense at the end of the FX chain. One doesn’t usually send a doom mic into their amp. I disagree with Edward that the order before and after the amp doesn’t matter. However that’s another discussion and not why I asked.
The location of your FX in relation to the amp in your FX chain affects the audio routing options. If you had some FX before your two Tonex amps and some after, that could require different bussing.
@wim said “ I disagree with Edward that the order before and after the amp doesn’t matter.“
I said that hardware often dictates the order. I did not say it doesn’t matter.
Sometimes it matters. Sometimes not so much. Sometimes being able to alter the order gives a more pleasing result.
When using hardware, you are often forced to put things before the amp that could go after if one weren’t subject to limitations of wiring.
It is worth exploring on a case-by-case basis.
@espiegel123 and @wim
Thanks for explaining. Regarding effects order, I actually like having all effects in front of the amp not because it's the right way to do it, just because that's how I did it since back in the 80's lol 😆 I'm old.
But in reality, it's because placing them in front especially with Tonex, I have been able to get the tones I always wished with digital sims. For some reason ToneX really shines in this aspect of simulation.
But, now I understand why BYOD needs to be after the ToneX amps. Does it have to have an effect enabled? Or just the app itself creates the ability to hard pan left or right?
The panning is handled by one of its modules. If you want the effects in front of the amp though, you wouldn’t use the method I suggested trying.
It seems to me that two input channels, with cloned FX, and a different ToneX at the end of each chain would work. Add a widget to mute one channel and unmute the other depending on the amp you want. Set the mute to Input.
[edit] oh wait. Panning. oops.
[edit 2] I'm not thinking this through. Sorry. I have some stuff going on. I'll step out to stop adding confusion.
Was thinking of using both Amps simultaneously. Gonna set the guitar input signal sent to both amps simultaneously but have each different amp be panned hard left or hard right.
Will try this out tomorrow. Was listening to the Trump speech.
Oh my goodnesss! Got so caught up in learning how to enable different delay effects after triggering a widget that it literally immersed me into making long soundscapes with K7D delay!
I was able to create a nice setup though but only a single amp. Still digesting all the info you guys so graciously provided! Loopy Pro is so incredibly deep and programable that there are just so many ways to do something that it boggles the mind!
Here's a pic of what I accomplished:
Also, was able to create the single channel with all effects pre fader with the Tonex Amp at the very end. Will save this Setup and tweak it as you guys suggested.
If you notice the mixer Pan knob is centered. So if I create another mixer channel then I will be able to hard Pan each channel left and right.
But my question is whether I have the mixer fader right. Should both the channel fader and master out faders be at zero? Right now I have them at -6 dB and Mute Position, should it be Input or Post-Fader?
Thanks for all you help.
The input channel should be at zero db. The master should be at as high as possible while keeping the levels just below zero db. You won't get any clipping coming from the input channel into the master because internal processing is at 32 bit and won't clip. If your master peaks at over zero db you'll get clipping on the output to the PA. If it's under, your sound technician may have problems mixing you in with the rest of the band.
If you add FX in to the master channel, then you may need to watch levels coming in to the master channel if those are sensitive to input gain.
As for muting? I don't see anywhere that you would use it above. You'd only use it if there was a channel that you wouldn't want to hear. But if you do end up copying the channel and panning left/right, you want to hear both of them. If there was a situation where you didn't want to hear a channel, then pre-FX would be the place you'd want it, so that the CPU would be freed up by idling the plugins.
Thanks @wim
Will check how this settings sound. If I recall, the reason I had to lower to minus 6 dB is cause my signal at zero was really coming out super loud out of my audio midi interface into the external mixer I use. So my audio interface has a master level out knob. I have it at like 40% Using the levels on the pics. I'll check what happens when I increase both input and master channels in LP. I might have to decrease the main out knob on my audio interface to perhaps like 15% so the levels going to the external mixer don't overload the mixer inputs. I'll try it tomorrow. Thanks Wim.
Sure, if there are external factors in the signal chain, you should make whatever adjustments needed to balance things.