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So how's MIDI 2.0 adoption going? 😬
According to GPT-4o:
(sorry had to! 😂)
Yeah I mean, it did look promising and obviously would've solved almost all issues that MIDI has.
However, it does seem to have the same problem as IPv6: Vastly overengineered for 99% of use cases, Design By Committee, and very slow adoption.
Your thoughts?
Comments
Wow wow wow, hold your horses, pal!
Those DAW and Plugin Host developers are working hard on figuring out how to implement that recent 14-Bit MIDI standard from 1991.
So you can expect MIDI 2.0 implementation about ... well ... I'm sure my grandchildren will be able to use it.
😄 Didn't even know about a specific 14-bit extension from 1991... or do you mean (N)RPNs or "dual-controllers" (1/33) or something? (Xequence does support 14-bit (N)RPNs...)
Its understandable that people are skeptical about it due to how early on the first marketing attempts began.
But as far as Im concerned, how long this phase takes is not a safe guide as to whether it will ultimately be a success.
There are many different parts to it and a whole bunch of scenarios where it may or may not become compelling in future. For example some people dont like USB for MIDI in some situations, and the networked MIDI side of MIDI 2.0 may eventually have an important role to play there, but its way too early to tell because the formal spec for the MIDI 2.0 network transport was only adopted relatively recently.
For most musicians, it will be down to whether manufacturers make compelling uses of various bits of MIDI 2.0 that determines whether attitudes change and stuff becomes desirable. Specific product features will also be a much better way to educate people as to benefits of specific MIDI 2.0 functionality, and then to judge whether people want to adopt it, rather than a nerd like me going on about these features from a formal technical specification standpoint or a 'look at the raw potential' perspective.
There is plenty of MIDI 2.0 stuff now available at the operating system level for macs, iOS devices, ipadOS devices, and even on Android. Windows has been slow to get their MIDI 2.0 stuff done but it did hit a milestone weeks ago (available in a Windows 11 canary build) and so the end of that stumbling block, that has no doubt held some other manufacturers back, is now visible on the horizon. The next obvious barriers will come down to speed of DAW/host adoption.
You can already use MIDI 2.0 if you use apps like WoodTroller and WoodSynth. Korg has dabbled with the auto-parameter-mapping side of MIDI 2.0 in a handful of their synths, and a keyboard controller. At least one keyboard controller takes advantage of high res MIDI 2.0 note velocity. Users of Waldorf Quantum/Iridium beta firmware can experience several aspects of MIDI 2.0 over USB. A couple of DAWs have some support but dont shout very loudly about it. These are humble beginnings so I am not trying to make big claims by mentioning them, but they are a start.
Also worth considering that when it comes to adoption, is that what is foreseen is a mixed world, nothing like a 'format war' where MIDI 2.0 needs to completely beat and replace MIDI 1.0 in order to be deemed a success. We already know that due to the nature of musical instruments etc, the original MIDI spec has hung around for decades longer than most other digital protocols in the broader world of technology. That isnt about to change. If MIDI 2.0 catches on in the next 5-10 years, people will end up with hybrid setups that involve a mix of both MIDI 1.0 and MIDI 2.0, co-existing within the same broader setup. Presently, the old DIN connections only work with a small amount of what MIDI 2.0 adds to the picture, a lot of the new stuff requires USB or network connections. But aside from that, there is plenty built into the spec and implementations of MIDI 2.0 that is designed to bridge the gap, and allow both forms of MIDI to work in the system, without the user needing to know whats going on under the hood. So there shouldnt be much in the way of painful choices or sacrifices to make if products start to arrive that people want to dabble with.
Yes thats what I meant. Just simplified it.
I know Xequence 2 is a shining light there, including MPE support. The problem is that it doesn't has any use if the controlled DAW/Plugin Host does not unterstand it. So the playback using Xequence goes nowhere.
Maybe make Xequence 3 an AUv3 Host? 😏
And MIDI 2.0 suffers exactly the same.
It has to be implemented by DAW/Plugin Host. There is no other way that it will work.
For what it’s worth Logic Pro for iPad has an option switch for MIDI 2.0 in the settings.
