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Does a MIDI Sequencer for iPad and Loopy Pro like this exist?
Hello all, this is my first post. I've been lurking for a good week or so after buying Loopy Pro and finding myself able to write music again for the first time in a year (coming from PC/DAW world).
I know there have been a few posts around this over the years already, but nothing newer and none that seem to answer this question directly.
I'm looking to see if a MIDI sequencer iPad app with the following specific features exists that I can pair with Loopy Pro. If there isn't one that doesn't have these specific features, that is fine, and I appreciate just as much knowing for certain it doesn't. I've already looked through a good 45+ iPad MIDI sequencers and put together as much data as I could find to answer these questions, but it's still challenging to get solid answers. Atom and Helium are at the top of the list, followed by Drambo and LK+Matrix, and finally Sand, but I'm not certain any of them are quite right.
I'm looking for something very immediate - yes, as immediate as the MMT-8, Retrokits RK-008, or updated Novation Circuit Tracks, but in iPad App form with the following features:
- Looped real-time MIDI sequencing
- MIDI Clock in or Host Sync
- Overdub recording for the currently selected track/channel
- Auto-quantize (in time or applied after, but that doesn't require stopping or post-record actions)
- At least 8 tracks, preferably 16 or more (1 per MIDI channel)
- Allows polyphonic recording for chords + bass or more complex sequences
- Has per track/channel mute and solo
- Can select whatever channel I want to record into while the sequencer continues to run without stopping with a single button press
Preferably the sequencer also supports what Helium calls Remote Control Looping, where I can choose where in a pattern/sequencer/or even track if possible that the sequencer loop is taking place, regardless of where Loopy is. Ideally it also supports at least pitch bend, but I'm much less concerned with aftertouch or MIDI CC automation, as the idea is that once I've got a quantized loop of the part I'm working on, I can apply filter, cutoff, etc. in realtime while recording into Loopy with both hands. I'd also prefer AUv3. Something like Xequence has already been ruled out, not just because it doesn't support AUv3, but because it won't allow something else to be the MIDI master clock.
My workflow, and one of the big reasons I love Loopy Pro, is that I can start by recording a vocal track that sets the length and temp of the song, and then very quickly add any additional parts I want across any of my hardware in real-time. Loopy maintains the MIDI master clock role, which I run out a Babyface Pro fs to the rest of my gear. While I'll need to change some cables around for my Studiologic to continue to be my keybed while using an iPad sequencer, that is absolutely fine if I can find what I'm looking for.
Lastly, I don't mind if there are lots of other features for the app, but they cannot interfere with the base goal of the immediate simplicity of getting quantized sequences across my MIDI channels down above and beyond anything else. I think for this reason something like LK is not likely to work for me, but maybe I'm wrong and just haven't seen the right info.
I'm currently in Mexico, so just getting a physical piece of gear like the MMT-8, Retrokits RK-008, MidiSeq, a Yamaha QY or RS7000, or most other things isn't possible at all due to significant customs restrictions beyond just IVA. The Novation Circuit Traks is something available, but supports 4 tracks for sequencing external gear (yes, 1+2 can also be used) max. While with updates it seems otherwise a single unit is potentially well-suited to a good deal of the base I'm looking for, it would be at least challenging to run two of them on the same MIDI bus. I have a MOTU Midi Timepiece, possibly I could do some tweak mapping that would allow me to use different channels and convert them to 1 and 2 on the appropriate output, but ... well, I'd really like to find an iPad app that will do what I'm looking for and avoid buying any more physical gear.
I appreciate your time, and thank you.
[Edit]Wanted to add that very few of these apps have a trial and must be purchased to answer questions not listed anywhere, which I'm trying to avoid for a bunch of apps I won't use if they won't do the basics. Would really prefer not to have extra cruff, I have so very many plugins for the PC for similar reasons, becomes a serious headache.[/Edit]
Comments
When midi looping is released in Loopy Pro, it will satisfy the requirements as you've written them. Shouldn't be too long now, but that's been said before. There's no announced ETA at this time.
