Seems all iOS Hosts have some important sequencer/midi features missing (cost of iOS sequencing)

EnergyCrush

@wim said:

@EnergyCrush said:
I came up with a specific list of features from that while digging, and it seems like Helium, and quite possibly Drambo, have them all. I haven't watched videos of Drambo yet, and think like others I was initially put off by posts on forums that gave the sense it wasn't going to be a very immediate workflow solution - I've since learned it may well be, possibly out of the box.

If you do watch any Drambo videos, try to find ones that are recent and that are focused only on the sequencer.

The sequencer is radically improved over earlier releases, and most videos will be misleading due to being out of date. Try to find ones that stick purely to the sequencer and don't get lost in the weeds.

You can easily ignore everything else about Drambo. In fact, that's how it comes out of the box. You have to purposely add anything other than the sequencer. But finding recent videos focused on that might be challenging.

Sorry, I don't have any recommendations for you. I don't watch many videos.

Lol, no worries, I appreciate all of your posts and feedback. I will almost certainly be picking up Drambo at some point here, though I'm going to take an honest stab with what I've got first and feel out any pain points. Picked up the plugins I wanted for my vocal chain last night after a couple solid days of more delving, at least until FabFilter goes on sale again ...

jklovemusic

@wim said:

@EnergyCrush said:
I came up with a specific list of features from that while digging, and it seems like Helium, and quite possibly Drambo, have them all. I haven't watched videos of Drambo yet, and think like others I was initially put off by posts on forums that gave the sense it wasn't going to be a very immediate workflow solution - I've since learned it may well be, possibly out of the box.

If you do watch any Drambo videos, try to find ones that are recent and that are focused only on the sequencer.

The sequencer is radically improved over earlier releases, and most videos will be misleading due to being out of date. Try to find ones that stick purely to the sequencer and don't get lost in the weeds.

You can easily ignore everything else about Drambo. In fact, that's how it comes out of the box. You have to purposely add anything other than the sequencer. But finding recent videos focused on that might be challenging.

Sorry, I don't have any recommendations for you. I don't watch many videos.

Today I solved an edge case with Drambo sequencer. I will keep the practice to learn how to tackle edge cases with Drambo from now on instead of seeking/adding new apps.

GR2 & SAND for 95%, everything ELSE with Drambo.
I guess this is a more practical approach for musicians stepping into production. I only know how to play and compose, I know nth about the tech side.

jklovemusic

@jklovemusic said:

@wim said:

@EnergyCrush said:
I came up with a specific list of features from that while digging, and it seems like Helium, and quite possibly Drambo, have them all. I haven't watched videos of Drambo yet, and think like others I was initially put off by posts on forums that gave the sense it wasn't going to be a very immediate workflow solution - I've since learned it may well be, possibly out of the box.

If you do watch any Drambo videos, try to find ones that are recent and that are focused only on the sequencer.

The sequencer is radically improved over earlier releases, and most videos will be misleading due to being out of date. Try to find ones that stick purely to the sequencer and don't get lost in the weeds.

You can easily ignore everything else about Drambo. In fact, that's how it comes out of the box. You have to purposely add anything other than the sequencer. But finding recent videos focused on that might be challenging.

Sorry, I don't have any recommendations for you. I don't watch many videos.

Today I solved an edge case with Drambo sequencer. I will keep the practice to learn how to tackle edge cases with Drambo from now on instead of seeking/adding new apps.

GR2 & SAND for 95% sequencing, everything ELSE with Drambo.
I guess this is a more practical approach for musicians stepping into production. I only know how to play and compose, I know nth about the tech side.

jklovemusic

@EnergyCrush said:

@jklovemusic said:
May I know what make Helium stand out for you and what features u gave up?

Per my other post, I've been looking for something as immediate as some hardware MIDI sequencers, like the old Alesis MMT-8 and modern remake Retrokits RK-008, or the Novation Circuits Tracks.

I came up with a specific list of features from that while digging, and it seems like Helium, and quite possibly Drambo, have them all. I haven't watched videos of Drambo yet, and think like others I was initially put off by posts on forums that gave the sense it wasn't going to be a very immediate workflow solution - I've since learned it may well be, possibly out of the box.

