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What equipment would I need to achieve this setup?

plasockiplasocki
edited November 2014 in General App Discussion

I was wondering if anyone could advise me on what hardware/software I would need to create the following setup. (I apologise in advance for my lack of knowledge).

I have an eigenharp which I want to use to control synths on my ipad or on a macmini. If I do use ipad, however, I will still need to use a computer in order for the eigenharp to work. I would also like to apply software-based effects to my eigenharp's sound and be able to change them quickly and easily, so I was thinking of buying an expression pedal. Lastly, I was hoping to use the same expression pedal(s) with my sax. My aim is to be able to have all these options available for live improvised performance.

From countless hours of mostly just confusion-causing internet searches, all I can gather about what I need is the following:

  • a midi interface to connect computer and ipad
  • a cable from computer to the interface (usb to midi?)
  • a cable from interface to ipad (midi to lightning / midi to usb + camera connection kit)
  • expression pedals (bluetooth might be the best option here, such as those offered here: http://airturn.com/bluetooth-pedals)
  • a mic for my sax (as i only have one instrument to mic and it's mostly for performance, a dynamic usb mic perhaps would be best, such as this one: www.rodemic.com/microphones/podcaster)
  • a cable from mic to ipad/computer to access effects (would it be better to plug this into an interface first though?)
  • a cable to output the audio from ipad/macmini to the pa system (I am finding it hard to find out how best I can do this)

Any advice or even corrections regarding this setup and what I need, including any specific product recommendations, would be very gratefully received. Is all of this even possible?

I have read about the iconnect products on this forum, but I am not sure which one would be best for what I would like to do. If I got the iconnect audio, can/should I plug the mic into that? And would that also give me the option of using midi/usb pedals instead of bluetooth (bearing in mind I would need both my ipad and computer connected at all times).

Comments

  • plasockiplasocki

    I just had a thought - rather than trying to connect the mic to the ipad through the lighting connector or usb, how would plugging into the headphone socket sound?

    Can I have audio and/or midi going in through the headphone, lightning, and bluetooth simultaneously? Or would this slow down my ipad? In which case, would it be better to offload some of the inputs to the computer/interface?

  • dwarmandwarman

    You can treat the iPad as an outboard device using one of the iConnectMIDI products, the 2+ or 4+. These boxes will route both digital stereo audio and MIDI between the Mibi and iPad both ways, and also keep the iPad charged (the iConnectMIDI2+ requires an optional extra PSU for this, which comes with the 4+).

  • WillWill

    I'd consider something like:

    1. iConnectMIDI 2 or 4 as suggested by @dwarman which will provide you MIDI and Audio back and forth between the ipad and the mac mini. You can then do stuff like send the midi from your eigenharp to your mac and from there to your ipad via the iconnect. You could also control multiple soft synths on either platform. The iconnect will also send the audio to and/or from your ipad. That way you can process your ipad synths with mac effects or vice versa.
    2. A USB audio interface for your mac - this will allow you to hook up a mic from your sax and be used for final output. The iConnects will transfer digital audio back and forth but you still need a way to convert analog audio (like your sax microphone) to digital and vice versa for the end of it all (converting the mic, the eigenharp and the ipad audio to something your speakers will play). There are a lot of options here—just find one that fits the budget.
    3. A behringer FCB-1010 MIDI foot controller (or similar) to turn effects on and off. It has two expression pedals built in for controlling continuous parameters/expression. I think you can add another to it via a jack on the back if you'd like three. It can also send program change messages so that when performing live you can hands free change the sounds on your soft synths.

    This is by nature complicated to set up—I don't think there's really a way around that. You'll get there!

  • WillWill

    Well, there may be simpler solutions depending on how much control you want. One way would be to get a simple audio+midi interface for both your mac and your ipad. These can be pretty cheap (lots in the ~$100 range).

    Plug them both in and use a midi cable from your mac to your ipad. send the audio from your ipad to the inputs on your mac's interface. Plug a foot controller like the FCB into your mac.

    Or, one simpler: Buy a usb audio/midi interface for your Mac. Then, use Apollo MIDI Over Bluetooth app to send MIDI from your mac to your ipad wirelessly. Then, just plug the ipad's headphone socket into an audio interface on your mac. If you'd like foot control, you can use a bluetooth pedal like the airturn but I don't know of any that allow for expression inputs (not saying there aren't any, I just don't know them). The headphone out will not sound quite as good as a proper interface but it works just fine if you mind the gain staging a bit. You could start with this simple setup and then look for specific devices to enhance it once you get going with using it instead of trying to build a big complex system from the start.

    There's a great thread here (sticky, up top) about interfaces.

  • MartygrasMartygras

    Hey Plasoki, I play an Akai EWI so I run into the same hardware decisions that you do. Since the EWI is considered a USB2 class compliant device I can use "Apple's Camera Connection Kit" to hook the EWI up directly to the iPad. To do something like you are I use an Akai EIE interface (4 mic pre's, USB hub, meters, inserts) it is a versatile interface and can be used for a multitude of setups. I'll mic up my flutes and recorders and some Roland Handsonic drums. I never stay with one setup for very long though. BTW Thor responds to aftertouch nicely when used with wind controllers.