I've seen the same posted across many forums, and it may be great, but I'm not banking on it anytime soon. If it comes and has those features, it would be awesome and simplify a great deal. In the interim, I'm really hoping there is something that will fit the bill and allow me to move forward.
Have you looked into Prism yet?
Drambo too. You can ignore the modular aspect of it and focus simply on the sequencing. I lack for nothing in the sequencing department with Drambo inside Loopy Pro.
I haven't been able to find information indicating Prism itself works as an AUv3 app rather than only as a host, whether it supports Midi Sync In or Host sync, and whether you can change channels and keep loop recording without stopping. It seems to have many of the other features I've mentioned, but I also don't know how immediate it is. If someone has used the app that answer those questions, that would be awesome, and thank you.
Most indications are that Drambo takes some initial investment to get off the ground to do what most people need, but I'm fine with that if I know that it can do everything in that list. I haven't been able to determine if Drambo allows looped recording and looped overdub and how immediate it is in terms of that simplified workflow. If someone knows the answers to those questions, it would help a lot, and thank you.
Most people are intimidated by Drambo because of all it can do. But if you just use it as a sequencer, it's as easy and immediate as any sequencer there is. It can do everything in your list. You'll get plenty of people dropping in her either to back me up or contradict me. Listen to them. They surely know more about the subject than I do.
My opinion is if you're used to any hardware sequencer you will not have a problem picking up sequencing in Drambo.
There are detailed videos covering every part of Prism on the product page I linked. I don't have it, and have only skimmed the videos, so I can't answer for it as a fit for your needs.
I'll keep it in mind and move it up in the list. I have a Synthstrom Deluge, a Novation Circuit OG, a Social Entropy Engine, and have owned and used a variety of other hardware sequencers and grooveboxes.
But my favorite and most immediate by far for nearly everything I ever wanted to do was the borrowed MMT-8 paired with a 16-part multitimbral Alesis QS6.1 many, many years ago. Have not owned or had access to anything else in the same vein since, am greatly hoping to learn of an iPad app that fits the bill just right before I start buying more.
For reference, one of the things that moved Drambo down the list was this reddit post from about a year ago indicating it wouldn't be as immediate or streamlined as I was looking for:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ipadmusic/comments/1cj1ldw/good_sequencer_for_aum/
Thanks - I'd come across the page before and read through but haven't found specific info yet. I did another quick search and it seems there is at least one example where it's being used in AUM, so seems like it will possibly load in Loopy Pro as well since it already supports AUv3. With some more promising info, I can at least take it out of jail now and consider it, since it does seem to support several other options in the list.
Thank you
The demo videos take a long time to work through, but they cover everything thoroughly. Don't let the goofy hat put you off too much. 😂
Lol, thanks. Goofy isn't bad, and additional digging isn't bad either, but having a more refined starting point is helpful
Oh! SoundForMore has tutorials on Prism. That guy is a terrific educator.
FWIW, I've spent roughly 6 hours with Prism so far and I'm still scratching the surface. It's not at all immediate and intuitive to me, and I'm pretty good at figuring out apps. I'm gradually getting it, but I can't say it's been a real pleasant trip. All the information is out there to master it fortunately, but usually when I need to resort to that just to get the basics, I'm not thrilled with an app. Looks powerful, but for my taste is pretty awkward. I might change my mind in a few weeks or months as I adjust to it, but I don't think it's going to get used much here.
Contrast with Drambo, where I grasped the essentials of the sequencer in a few minutes, and mastered it in less than an hour. (I'm not trying to sell you on Drambo, just relating my experiences.)
Another one that I tried recently is mker. I liked it better than Prism, but again, am not thrilled with it. It might be worth checking out though. Another user thought it was perfect.
That is really helpful feedback - I hadn't gotten a chance to dig into the Prism videos yet, but my impression up front was that it wasn't going to be as straightforward as I would like.
Before digging into iPad apps at all, I had started to put together list of hardware sequencers to consider, and I've continued adding to that list and identifying functionality and ease of use. While several things are not immediately available here in Mexico, there are many things I could potentially order in advance from Perfect Circuit and bring back with me. I am still hopeful I'll find a decent solution on the iPad first. Even as a programmer, I do not relish the idea of trying to write one myself just to solve a problem that was already solved in hardware
I hadn't come across that one yet, thank you. It does seem to support real-time recording, though is designed as a clip-based step sequencer first it seems.