The Helium MasterClass videos provided an excellent view of Helium's workflow, and more importantly, demonstrated that many of the extra features it does have don't get in the way of the core feature set I want, so I don't have to think about them at all initially, but as I grow into the sequencer, I may well find myself wanting to use them - especially the scale and chord features. As a counter example, this is where Scaler 2 feels like it fails my litmus test, as while it is designed around those scale and chord features, many reviews indicate they impact workflow significantly, sometimes painfully so.

The specific features I boiled down were:

• Looped real-time MIDI sequencing (ideally where loop start can be independent of host loop start)
• MIDI Clock in or Host Sync
• Overdub recording for the currently selected track/channel
• Auto-quantize (ideally non-destructive, but at least doesn't require stopping or post-record actions)
• At least 8 tracks, preferably 16 or more (1 per MIDI channel)
• Allows polyphonic recording for chords or more complex sequences
• Has per track/channel mute and solo
• Can select whatever channel I want to record on while sequencer continues to run w/o stopping, with a single button press

So far, it doesn't seem like I'm needing to give up anything with Helium yet - everything else is a minor pro or con, but no major cons I've seen yet. Of course it may not be the same feature set that everyone else wants, so they may be giving up something I don't care about in Helium.

I ultimately chose Helium over Atom, Prism, and LK+Matrix, as it seems like while close, they will not have the same immediacy of getting ideas out quickly, layering, and reworking sequences as I whip a song into shape as I feel it out.

Sand got passed because it can't be hosted inside Loopy, and I don't want to run something extra like AUM if I don't have to.

For others considered and discarded:

• Neon (while 8-64 steps, anything beyond 8 appears to require repeating one or more of the 8 step notes)
• BeatMaker 3 (does not appear to work as an AUv3 app, but also appears both buggy and not a very immediate workflow)
• midiDREAMs (does not appear to support real-time recording, also limited octave range)
• Xequencer 2 (does not appear to support MIDI clock in, and no host sync since it is not a hostable app)
• Rozeta (it does not appear any of the MIDI tools really fit these ideas)
• StepPolyArp (does not appear to support real-time recording or auto-quantize)
• Zoa (no real-time recording)
• Gadget (does not work as a plugin app, contained environment, very over the top and outside the scope)
• MIDI Tape Recorder (no auto-quantize)

I also looked and and discarded Quantum, midiSequencer, and GR16, and while I know not supporting AUv3 was part of it, I didn't record the other reasons they really don't seem to fit the scope either.

EG Nodes was also discarded, I think primarily because it also doesn't seem to be positioned with that that same immediate workflow that I want, and possibly the nodes didn't really support all of the core feature set being looked for.

Any of the several others I had on the list did not stand out from initial research as being either capable of or likely a better candidate for the feature set, and I didn't dig into most of them nearly as much ... save for DigiKeys, which did hit a lot of points, but was challenging to find answers about whether it supported several of the others, like Overdub, Auto-Quantize, Polyphonic recording, and a few other minor things like Pitch Bend recording.

I think u made a great choice! If you own AUM or if Loppy Pro support IAA sync then GR2 also fit the bill.

EnergyCrush

@jklovemusic said:

@EnergyCrush said:

@jklovemusic said:
May I know what make Helium stand out for you and what features u gave up?

Per my other post, I've been looking for something as immediate as some hardware MIDI sequencers, like the old Alesis MMT-8 and modern remake Retrokits RK-008, or the Novation Circuits Tracks.

I came up with a specific list of features from that while digging, and it seems like Helium, and quite possibly Drambo, have them all. I haven't watched videos of Drambo yet, and think like others I was initially put off by posts on forums that gave the sense it wasn't going to be a very immediate workflow solution - I've since learned it may well be, possibly out of the box.

The Helium MasterClass videos provided an excellent view of Helium's workflow, and more importantly, demonstrated that many of the extra features it does have don't get in the way of the core feature set I want, so I don't have to think about them at all initially, but as I grow into the sequencer, I may well find myself wanting to use them - especially the scale and chord features. As a counter example, this is where Scaler 2 feels like it fails my litmus test, as while it is designed around those scale and chord features, many reviews indicate they impact workflow significantly, sometimes painfully so.