Most people don't need Midi 2.0. Or they (myself included) have no idea of the advantages it would provide to them personally. MPE was a hack that pretty much satisfied power users. MPE enabled hardware drove that adoption.
"If it ain't broke don't fix it." is a pretty strong source of inertia for all but power users.
What will drive it is someone coming out with a groundbreaking piece of hardware that makes the advantages of midi 2.0 clear for the average user. Then, since it'll likely be too high-end for most budgets, there will need to be cheap Behringer or Chinese knockoffs of it.
"Everybody's a critic" - Bob Moog
I heard him say that at a NAMM show back in the 90s.
I urge everyone here to go to midi.org, get a free account and download the specs so that you can see for yourself the state of MIDI 2. As the chairman of the MPE committee I've been working on MIDI 2 specs for about 4 years now. Things to be aware of that have come together recently.
Honestly, IT IS taking a long time. It's a really complicated problem upgrading the last 40 years of MIDI through the efforts of an all volunteer organization, the MIDI Association. That being said I believe that results are going to be good and even necessary for next steps with music technology. I hope that some of you will consider joining the MIDI Association and help with the work to create MIDI 2 Profiles.
Pat Scandalis
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moForte, inc
[email protected]
http://www.moforte.com
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MIDI 2.0 will finally get wider use. It takes time. I still remember the early nineties when a weird port appeared on newer computers. Because of missing compatible hardware and ongoing driver issues it was called “Useless Serial Bus”…
Theres a bunch of different possibilities based around the various 2.0 features. Some of them wont be exclusive to the high end, although of course it is hard to predict exactly what price points will include one or more of these things udirng the first momentum-building years.
This list isnt complete but offers some guide as to the different areas. I am deliberately not using the official terminology too often here:
Automatic configuration, mapping and awareness between devices
Profiles to standardise the messages used in various scenarios
Higher resolution
More dimensions of per-note expression, per note tuning etc
More MIDI channels (16 groups of 16 channels each)
A networking standard that may catch on more than existing attempts
Some of those have far more mainstream, non-high end potential than others, although I dont rule out some stuff that would currently be considered niche becoming far more mainstream eventually due to these standardisation efforts gradually lowering the barriers to entry.....
The automatic config stuff has the potential to remove a clear pain point where plenty of musicians havent been able to make the most of various combinations of hardware and software because the manual mapping & config steps were too confusiong or tedious for them.
Profiles are a similar story, offering the prospect of some of the ideas from General MIDI and things like the note mappings most commonly used for drums being expanded upon and equivalents delivered for a range of other scenarios, such as orchestral articulation control, drawbar organs. etc etc. The same might happen for various forms of synthesis, and stuff I havent thought of, but only time will tell.
Although there are some high end MPE devices, and devices that have physical control over even more aspects on a per note basis may not come cheap, there is a lower end of that market that already exists and could choose to adopt some of the new stuff in future. Including software-only stuff, an area that some ipad apps have more than hinted at over the years.
A lot of what excites me most involves combinations of hardware and software that adopt some of this stuff. But there are software-only scenarios too, with low price points, and so I wont be surprised if many peoples first experiences with MIDI 2.0 are software only, or mostly software and just one piece of hardware. As such I will make no assumptions about stuff only being available at high-end price points.
Interesting read, thnx. "More dimensions of per-note expression" - I wonder what other dimensions, any examples?
a small example of the advantage of the midi V2 higher resolution :
my WoodVerberator (reverb plugin) supports midi V2 and the manual describes the difference between v1 and v2 :
9.2 Check Extended resolution (32 bits)
Set a WoodTroller rotary to the WoodVerberator IR time (CC 104).
In Midi V1 the CC value is 7 bits (128 values) and the IR time range is 10 s, which leads to a time
step of 10 s / 128 = 0.078 s.
When switching off Midi V2 in Woodtroller or in WoodVerberator and turning the WoodTroller
rotary, you will indeed see that the IR time changes with jumps of +- 80 ms.
When Midi V2 is switched on, the CC value now has 32 bits (4.3 Giga values) which is way more than the UI
hardware can handle. Turning the rotary now allows any ms value.