I have Sand on the list as well, though Helium I think has taken the top spot for the moment. I've already considered and discarded:
I also looked and and discarded Quantum, midiSequencer, and GR16, and while I know not supporting AUv3 was part of it, I didn't record the other reasons they really don't seem to fit the scope either.
Your rule-out list seems accurate to me.
You might not think it, but Koala is surprisingly capable as a sequencer, and as immediate as it gets. It's one of those apps that's worth having whether it fits the end need or not. It probably doesn't fit all your criteria fully though. You need the Samurai IAP for midi out sequencing.
Helium could be an excellent choice.
I will add Koala and explore it a bit more. I've certainly seen it come up many times, but hadn't realized it had sequencing abilities itself.
I love Prism .. I’ve been beta testing it from pretty near its inception and it’s been my go-to sequencer ever since. I also agree that It’s not the most immediately intuitive sequencer out there. Having said that, it works very well for how I like to create and there is a lot of depth to it if you’re willing to stick with it and learn.
I think the initial draw for me, though, was the hardware feel I got from using Prism; once everything is routed in my host (usually AUM, sometimes Loopy Pro), I can work for long stretches without leaving Prism’s UI, giving the feel like I’m on an Elektron box or something.. I can just focus on the tool and the creation without getting distracted by anything outside the box. For whatever reason, I get this hardware feeling (along with a less distracted workflow) when using Prism more so than any other iOS sequencers I’ve used. Go figure.
We’re all musicians, creators, makers, whatever and we like what we like .. I’m not trying to sell anyone on anything here, just wanted to give my two cents.
It's a fair take, and thank you.
While in hardware the MMT-8 was the most immediate along with the others mentioned that I'm trying to find in an app, when it comes to PC, Renoise is my go to, coming from FT2 and a tracker background. If you're comfortable with a tracker and understand how it works, it is one of the fastest most immediate sequencers on the planet. It doesn't matter if I'm doing melodies, chords, or drums, I have complete control over every aspect of song creation I want. It provides sequenced or unsequenced MIDI recording while still showing every minutia of editable detail you could ask for. Tons of transpose, humanize, and swing controls that can be applied at many layers. Very clean and uncluttered interface if you understand what you're looking at. It can loop individual sections of any pattern across all tracks for easily adding new parts against each other, or across multiple patterns. Immense amount of control. The only thing I've found it doesn't excel at is showing you audio file waveforms directly on the tracks so you have a visual reference. It has VST2 and VST3 support, and supports several existing hardware MIDI controllers with extensible scripting for adding more.
But I also wouldn't recommend it for most people. While I cut my teeth on it and understand it, it's not what is going to jive for most people, who typically find it complicated and unintuitive. And for most people, that's spot on. It's not how most people write music.
More, not only it does it not cover all the basis I listed, it must be used on a PC, Mac, or in Linux. Those things come with all the headaches that killed my ability to write music or go near a computer to do so, in the middle of an expensive music fundamentals production course.
I'm leveraging the simplified workflow of Loopy for now as it works. I have a DrumBrute Impact coming that is exactly to the point and uncomplicated with no sampling that still gives me the sounds I want out of the box with a great sense of immediacy while still being quickly tweakable.
Now I want that simplified immediacy out of a MIDI sequencer. Nothing complicated or in the way is ever going to serve the purpose of being able to focus on music like the other elements in this chain without distractions, or with all the extras that will only serve to be in the way.
That is what I'm looking for, that is what I'd like to see. If it doesn't exist exactly that way for the iPad, that is fine, and I can turn my search to focus solely on hardware.
You are right - Koala, at least on paper, actually might cover all of the basics I listed. I have to validate it is polyphonic, not seeing an explicit statement in the docs. But it seems to provide press button to select record channel, looping, switching channels while still playing, switching from record to playback mode for a channel, overdubbing, and much more. I would never have realized that level of functionality could be had through an IAP for what is stated as a sampler like this, thank you!