The specific features I boiled down were:

• Looped real-time MIDI sequencing (ideally where loop start can be independent of host loop start)
• MIDI Clock in or Host Sync
• Overdub recording for the currently selected track/channel
• Auto-quantize (ideally non-destructive, but at least doesn't require stopping or post-record actions)
• At least 8 tracks, preferably 16 or more (1 per MIDI channel)
• Allows polyphonic recording for chords or more complex sequences
• Has per track/channel mute and solo
• Can select whatever channel I want to record on while sequencer continues to run w/o stopping, with a single button press

So far, it doesn't seem like I'm needing to give up anything with Helium yet - everything else is a minor pro or con, but no major cons I've seen yet. Of course it may not be the same feature set that everyone else wants, so they may be giving up something I don't care about in Helium.

I ultimately chose Helium over Atom, Prism, and LK+Matrix, as it seems like while close, they will not have the same immediacy of getting ideas out quickly, layering, and reworking sequences as I whip a song into shape as I feel it out.

Sand got passed because it can't be hosted inside Loopy, and I don't want to run something extra like AUM if I don't have to.

For others considered and discarded:

• Neon (while 8-64 steps, anything beyond 8 appears to require repeating one or more of the 8 step notes)
• BeatMaker 3 (does not appear to work as an AUv3 app, but also appears both buggy and not a very immediate workflow)
• midiDREAMs (does not appear to support real-time recording, also limited octave range)
• Xequencer 2 (does not appear to support MIDI clock in, and no host sync since it is not a hostable app)
• Rozeta (it does not appear any of the MIDI tools really fit these ideas)
• StepPolyArp (does not appear to support real-time recording or auto-quantize)
• Zoa (no real-time recording)
• Gadget (does not work as a plugin app, contained environment, very over the top and outside the scope)
• MIDI Tape Recorder (no auto-quantize)

I also looked and and discarded Quantum, midiSequencer, and GR16, and while I know not supporting AUv3 was part of it, I didn't record the other reasons they really don't seem to fit the scope either.

EG Nodes was also discarded, I think primarily because it also doesn't seem to be positioned with that that same immediate workflow that I want, and possibly the nodes didn't really support all of the core feature set being looked for.

Any of the several others I had on the list did not stand out from initial research as being either capable of or likely a better candidate for the feature set, and I didn't dig into most of them nearly as much ... save for DigiKeys, which did hit a lot of points, but was challenging to find answers about whether it supported several of the others, like Overdub, Auto-Quantize, Polyphonic recording, and a few other minor things like Pitch Bend recording.

I think u made a great choice! If you own AUM or if Loppy Pro support IAA sync then GR2 also fit the bill.

Thanks!

GR2 can be hosted inside of Loopy Pro?

jklovemusic

Cannot

iamspoon

BAM might be worth a look … really excellent flow when recording over multiple tracks without stopping transport and I also think meets most of your other listed requirements.

https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/bam-beat-maker-music-maker/id1637599765

Doesn’t record MPE or even pitchbend (!) though yet and has a couple of other omissions but is being actively developed and refined.

wim

@jklovemusic said:
Cannot

Can.

Sort of.

You can set it up as an IAA input, which isn't technically running in the host, but is sending the master audio out into Loopy. Tempo and Start/Stop are synced as well. There is no state saving, so you have to save and manually load the project in GR-2 each time you use it. You can't place it as an FX, so you can't sample from Loopy into GR-2 without the "KQ Loopback" app hack-around.

Start GR-2 outside of Loopy Pro before trying to load it as an Inter-App Audio Input, or it will fail to load most times. That's true for most IAA apps in any host.

jklovemusic

@wim said:

@jklovemusic said:
Cannot

Can.

Sort of.

Thanks for sharing the IAA tips. Dame when would the full Ableton link be restored…

wim

@jklovemusic said:
Thanks for sharing the IAA tips. Dame when would the full Ableton link be restored…

Yes, that will be nice. In the meantime, loading GR-2 in another host that does have full Ableton Link support, like Loopy or AUM, will cause GR-2 to start and stop with other apps.