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Spinoff thread from “Fight/Flight (An Anti-Ice Rap Track)”
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I’m glad the thread split, and sorry for contributing to the headache. I didn’t realize Other was hidden from the main feed. That really does make outcries of moving the thread seem like an effort to censor the message. While I strongly oppose the views against the song, I don’t think I’d have been as likely to jump in if it weren’t for a user trying to discredit the message and song in general. And I still think it’s completely moronic to try to argue that societal or political themes have no place in music here. Especially when the most threatening thing about the song is pointing out brutality from authority is immoral and those committing it should be held accountable. That’s what I find most concerning - if you fear accountability that means you have something to be held accountable for.
I’d rather not waste much more energy on the thread or topic, but I guess that’s my $.02 and trying to sort my thoughts on the matter.
Be sure to "favorite" the thread if you want to follow it. That way you'll get notifications when posts are added.
I'm so sick at heart by everything I see about the Renee Good shooting ... on every side of the issue. I can't even bring myself to talk about it. A human being died a completely avoidable death, and all people can do is treat it like a political football.
It truly is a political Rorschach test ... where the ink is blood. I can't stand it.
Agreed on the entire issue around deportation and immigration in America being emotionally draining. Especially when you’re struggling to keep afloat amongst the sea of other societal issues. It can be difficult for me to care about the issue at all when I’m not living it and overwhelmed by other facets of life. Wearing my heart on my sleeve here: maybe I feel the need to chime in over some weird guilt on being pretty far removed from the issue and feeling powerless to do much of anything about anything.
You can't both-sides a murder.
It is a Rorschach test, anyone who claims her death was justified is a fascist. There is no nuance to be had here. The Don't Tread On Me crowd are more than happy to tread on everyone else, and celebrate masked fascist goons executing people in broad daylight.
I still don’t think any user in particular was wrongly singled out in the other thread. Saying we wish fascists weren’t as prominent on forums and one person being assumed by the majority as being singled says something about that user.
I´d like to circle back to the original QUESTION which started the discussion...if we are trying to threat federal agents.
As this picture is based on a photo which is also linked in the youtube description and we kept the banner in to keep it closer to the original we want to distance us from stating any "threats". We use art to stand for human rights, no matter the medium.
If anyone wants to make a song AGAINST human rights they sure can. Even if it´s a fascist song (which basically means AGAINST human rights), there are lids for every kind of pot, suit yourself. But I think as long as we are all living in democracies we should check the wiki entry every now and then and cross check with "other" forms of government and what comes along with them, maybe without recognising their mechanics.
As a german citizen I´d like to add to this just as food for thought, nothing else: From a perspective of a country which went through way too similar struggles and a genocide outcome I´d like to inform, that the SS was suddenly and very quickly a federal agency as well tho it started as the Führers personal "bodyguard elite" before ´33.
Holding someone or an agency and their agents who act against human rights to account can also look like the "Nuremberg Processes", no vigilant violence needed, just integrity and an uncompromised body of law.
I understand it´s a pill hard to swallow but we´re looking over there and are wondering if the US as the "country of freedom" really wants to go through the same ...ugh... Fatherland pain and we are deeply worried.
My parents were traumatized in their childhoods in ways you cannot grasp. And my grandmother once told me in her clear moments that she is happy she got dementia so she cannot remember everything. Our whole country wasn´t just traumatized by this once but twice. The same mechanics of control and power were applied to eastern germany right after the war ended. I was four years old when the wall fell but still had a Stasi file, because my parents refused to leave the church.
Democracy is a blessing, so is freedom of speech and religious freedom and the freedom to love, no matter the gender.
If the system to integrate immigrants isn´t working, it´s time to change the system instead of choosing violence and deportation (which is also way more expensive than building better social system structures).
Reframed actions of homeland security were the beginnings of fascism, they always are and always will be.
Borders mean nothing, they are a man (the feminist in me chuckles slightly) made illusion. I was made by people who were children of immigrants, who were children of war refugees who were children of...
I don´t even know how I am alive, considering the circumstances, it´s a miracle.
Again: I´m super thankful for any thoughts and kind conversations which arise around what we created. This is what art is for.
From all the camera angles, you can see this was a murder.
The ICE gang in my opinion is slowly turning into a modern gestapo / nkvd, but thankfully people in the USA are defending their rights. Heck, even a sheriff and a mayor took strong public statements against ICE which is kind of unexpected.
All political aspects aside, this was a horrendous use of lethal force no matter what angle you look at it from (and I have looked at all available).
If any police officer in the country employed their weapon in this manner, even against a violent criminal, that officer would be immediately suspended pending investigation on the assumption that the use of force may not have been justified. This isn't even close to that. It's so clearly an over use of a firearm as to unquestionably require a thorough investigation.
As someone struggling in America through all this it’s pretty scary. Knowing that those outside looking in see only red flags surrounding my fears doesn’t bring much reassurance. The whole thing makes me feel pretty trapped in a country I’ve never been proud of and would love to escape from. Anyone hiring mathematicians/engineers in another country to get me out? lol
Didn’t realize how relevant You Don’t Know What Love Is by White Stripes.