I didnt word that very well really. I mean obviously there are limitations of real world physics, manufacturing and of playing precision. So the ability to have far more parameter control on a per-note basis may instead often end up showing up in the context of editing stuff in a sequencer/timeline. But maybe there will be companies that dabble further with the actual playing surface too, or with blends of more traditional controls on the main panel but with added UI functionality that causes some of those realtime changes to only apply to some of the notes that are currently being played.
In theory theres a world of experimental MPE sequencing and non-touch based modulation that could already be done, and although only a few have dabbled with that so far, having more than a few per-note control signals would open that up even more, beyond what you could do with existing MPE. This includes the prospect of being able to add far more modulation to synths that support the per-note stuff, eg if your synth didnt have as many lfos as you would like, you could use additional software or hardware to add more per-voice lfos. Same story if you are seeking more elaborate or exotic lfo shapes, envelope shapes etc than the synth provides itself.
I could also take some of what I just said and run off in another weird direction with it, by thinking about another sort of tech that has been a slow burner that has so far struggled to escape the impression of being a gimmick when applied to certain field including music. Spatial stuff, VR, AR. Just because it hasnt set the world on fire so far, doesnt mean we wont one day find ourselves in a world where people do all sorts of object or body tracking that people want to hook to an instrument in a manner that goes beyond global modulation and requires per-note influence over the instrument. Such endeavours might remain esoteric, but its still good to have a tech foundation there that could support everything from the experimental to the mainstream should the masses become inspired.
Anyway thats just one example, there will be others. If we ever get leaps in haptics and customisable interfaces (eg screens where tactile surfaces can emerge on demand) then the world of MPE can expand beyond the experience that touchscreens currently offer. Or something that expands on my previous lfo point, eg we might get more modulators based on physics simulations and the desire to plug those into synths that dont have them built in, on a per-note/voice basis. Or people might want to do more stuff with physical strings controlling electronic instruments.
In MIDI 2 there are per-note controllers and there can be thousands of different per note controllers for each note. This covers some of the same ground as MPE but in a different way. Note, that's not saying that MPE will go away in MIDI 2, it's just a different way to do similar things.
In MIDI 2 a Profile is a contract between senders and receivers for how they will interpret the semantics of the MIDI messages, what the messages mean and what they are expected to do. MPE is a Profile. There is a Profile for Drawbar Organs, Pianos, General MIDI 1, General MIDI 2, Drum Note maps. More are coming.
The Orchestral Articulation profile defines a set of several hundred articulations and messages for things like Staccato, Legato, Hammer Ons, Pull Offs ... the list is long. You can view the profile here:
https://midi.org/midi-ci-profile-for-note-on-selection-of-orchestral-articulation
That being said, essentially any set of semantics you can think of can be defined in a Profile. If you have an idea for a Profile, please know that anyone is welcome to join the MIDI Association, create a committee, gather cross industry stake holders, and work though the process of creating a ratified standard.
I expect that the number of Profiles for various applications to grow over the years. If you want a high level overview of MIDI 2, a few years ago I presented this to a group of Instrument creators at Stanford/CCRMA.
https://www.moforte.com/midi-2-0/
It might not be relevant for many on here, but the Orchestral Articulation profile will surely be gold for scoring!
And new types of controllers with lots of dimensions of control! If you have a MIDI 2.0 receiver that can respond to hundreds of different types of articulations, then you will certainly want a sender that can send those.
Note that for early pre-MPE type control, Keith McMillen did something called the kBow (2010) which was a roughly 5 dimensions for a Violin Controller (https://www.keithmcmillen.com/labs/k-bow/) . Roli's Airwave adds roughly 11 controls. My hope is that in addition to scoring, that the Orchestral Articulation Profile will pave the way for lots of new types of controllers.
Another thing to note, university programs all over the country have instrument design programs. Many of the students that I have talked with, have great ideas, but they are limited by MIDI 1. That being said, I see many students embracing MPE. The next generation of controllers is likely gestating in these programs. If you look at https://www.moforte.com/news you will find some of the presentations that I've given to student instrument creators students about MPE and MIDI 2. Some good practical info for instrument creators in these presentations.