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LP 2.0: loading multiple instances of same AUV3

gardengarden
in Loopy Pro

I'm putting together a startup template in the standalone version. A 16x16 grid - 8 rows of 8 tracks, grouped and toggled exclusively for an Ableton-esque arrangement. AU instruments only, midi clips only.

@espiegel123 @analog_matt When I did this using 8 instances of the J6 app, I started getting little exclamation points indicating that they'd unloaded, with a tooltip saying something about the "loading assertion" or something like that.

It worked fine using the TAL juno emulator app.

Nothing dire or deal-breaking. Just letting you know.

Comments

  • ik2000ik2000

    Yeah, I attempted the same and got this… using default template and simply attempted to load 8 instances of J6.

  • ik2000ik2000

    Interesting, think it may be a limitation with J6 as when I loaded just 7 instances in AUM, I got the following error:

  • uncledaveuncledave
    edited July 2025

    @AnalogMatthew. Is this a limitation of AudioKit SynthOne J6?

    Edit: I just loaded 8 instances in AUM, and I'm able to play them, on iPad Air M2. The reported problem might just be due to a RAM limitation.

  • espiegel123espiegel123
    edited July 2025

    @garden said:
    I'm putting together a startup template in the standalone version. A 16x16 grid - 8 rows of 8 tracks, grouped and toggled exclusively for an Ableton-esque arrangement. AU instruments only, midi clips only.

    @espiegel123 @analog_matt When I did this using 8 instances of the J6 app, I started getting little exclamation points indicating that they'd unloaded, with a tooltip saying something about the "loading assertion" or something like that.

    It worked fine using the TAL juno emulator app.

    Nothing dire or deal-breaking. Just letting you know.

    Thanks for the heads up. This sounds like expected iOS auv3 behavior. All instances of an AU share the same memory pool. There is an unknown (and varying) size for that pool. Neither the plugin nor host has a way to check before a plugin loads whether there is sufficient space available. All instances crash if the allocation is exceeded.

    If a non-Apple host on the same device could load a significantly different number of instances of the same plugin that might point to an issue on the host side.

  • wimwim

    @espiegel123 said:
    If a non-Apple host on the same device could load a significantly different number of instances of the same plugin that might point to an issue on the host side.

    "non-Apple" host?

  • wimwim

    @garden - I don't know if it will help any, but when loading apps in a template, I set them to Idle until I need them. I haven't tried, but you might be able to load more instances of J6 if the rest are idle.

    Another thing I do for templates is to start them with instances of Streambyter (inst) as "place-holder" plugins. Then once I get going with a song I long-press in the mixer to replace them with the plugins I actually want to use. Streambyter is the most lightweight and transparent plugin I could think of for this role.

    The nice thing about this placeholder plugin approach is all routings and action targets are preserved. The downside is Streambyter doesn't expose the same AUv3 parameters as other plugins, so widgets that are specific to plugin controls obviously won't re-map as routings and more general actions would.

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @wim said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    If a non-Apple host on the same device could load a significantly different number of instances of the same plugin that might point to an issue on the host side.

    "non-Apple" host?

    GarageBand and Logic Pro have access to non-public APIs/system calls that allow for better memory management in some cases. So, they can sometimes handle memory more effectively than other hosts. Someone not long ago reported a conversation with Apple tech support about why he was able to load more plugins into Logic than he can in AUM and Loopy Pro after and was told that Logic had access to calls that made that possible. I cannot vouch for the accuracy of that statement.

  • wimwim

    @espiegel123 said:

    @wim said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    If a non-Apple host on the same device could load a significantly different number of instances of the same plugin that might point to an issue on the host side.

    "non-Apple" host?

    GarageBand and Logic Pro have access to non-public APIs/system calls that allow for better memory management in some cases. So, they can sometimes handle memory more effectively than other hosts. Someone not long ago reported a conversation with Apple tech support about why he was able to load more plugins into Logic than he can in AUM and Loopy Pro after and was told that Logic had access to calls that made that possible. I cannot vouch for the accuracy of that statement.

    Ahh. I understand now. Thanks.

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @wim said:

    @espiegel123 said:

    @wim said:

    @espiegel123 said:
    If a non-Apple host on the same device could load a significantly different number of instances of the same plugin that might point to an issue on the host side.

    "non-Apple" host?

    GarageBand and Logic Pro have access to non-public APIs/system calls that allow for better memory management in some cases. So, they can sometimes handle memory more effectively than other hosts. Someone not long ago reported a conversation with Apple tech support about why he was able to load more plugins into Logic than he can in AUM and Loopy Pro after and was told that Logic had access to calls that made that possible. I cannot vouch for the accuracy of that statement.

    Ahh. I understand now. Thanks.

    It is annoying that Apple does this from time to time. Music apps are such a small part of the ecosystem that I don’t think it is intentionally anti-competitive. I think it is more a matter of the in-house developers being able to get access to undocumented stuff by having access to the system programmers…and the system programmers not having the time to make, test and publish APIs for a niche market. GarageBand had some clever multitasking, parallel processing early on as it was needed to get GarageBand working. But there weren’t proper APIs.

  • gardengarden

    @wim said:
    @garden - I don't know if it will help any, but when loading apps in a template, I set them to Idle until I need them. I haven't tried, but you might be able to load more instances of J6 if the rest are idle.

    Another thing I do for templates is to start them with instances of Streambyter (inst) as "place-holder" plugins. Then once I get going with a song I long-press in the mixer to replace them with the plugins I actually want to use. Streambyter is the most lightweight and transparent plugin I could think of for this role.

    The nice thing about this placeholder plugin approach is all routings and action targets are preserved. The downside is Streambyter doesn't expose the same AUv3 parameters as other plugins, so widgets that are specific to plugin controls obviously won't re-map as routings and more general actions would.

    Aha. Yes, I was basically setting J6 as a placeholder anyway. Using something super lightweight like streambyter makes much more sense.

    I wasn't aware of "idle." I'll look into that, thanks.

  • wimwim

    @garden said:

    @wim said:
    @garden - I don't know if it will help any, but when loading apps in a template, I set them to Idle until I need them. I haven't tried, but you might be able to load more instances of J6 if the rest are idle.

    Another thing I do for templates is to start them with instances of Streambyter (inst) as "place-holder" plugins. Then once I get going with a song I long-press in the mixer to replace them with the plugins I actually want to use. Streambyter is the most lightweight and transparent plugin I could think of for this role.

    The nice thing about this placeholder plugin approach is all routings and action targets are preserved. The downside is Streambyter doesn't expose the same AUv3 parameters as other plugins, so widgets that are specific to plugin controls obviously won't re-map as routings and more general actions would.

    Aha. Yes, I was basically setting J6 as a placeholder anyway. Using something super lightweight like streambyter makes much more sense.

    I wasn't aware of "idle." I'll look into that, thanks.

    When idled, practically all of the overhead of plugins are released. They generally auto-idle when muted, but there might be some cases where they're left active.

    The downside of setting a template up with idled plugins is continual forgetting to re-enable them. 🙄
    In the case of Streambyter, it probably makes little difference.

    btw: https://roadmap.loopypro.com/feature-requests/p/dummy-placeholder-plugin-for-routing-templates

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