“ I can see your man can't help but win
Any problems that may arise
But in his mind there can be no sin
If you never criticize
You just keep on repeating
All those empty I love you's
Until you say you deserve better
I'm gonna lay right into you
Yeah, you don't know what love is
You just do as you're told
Just as a child at ten might act
But you're far too old
You're not hopeless or helpless
And I hate to sound cold
But you don't know what love is
You just do as you’re told”
Not sure if that’s as relevant to this as it feels, and I’m sure I can still learn a thing or two about love even from those I disagree with.
I feel ya. The AFD (a german party under investigation for fascist mentality) is rising over here tho to the flood of refugees due to the Ukraine war. There is a woman killed every 8 days, 90% of these femicides are committed by male close persons, most cases by the german husband. But the media repots about immigrant crimes with a higher frequency and emotionality in tone and just doing some research is enough to find out how those specific media publishers are all linked financially to the right wing...it´s horrendous. Seeing how deep the pattern of control reaches should be communicated, in all ways. If education and teaching kids isn´t enough anymore to build socially and politically councious beings we need to not only be alert but act. I am super anxious about going to demonstrations but I can use my voice and music to speak out for my values...otherwise I would just numb my rage and sadness. Engineers of all kinds are still massively overpaid in germany. And we have a new kind of VISA now for specialists. So yeah, you´ve still got choices. But as I rapped in my lil part of the song: "The white brain rot is crossing borders" here already, too. Bottom line it´s fear which drives fascism. So all we can do is be brave and stand up.
So much conscious awareness about systemic patriarchy right here in this, don´t know if that was intended, but I love it.
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I’m pretty sure plenty of us would love to hear such political tracks, in all kinds of different genres posted under "Creations & Collaborations" 😃🙏
Cinematic and bombastic trailer music that promotes the invasion of Greenland! 🥰
Happy-go-lucky EDM tracks about Jeff & Donny partying together with underage girls! 🤩
Christian Instrumental Nationalist Jazz Music: ”Christ is Swing” 😇
Edgy Dark Trap Beats featuring acapellas from MAGA-wrappers like Tom Wackdonald & Fellatio Blow! 😍
(Preferably using the N-word (hard R), several times, since others caught on camera using this awful word to children became filthy rich via GoFundMe) 🤭
Or what about self-reflective music regarding idealogical contradictions? 🥳👍
For such a project the following would be a very good starting point:
Not talked about enough with regards to Renee Good’s murder is that ICE prevented medical care from reaching her. Whether or not it could have saved her life, it is hard to contemplate the callousness that would lead those agents to prevent her from receiving medical attention.
Being the person you're referring to as "the majority", as I was the only one that made a post about that, I'll respectfully disagree and try to clarify. First, there was only one person voicing opposition to the song in the thread so it's difficult for me to imagine that the comment was simply about some vague group of people. Second, my comment was about labeling anyone a fascist (or a libtard, or a communist, or woke, or whatever), whether vaguely or specifically. Third, it came immediately after the generous host of this forum specifically asked for respect, and keeping to the subject or starting a thread here (which Michael then had to take the time out to do himself).
Let me also be clear that I in no way wanted to make that post. I would have much, much preferred to just leave it be. I was trying to head off a) further name-calling direct or indirect, b) anyone needing to defend themselves from perceiving to be labeled a fascist, and c) continued off-topic discussion.
omg. I had not heard that. If true, that is not only immoral, but incredibly illegal. Dear lord, I hope that is inaccurate.
Yeah a video I saw showed a man on scene pleading to check a pulse, is told no, claims to be a physician, and is told “I don’t care” by an agent.
https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000010631041/minneapolis-ice-shooting-video.html
It’s towards the end. Not saying I agree with everything in the assessment, but shooting someone point blank and denying medical care is inhumane. Is it actually illegal though to deny the medical attention, or are ICE agents above that kind of law? That’s not rhetorical because ICE is not here to protect and serve Americans but to safeguard America’s borders (including eliminating Americans I guess). I really don’t know if the ICE priority is to deescalate a situation non lethally or to eliminate a perceived threat with any means necessary. I really hope it’s not the latter.
ICE mission statement:
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There’s nothing in there about protecting or valuing individual life. They do mention public safety, but are law enforcements agents considered “the public” when wearing a badge? Because shooting her in the face and denying medical attention doesn’t seem to be about keeping the public safe. Again, these questions are legitimate, and maybe some ICE supporters can shed light on “Are ICE agents legally allowed to deny medical attention in the name of securing borders?”, “are active duty law officers part of the public” and I guess we’ll go the Animal Farm route and ask “are all Americans are the public, but ICE agents are more the public than others?”
Is it true they then left the scene of the incident? I think that is illegal also.
