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Live BPM control - time stretched samples
Trying to find a good way to modify tempo thru MIDI during a live set. I'm moving from Ableton to an IOS rig (if I can make everything work) and need some of the same control I had before. I need to be able to load an app (or multiple apps) that can handle all my samples/loops/synths for a live show, and I either need to be able to quickly load songs/projects via midi control (with appropriate bpm settings for each song), or load up a single project with all components live, with the ability to switch BPM via midi and synth patches via midi for each song.
Here are my options so far:
Nanosynth
Can probably handle all my loop/synth needs within a single project, but has no capability to slave bpm for each songBeatmaker 2
Can easily handle all my loop/sample needs, and I can include an external synth easily enough. I can potentially change tempo using my IOS setlist app (Setlist Maker running on a separate iPod Touch), but I've heard that BM2s time stretching may not honor the updated BPM (can someone confirm?).
I don't sequence anything. I'm a guitarist and most of my sample/loop triggers are performance based. We only use click on a couple of songs, so everything else I have to conform to our drummer. I use some simple timing components (delay effects and short 1-2 measure samples that need to be close to live tempo) that I sometimes have tap tempo into place with Ableton - so proper time stretched samples are sometimes needed. Hoping I can somehow achieve similar results with some IOS app.
Are there any other apps to look into, or are there any better ways to control tempo live for this type of configuration? There's no way I can type in tempos for each song - has to be midi controlled.
Comments
Loopy HD
Bro, lemme save you a lot of time and grief. Nothing on iOS will compare to Ableton. I tried, oh did I try, but your u just gonna waste a lot of time reading reviews, trying to make certain apps do something only to discover it only does a few things well but something else not at all. Don't get me wrong, loopy is great, audiobus is great, intua bm2 is great but any app that claims to be like Ableton is full of b.s. Be prepared for a whole new workflow. If you are still set on making ios work for your guitar looping needs, check out km softstep midi controller which I believe works with ios. Good luck
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I hear you. And no misconceptions here about a whole new workflow. I've definitely gotten use to some of the flexibility of Ableton, but my needs aren't so over the top that downgrading functionality isn't doable. I knew that going in to an IOS change but still feel it's doable at this time for me.
So far, BM2 is covering most of my needs pretty well. I don't think Loopy will cover me entirely, but it may be possible that I can use it when I really need to have time stretching.
Already been using a KMI Softstep and a QuNeo as part of my Ableton rig for the last 2 years. They do work well in IOS.
@shortbus said:
Can Loopy
Just wondering in case maybe it 'can' replace some of what I've started with BM2.
I would use BM2 with Loopy.
You might also want to look at Electrify NXT.
@shortbus said:
My understanding is that Loopy won't do one shots, and BM2 won't properly time stretch if the BPM is changed - though BM2 looks like it will allow me to have my entire evening's worth of samples/loops set up for on demand playback without loading new projects.
NXT looks cool - appears to have a bit of an Ableton-ish workflow (currently using Ableton in my live rig). Have heard NXT may not be polished enough for serious live use yet. Any personal experience with it?
I may buy it just to see, though my budget is starting to wear thin from 'trying out' all these apps. Hate to throw yet another $20 at something that ends up being a complete bust.
Here's a recent thread about Electrify NXT: http://forum.audiob.us/discussion/6150/anyone-using-electrify-nxt/
Have you considered a DJ app for your tempo/BPM needs? DJ Player looks to have the best MIDI implementation. No Audiobus though.
https://itunes.apple.com/app/id339810085?mt=8
I've looked at a few DJ apps, but they don't seem to quite cover all the bases either. I'll play around with DJ Player since it's at least Free for the base version.
I need the ability to tap tempo (via midi), then trigger (via midi) non-looped samples or midi synth patterns with a QMI foot controller. Essentially, I'm covering basic synth/key parts with short 2-4 bar phrase clips. Since I don't want to use a click on every song live, I simply trigger samples/clips that need to be close tempo-wise to what we're playing live. I may trigger the same sample multiple times in a section or switch between 2 or 3, but I retain control over staying in time with the drummer, so we don't have to sequence and we can improvise at a certain level without being constrained to computer time.
Obviously, easy stuff to do in Ableton-land, but not so easy with these cool, but limited, IOS apps.
I can probably cover between BM2 and Loopy - but NXT is closer to what I'm looking for because it has a usable synth that I can use with midi clips, as well. But it appears to be more loop-based than one shot based, and the stability issues mentioned in the forum are a major concern.
@rad3d said:
Not 100% sure - but I think maybe. There is an button to select "Fit Loops to time" or something similar - I always use loops and this has always been On for me ... but I would think if you turned that to Off - you could do one shots. ?
On the Loopy forum, I've been told one-shots are not supported.
Of course, I specifically want to 'fit loops to time' - I just don't want the samples to loop. I need to tap the timing in, but my one shots are generally sampled phrases - progressions that cover 2-4 bars - so there is still a timing aspect.
Wondering if Genome might be an answer.
It looks like I can use it to either play midi clips to different synths, or use it to trigger samples from either Loopy or BM2. Might even be able to set up Midi bindings against it in Loopy so that Genome controls one-shots in Loopy (play on/off), if needed.
NXT can do both loops and one-shots.
I could stand to have documentation for NXT. Have no idea how to attach midi triggers to clips, or how to set up one shots.
Wanted to follow up here based on a different discussion on this forum, as I think I have a potential solution to my workflow needs:
Loopy - running time-stretched loops
BM2 - running one shot samples and sampled keyboard tracks
ISEM/Nave - synth sounds
Genome - running one shot and looped midi clips to the ISEM, Nave and BM2 Sampled keys
Loopy runs the master midi clock. I can bind midi to both setting tempo directly and for tap tempo. BM2 has been intermittent reading Loopy's clock, so far, though I don't need it for the one shot samples and sampled keys.
Genome slaves just fine to Loopy's clock, as do the fx on the 2 synths being used.
I use Setlist Maker on a separate Ipod touch to manage my set list. Selecting a song can send CC to Loopy for default tempo. If I feel a need during a song, I have the ability to tap tempo in and modify Loopy's tempo.
Still have to load up the whole show and make sure everything holds up, but I've got everything working together pretty well at this point.
Thanks for the help.
Sounds great. What could possibly go wrong ?
.
Not a thing.
I think all the chosen apps are somewhat reliable. From my little experience with it I can't say the same of NXT, however.
Cool stuff. I hope you can make it all work and sounding good. Keep us informed.
Yup - NXT not part of the picture right now. Haven't been able to get too far with it yet. It could potentially be a great fit, as I'd prefer to have less apps in the mix - but I haven't figured it out enough to even determine if it has stability problems.
One last question - how would you guys configure this combination of apps for flexibility and stability - more Audiobus or more IAA (using BM2 as an IAA master app)?
I can't put Loopy into BM2 without clock problems so I've tried the following configurations:
Genome still has to sit outside the entire session, but everything else is covered. Using MiMix to manage the mix of all AudioBus paths.
Anything I should be concerned about with either scenario - or anything different I should do?
Out of interest, and it might be a dumb question - why do you need IAA or Audiobus?
If this is for live use couldn't you just have all the apps and synths make their own sounds using background audio? And use midi to control their respective volumes?
This would surely reduce the overhead / chance of something going wrong.
You could always record the output of your ipad via hardware if you want to record.
Yup - looking at that, as well. It's definitely nice to simply open an AudioBus session and have everything somewhat configured, but I have to open them all up anyways.
Might be where I end up for live use.
BTW - what's the best way to monitor my ipad's overhead for which apps require the most processing at any given time?