  • mrufino1mrufino1

    The ik blueboard is a bluetooth foot switch with expression pedal inputs. I haven't used it but I know it does that. I've seen them for about $60-$70 on eBay now.

  • plasockiplasocki
    edited November 2014

    Thank you very much for the advice - very helpful indeed.

    I have had another look at pedals as I didn't realise the airturn didn't include expression. Both the ik blueboard and the behringer don't seem to have received the most favourable reviews. An alternative I found was the Softstep - http://www.keithmcmillen.com/softstep/tour. Has anyone had any experience with it?

    With regards to interfaces, I read the entirity of the thread mentioned and had a look at the akai eie interface that was suggested. The eie is a little larger than I hoped for as I would like the setup to be as portable as possible. From what I can gather, for audio interface alone, the focus rite 2i2 seems to be the best option. And for audio+midi, the Roland duo capture ex.

    However, will the forthcoming iconnect audio be able to connect eigenharp (though a computer), ipad, mic, and the aforementioned midi pedal, as well as allow me to output audio? I tried looking on the website, but couldn't figure out whether this would work.

    Finally, I mentioned a usb microphone before because I was thinking this could help simplify things a little (if I connected this directly to my mac or ipad rather than through an interface). Is this feasible? Or are microphones that connect through xlr preferable?

  • WillWill

    I've not used a softstep but they sure look nice. People seem to love them. I get the impression they're a little trickier to (learn to?) control than your standard expression pedal like a wah wah. Easier to tremolo and rhythmic stuff but a little harder to do straight 0-127 or 30-65.

    I'm about the biggest non believer in the world when it comes to Behringer gear, burned repeatedly as I've been, but the FCB-1010 is a solid, if considerably less featured, piece of gear for about 1/2 the price. A bit of a pain to program but for most modern apps, the defaults work just fine.

    Beyond more 2014 style control options, the SoftStep or one of its siblings will allow you to skip a MIDI interface entirely—you can simply plug it into your mac/ipad via USB cable and get on with it. And then, yes, something like the Focusrite and a cheap powered usb would be all you need (plus audio I/O for your mac if you want bidirectional quality to be highest)

    I've never used a usb mic. Actually sounds like more trouble to me in a set up like this but I'm old and fearful.

  • dwarmandwarman

    The problem with USB audio is that the iPad will only recognize one interface. So an XLR with good pres might preserve options, depending on your needs.

    It looks like the iCA4+ has 4 XLR combo ins, 4 TRS balanced audio outs, 1 pair DIN MIDI port, and support for a USB hub for additional USB MIDI controllers, plus (I'm guessing) the same audio pass-thru between the devices as iCM4+. It might also be useable without a PC/Mac.

  • plasockiplasocki

    Thanks again for the responses.

    Having had another look at the specs of the iconnect and other products, I think I may have been getting things mixed up. I had assumed I needed to connect my computer and/or my ipad to the interface using midi cables. But it appears that this is done through usb-a to usb-b for the computer, and lighting connector to usb-b for the ipad. Is this the same for other interfaces? I guess those not specifically designed for ios use would use a different cable to connect to ipad - is that right?

    I had also thought the softstep pedal board would need a midi cable, but, as mentioned above, it's usb too. So the midi inputs on these interfaces would just be for additional midi controllers then? The thing is I don't have any other midi controllers that I am intending to use aside from the eigenharp, which has to go through the computer anyway.

    So it seems like the iconnect audio might be the best option as it will allow me to connect my eigenharp through the usb-b, the softstep pedalboard through usb, and a mic for my sax through xlr. Then i can output the audio through trs (trs to what exactly?).
    Am I right in thinking the other audio+midi interfaces don't have the the option of adding additional usb controllers such as the softstep pedal? Reading the Roland duo capture ex product description suggested that this is not possible, but I may be wrong.

    My only hesitation is that I don't think i need 4 inputs and outputs, and I guess that this makes the iconnect audio a little less portable (or at least a bit larger than other options), as well as more pricey. I also wonder to what extent the audio pass thru will be of benefit to me because I was intending to primarily use apps on my ipad rather than computer software. But on the other hand, I presume if it didn't have this feature, I would need to plug the pedal board into the computer rather than the interface.

    Again, sorry for my ignorance. I really want to be able to get my head round it all!

  • WillWill

    You plug your ipad into a USB hub (via the Camera Connection Kit) and then you can plug whatever/however many iPad compatible USB devices into it. Would work fine with something like softstep->hub, duo capture->hub, hub->camera connection kit>iPad.

    What you can't do with that setup is also plug you computer into the same hub via USB. With the hub, you also need a usb->5 din midi interface for your computer and then a way to plug that 5-din into your ipad—either through an audio interface that supports 5 din MIDI (like the Akai EIE, Alesis IO4...) or a separate usb->midi interface connected to your hub. This is precisely the selling point of the iConnectMIDI interface: it allows you to plug both your computer and your iPad into that single device and route MIDI and Audio however you like between the two. The catch is that you also need to add an audio interface in order to hear the audio portion.

  • plasockiplasocki
    edited November 2014

    Ah I see. That definitely makes things clearer, thanks a lot.

    As the iconnectaudio appears to allow me to output audio too, I think I will wait for that. Then at least it covers everything I need in one box!

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