What exactly is a "workflow"

jklovemusic

On a well designed app like GR2, LP, SAND, etc, we can basically reach 99% features in 1-2 taps. I never felt being forced to work in any specific order and feel completely free jumping around the app and the project.

If it means exchanging midi/audio between apps, we can also do it in any specific order. Where the flow is?

Gavinski

I'm not familiar with those apps, but they'll all have their own quirks and will lend themselves to some things better than others. A "workflow" is more about how easily you can do what you need, than in what order you do it. I often say, for example, that using IAA apps doesn't fit my workflow in AUM, and that's because they don't save state inside the AUM session, meaning that they're less convenient for me to use than AUv3 apps. Another thing I've gotten used to in AUM is the ease with which you can reorder fx signal chains. In many apps that process is more convoluted, so I would find it hard to get used to the change in workflow required if I switched to using such apps.

Gavinski

An analogy: when you cook at home, you have a natural flow, you know where your ingredients and tools are, you do things in a sequence that makes sense to you. If someone rearranges your kitchen, you can still cook, but it feels inefficient until you adjust. You may never like the new setup as much as the old, or you might get used to it and start to prefer it, but it will take time. Similarly, a musician or producer gets used to working in a certain way within an app or across multiple apps.

Michael_R_Grant

A workflow is your own personal way to make music in the most productive manner within a particular app. This will vary from person to person.

telecharge

Good answers from Gav.

FL Studio's slogan is "The fastest way from your brain to your speakers". To me, this is what a good workflow is, if the goal is to create.

Krupa

A workflow could be many things, from the technical ones already mentioned, to simply how you go about creating anything. For example it could be something like: gather inspiration whether visual or auditory, even conceptual, edit and sort that, jam out or sketch ideas, record, edit and finish…

I see it as basically a methodology that a creative uses to get from nowhere to somewhere. Some people will almost only think of it in technical terms, others in a more broad way…

dendy

Important detail - justt because for you some apps works perfectly (covering perfectly your method of music creation), that doesn't mean for somebody else isn't that app completely unusable ..

That's the "workflow", it's basically set of methods you use - they may be completely different for somebody else. Every one of us have different approach for creating music .. different priorities.. different needed features ..

We are different. So as workflows are. So "ideal" apps are.

Gavinski

@dendy said:
Important detail - justt because for you some apps works perfectly (covering perfectly your method of music creation), that doesn't mean for somebody else isn't that app completely unusable ..

That's the "workflow", it's basically set of methods you use - they may be completely different for somebody else. Every one of us have different approach for creating music .. different priorities.. different needed features ..

We are different. So as workflows are. So "ideal" apps are.

Absolutely!

sigma79

Iv split mine across Drambo screens.

Each screen will express what the screen is.

Drum ipad ( along with multiple views like 16 tracks on screen. Or one track view for step locks )

A synth ipad ( so synths full screen ) and then piano roll or tracks edit views.

A sample making ipad for random stuff, along with Koala to arrange audio. The ipad is also for Swam control.

Ipads also sequence other ipads ( midi generators etc )

Its cool. Its like having 3/4 of a 20 inch imac screen lol.

Its just I dont really like using it.

Sitting at a desk etc ( Debbie Downer )

EnergyCrush

@Krupa said:
A workflow could be many things, from the technical ones already mentioned, to simply how you go about creating anything. For example it could be something like: gather inspiration whether visual or auditory, even conceptual, edit and sort that, jam out or sketch ideas, record, edit and finish…

I see it as basically a methodology that a creative uses to get from nowhere to somewhere. Some people will almost only think of it in technical terms, others in a more broad way…

This feels closest, but I think it's worth mentioning a workflow isn't something everyone has or needs to make music. It's easy to imagine if you're playing bongos for fun, or experimenting on a groovebox, or just enjoying music for creative expression, there isn't necessarily anything that might be called a workflow, and that's totally fine.