Sure, it's polyphonic.
It may not meet your needs in the end, but you'll absolutely get your money's worth out of it, and it won't take long to learn.
It doesn't have any bells and whistles like probability per note, midi CC recording or output, ratchets, cycle conditions, etc. etc, etc. Just notes and velocity in a piano roll. You might not want to waste your time if you need any more advanced features. But it's fun to have in any case.
Just chiming in to say that as fantastic as SAND is, it is not auv3 itself. Only a host.
Also having read through this entire thread i believe Drambo is the sequencer you're looking for. It's a wildly capable sequencer with all the features you've listed and more, and well worth the buy even if you never touch any of the modular stuff and only use the sequencer. Also the modular stuff interface tucks away cleanly so you don't even have to look at it if it's just the sequencer you're after.
Loopy pro hosting Drambo is a foolishly powerful combo for creating nearly any clip based midi /audio workflow.
I also agree that it's possible Koala will fit the bill for you, but even if it doesn't in the end Koala is a must have IMO. It's the only music App I recommend to anyone regardless of if they're a musician or not. It's that simple, it's that intuitive, it's that fun.
@EnergyCrush Loopy Pro has linear clip and linear song mode. This linear approach should be the base as you and put any notes at anywhere as you like. On top you may found an extra layer of STEP sequencer helpful. Not the other way around. I will not use a pure step sequencer like mKer as my base sequencer
@wim If I host Drambo under Loopy Pro, can I run a single instance of Drambo and assign different tracks to different output channels that pair with Loopy Pro's tracks?
I can do that on AUM, seens not okay for sequencers with multi I/O hosted on GR2
No, I think actually I'd prefer to avoid most of those. The MMT-8 didn't have most of them either I don't think. One that it did have was being able to record pitch bend, and I'm not sure if that is usually MIDI CC data or not - like after touch, it seems slightly unique, but I'm not actually sure.
The simplicity really is the goal. If I want variation of notes and sequences, I'd prefer to play them in as separate sequences/recordings in the sequencer or Loopy, including variations of cutoff, resonance, or just the notes themselves.
I am currently already recording what I play straight in, and mostly that is fine. I want the sequencer to come first for two reasons: one, so I can auto-quantize more challenging parts before I record the audio into Loopy, and two, so I can apply cutoff, resonance, or other controls in real-time while I record into Loopy.
I don't want to automate MIDI CC beyond pitch bend in some cases, though I'm not sure that is treated the same. I also explicitly don't want a step sequencer in this case, as I'm playing by hand as I riff new parts, not programming them in.
For drums I'll be using an Arturia DrumBrute Impact, which has its own sequencer if I want it there, synced to Loopy as the master clock like everything else.
I'm not looking for Loopy to be a full DAW and arranger at this point in time. Maybe I'll use it that way in the future and take advarage of the song mode at some point, but right now I just want to be able to capture the audio loops from my vocals and gear, then I'll pull the audio clips into something else like Audacity, Renoise, Ableton, Studio One ... whatever ends up feeling the least burdensome for control and arrangement of the parts with separation of duties from Loopy as my capture for now.
The real-time sequencer having multiple tracks and being able to set loop points to separate from song start and end is purely for helpful management of separate parts and being able to go back and re-record a part with either different sound from the same piece of hardware with the same notes, or if I'm hearing some other tweak element or variation I want to capture to use for a separate verse or something. It's really syntantic sugar for being able to capture any single quantized loop in real-time.
Ah - thank you on Sand. I wasn't certain, I hadn't seen that listed clearly anywhere.
Drambo may well be it, but the reason it wasn't top of the list atm is because of the link I posted before and getting the sense that it may not be as immediate as other solutions, either having more steps up front or navigation to be able to get to the loop recording state. Would be happy to learn that isn't accurate and it is just as immediate as the MMT-8, Novation Tracks, or Retrokits RK-008.
If Drambo can do those things in the list, I don't mind that it can do more even if I'll never use it as long as those extras don't get in the way at all of getting straight to the things I'm after.
Hm, I don't know how to delete a comment here ...