Otherwise workflow is just process, but at least loosely repeatable in some form that allows you to progress to a goal you have. As called out, that might be looking for inspiration outside of music altogether, but having the goal and desire to make music. Sometimes you'll 'adjust' your workflow for things that are cumbersome or don't work, all in the name of making it easier to achieve goals in general for making music the way you want.

When wanting to produce something professionally though, having some defined processes in place to help you progress through and finish music are part of a workflow, a process that works for you and gets you to and through the goals you have for competing music.

At least, that's how I think of it.

Krupa

@EnergyCrush said:

@Krupa said:
A workflow could be many things, from the technical ones already mentioned, to simply how you go about creating anything. For example it could be something like: gather inspiration whether visual or auditory, even conceptual, edit and sort that, jam out or sketch ideas, record, edit and finish…

I see it as basically a methodology that a creative uses to get from nowhere to somewhere. Some people will almost only think of it in technical terms, others in a more broad way…

This feels closest, but I think it's worth mentioning a workflow isn't something everyone has or needs to make music. It's easy to imagine if you're playing bongos for fun, or experimenting on a groovebox, or just enjoying music for creative expression, there isn't necessarily anything that might be called a workflow, and that's totally fine.

Otherwise workflow is just process, but at least loosely repeatable in some form that allows you to progress to a goal you have. As called out, that might be looking for inspiration outside of music altogether, but having the goal and desire to make music. Sometimes you'll 'adjust' your workflow for things that are cumbersome or don't work, all in the name of making it easier to achieve goals in general for making music the way you want.

When wanting to produce something professionally though, having some defined processes in place to help you progress through and finish music are part of a workflow, a process that works for you and gets you to and through the goals you have for competing music.

At least, that's how I think of it.

I’m definitely not one for a rigid workflow, even professionally I tend to do things differently almost every time, even the project I’ve just delivered I made each piece in a slightly different order😅

ecou

• A reason to buy more gear
• A reason to procrastinate
• 😄

laopan

It's the limits you set on yourself， This is a way to prevent yourself from getting lost in too many options

jklovemusic

@Gavinski said:
I'm not familiar with those apps, but they'll all have their own quirks and will lend themselves to some things better than others. A "workflow" is more about how easily you can do what you need, than in what order you do it. I often say, for example, that using IAA apps doesn't fit my workflow in AUM, and that's because they don't save state inside the AUM session, meaning that they're less convenient for me to use than AUv3 apps. Another thing I've gotten used to in AUM is the ease with which you can reorder fx signal chains. In many apps that process is more convoluted, so I would find it hard to get used to the change in workflow required if I switched to using such apps.

Okay got it. Thanks!

jklovemusic

@dendy said:
Important detail - justt because for you some apps works perfectly (covering perfectly your method of music creation), that doesn't mean for somebody else isn't that app completely unusable ..

That's the "workflow", it's basically set of methods you use - they may be completely different for somebody else. Every one of us have different approach for creating music .. different priorities.. different needed features ..

We are different. So as workflows are. So "ideal" apps are.

I feel that. I need MPE badly and I use Velocity Keyboard and Geoshred a lot while most people don't haha

jklovemusic

@laopan said:
It's the limits you set on yourself， This is a way to prevent yourself from getting lost in too many options

basically agree except the sequencer/recorder which imo should be as flexible as possible, ideally like pen and paper

jklovemusic

I think now I understand workflow as individual's need AND preference

Same app different usage, different app same usage

MonkeyDrummer

My POV…
workflow != process

Your “process” is the most important thing to work on and develop.
“Workflow” is how you implement that process.

Developing a “workflow” before you really understand your own “process” is how I managed to ‘waste’ several years…

Your “process” should be platform, device, etc. independent. It’s reasonable to have different processes for different genres you work in etc.

Workflow to Process should/could be many-to-one relationship

The hard part is that the gear, platforms, etc. we use often dictate a “workflow” that we may adopt that are not conducive to your “process”

Just my thoughts…

jwmmakerofmusic

All I can really do is echo the sentiments said by others - our individual workflows are as unique as our fingerprints.

Last year, I bounced around between different DAW apps to see what else was out there besides Nanostudio 2, and my workflow was similar across all these apps. Of course some apps' quirks required me to adapt my workflow a bit more than others, with Cubasis requiring me to adapt my workflow the most.

In the end, my workflow in Cubasis 3 turned out to be the best one for my personal needs, but it was about a 1-month learning curve to adapt to doing more than just vocal recording and processing in it. (Of course when learning any new app, Ambient is about the easiest genre for me to produce for learning the ropes.)

GR2 definitely was one of the easiest apps I learned. I felt lost without a manual (which took Jim a couple weeks to release), but once I watched a couple of Doug's and Leo's videos about it, and I opened it, I said to myself "This is very similar to NS2's workflow". At least the DAW portion. I've yet to learn the live loops workflow, but soon enough I will pearn it. 😂

But yeah, my workflow will definitely be unique to me, @jklovemusic , just as yours will be unique to you mate.

telecharge

@Gavinski said:
I'm not familiar with those apps...

OK, I gotta ask. Are you really not familiar with Groove Rider 2/Loopy Pro or did you just not recognize the shorthand?

boomer

Another way of stating this is “one person’s meat is another person’s poison”

“ The fastest way from your brain to your speakers"
For me, that’s workflow right there.

“A well designed app like … LP…”
Everything I do is in midi with a linear DAW. and I want precise control over everything. Used to be NS2 was hands down the fastest way to the speakers for me. Everything was a tap or two away. I switched to logic when the writing on NS2’s wall got larger. After a year with LP I am still quite frustrated. There are times when getting what I want into the speakers requires heroic effort and pain because the flow is blocked by some very basic missing functionality.

@jwmmakerofmusic you say GR2 workflow is similar to NS2? I’m intrigued. Does that include the midi editing? That’s where every other iOS daw fails for me. Can you elaborate?

McD

I stopped producing “work” products in 2015… I have a “playflow” leveraging this forum, serendip-shitness and test drive several new app purchases every week month year.

jwmmakerofmusic

@boomer said:
@jwmmakerofmusic you say GR2 workflow is similar to NS2? I’m intrigued. Does that include the midi editing? That’s where every other iOS daw fails for me. Can you elaborate?

Absolutely. The MIDI editing utilises the handles for adjusting note length, velocity, note position, etc. One difference between NS2 and GR2 is...GR2 also has a probability slider for notes! Which is cool when working with more experimental and Ambient genres. It can even be nice for when producing a beat-based genre like Minimal Techno where you want the groove to keep evolving over time (such as making the closed hi-hats on 16th notes at 70% probability, which will yield a lot of variety in that groove). It also has its own drum module like Slate (although 16 pads per instance instead of 32 pads per instance).

Of course GR2 has its limitations which NS2 did not have. Such as audio being routed a certain way, the inability to use AUv3 effects on tracks (only on send busses and the master buss), etc. But sometimes the fixed routing gets the technical shit out of the way so you're better able to focus on creativity first and foremost.

If mixing down in GR2 is too limited, GR2 has stem export where you can import into your favourite DAW like Logic and Cubasis (or even a desktop DAW) and mix down further from there.

Gavinski

@telecharge said:

@Gavinski said:
I'm not familiar with those apps...

OK, I gotta ask. Are you really not familiar with Groove Rider 2/Loopy Pro or did you just not recognize the shorthand?

If course i know of them, I just mean I don't use them!

telecharge

@Gavinski said:

@telecharge said:

@Gavinski said:
I'm not familiar with those apps...

OK, I gotta ask. Are you really not familiar with Groove Rider 2/Loopy Pro or did you just not recognize the shorthand?

If course i know of them, I just mean I don't use them!

👍

dendy

My POV…
workflow != process

Your “process” is the most important thing to work on and develop.
“Workflow” is how you implement that process.

Developing a “workflow” before you really understand your own “process” is how I managed to ‘waste’ several years…

Your “process” should be platform, device, etc. independent. It’s reasonable to have different processes for different genres you work in etc.

Workflow to Process should/could be many-to-one relationship

The hard part is that the gear, platforms, etc. we use often dictate a “workflow” that we may adopt that are not conducive to your “process”

Just my thoughts…

Not just thoughts, literally almost precise definition :-)

dendy

@boomer said:
Another way of stating this is “one person’s meat is another person’s poison”
@jwmmakerofmusic you say GR2 workflow is similar to NS2? I’m intrigued. Does that include the midi editing?

well it is subjective.. for me not much ... For example piano roll constantly pisses me off in GR2 - it't like it tries to go in NS2 direction, there is a lot of similiarities, but there are subtle differences here and there which drives me crazy when i try edit notes .. There are also good parts - probabilities per notes, possibility to mute notes .. I would suggest you to try it - maybe it will work for you, you never know.

But of course that's just my personal opinion .. 10 people 10 different opinions ..

Krupa

@McD said:
I stopped producing “work” products in 2015… I have a “playflow” leveraging this forum, serendip-shitness and test drive several new app purchases every week month year.

❤️playflow❤️

Luxthor

Workflow is the most effective way for you as an artist to create music, regardless of the chain of processes involved.

It’s not about finding the most comprehensive tool available, it’s more about feeling and inspiration.

I like this thread, and I resonate with most of the posts written. 🤩

McD

This is how Google’s Gemini AI Chatbot defines the concept of Workflow:

Essentially, a workflow is a sequence of tasks that are completed in a specific order 
to achieve a particular goal.

Here's a breakdown of what that entails:
     Sequence of Tasks:
      * A workflow outlines the steps involved in a process, from beginning to end.
      * These steps are typically performed in a specific order, with each step 
         building upon the previous one.
    Goal-Oriented:
      * Every workflow is designed to achieve a specific outcome.
      * This could be anything from processing a customer order to completing a project.
    Efficiency and Standardization:
      * Workflows aim to improve the efficiency and consistency of processes.
      * By standardizing tasks, workflows help to reduce errors and ensure that things 
         are done correctly every time.
    Application:
      * Workflows are used in a wide range of settings, including businesses, organizations, and even personal tasks.
      * They can be simple or complex, depending on the nature of the process.
In simpler terms, a workflow is like a roadmap that guides you through a process, ensuring that you reach your destination in an organized and efficient manner.

Maybe we should aim for “artflow”.

jwmmakerofmusic

@McD said:
This is how Google’s Gemini AI Chatbot defines the concept of Workflow:

Essentially, a workflow is a sequence of tasks that are completed in a specific order 
to achieve a particular goal.
 
Here's a breakdown of what that entails:
     Sequence of Tasks:
      * A workflow outlines the steps involved in a process, from beginning to end.
      * These steps are typically performed in a specific order, with each step 
         building upon the previous one.
    Goal-Oriented:
      * Every workflow is designed to achieve a specific outcome.
      * This could be anything from processing a customer order to completing a project.
    Efficiency and Standardization:
      * Workflows aim to improve the efficiency and consistency of processes.
      * By standardizing tasks, workflows help to reduce errors and ensure that things 
         are done correctly every time.
    Application:
      * Workflows are used in a wide range of settings, including businesses, organizations, and even personal tasks.
      * They can be simple or complex, depending on the nature of the process.
In simpler terms, a workflow is like a roadmap that guides you through a process, ensuring that you reach your destination in an organized and efficient manner.

Maybe we should aim for “artflow”.

http://artflowstudio.com/

Nah, I'll stick with ProCreate. 😏