Now is absolutely the time for protest. Everyone in America who can should be in the streets. It might be what saves your country from this disgusting episode. I deeply believe that Trump supporters are on the wrong side of history, and time will show. This has nothing to do with political party lines. It’s about basic human decency and respect.
It feels pretty dangerous to go to protests these days. It’s tough when protesting feels like the right response but it’s tougher to imagine going and it ending with my kid not having a dad anymore if violence erupts.
Again a legitimate question, with leaving the scene of the crime being illegal - is it, or are ICE agents enforcing their laws priority over things like denying medical help and leaving the scene of a crime? I don’t think that’s ok, but I don’t know if there’s some protection policy in place.
Impeding a law enforcement official in the exercise of their duties is illegal. Intentionally endangering a law enforcement official illegal. One could argue that operating a vehicle in the direction of a law enforcement agent could constitute a threat. While I haven't read enough to say so more than speculatively, I believe the people in the car may have been harassing and trying to impede ICE agents with their vehicle earlier in the day. Apologies if I have that wrong.
HOWEVER, to me it's crystal clear from every angle that this was at best a totally avoidable use of lethal force. The ICE officers were either poorly trained or downright malicious. They shouldn't have let this happen. It even can feel like the shooter almost wanted it to happen. But maybe that's unfair and he just reacted out of a combination of poor training, adrenalin rush, and possibly perceived ongoing threat. Doesn't look like that to me as he was out of the trajectory of the car at that point, but I wasn't in the situation.
Anyway, I don't care what anyone thinks of what ICE is tasked to do. This was a a tragedy and DHS should be pulling out all the stops to get to the truth and try to stop the obvious violent spiral, rather than circling the wagons and fanning the flames. It's absurd!
A reset is badly needed if DHS wants to continue to enforce immigration law. Law enforcement should be controlled, fair, and as safe as possible. I passionately hope no-one wants this chaos no matter where they stand regarding illegal immigration.
Colleagues of the officer were pictured removing things (such as his computer) from the officer's home.
Greg Bovino, border control chief, said "hats off to that officer" for shooting Goode on Sean Hannity's program. Hannity played up an allegation that Goode and her wife had taunted or laughed at the officers. I guess he forgot about his free-speech absolutism. Even if the taunting allegation were true, it would not be a justification for killing someone.
ICE officers have been videotaped countless times violating the law by forcing entry without the required judicial warrants.
Well hopefully this acts as a flashpoint and Americans find a way to stand up against Trump and his nasty militia.
Once you've reached the "summary execution of citizens in the streets" stage, the term "fascist" is not a random insult, but an accurate description of the ideology at play.
Also, as well as ICE agents denying medical care, the agent who shot Renee Good can be heard saying "fucking bitch" after firing the shots, in the video taken from his own cell phone.
Even Trump has given up the pretence that the agent's life was in danger, and is now claiming that Good was "disrespectful". Americans are proud of their supposed "inalienable rights", but if an agent of the state can murder someone in the streets with impunity for mere disrespect, you don't have "inalienable rights", you are living in a fascist state, and that is not hyperbole.
And surely it goes without saying by now that MAGA does not care at all for the rule of law. All that counts is loyalty to Trump.
Trump's supporters are free to storm the Capitol or execute people in the streets, and Trump's enemies will be selectively prosecuted for made-up crimes.
100%. And just to reiterate: profanity, insults and rude gestures are constitutionally protected speech. They're not offenses, much less a justification for murder. See 18 U.S.C. § 111. In fact, the DHS has just sent out emails to ICE officers reminding them of this fact!
It makes me wonder what will eventually cause the many Trump voters to finally turn away from him? They stuck by him when he said you can just grab women between their legs and get away with it, they stuck by him through the Epstein underage girls sex trafficing, they stuck by him when he condoned the Jan 6 violence and pardoned the offenders, they stuck by him when his nasty little militia so obviously shot someone who did not need to be killed, etc. etc. etc. It goes on and on! At what point do they scratch their heads and say, “You know what. I’m not sure about this guy leading our nation…”
It’s actually insane.
It's tribalism, cognitive dissonance etc. Trump supporters are in so deep at this point and it's hard for them to admit they're wrong. That's one aspect.
Another is that some don't actually like or respect him, but think he's useful, a means to an end.
People are angry, they want simple narratives that explain their pain and give them someone to blame. In many cases they want these so badly that they'll even support leaders who actually make things worse for them. Things have become worse for the average person in the west over recent decades, as we all know. The real problem is unfair distribution of wealth, but the wealthy want to cling on to that wealth. So they, through the far right media, have cast other people as the cause of the problem, mainly immigrants. Same old scenario that brought about the rise of facism in Germany. Divide and conquer the workers. I'd expect more wars on the horizon and more invasions of places like Venezuela, as distraction tactics, too.
I don't think that any amount of trying to guilt-trip Trump supporters into not supporting him is going to work. I think it'll just have to get to the point where many people in the society are so financially or psychologically broken that the pain caused by not admitting they were wrong outweighs the pain caused by admitting they were wrong. The US is in danger of becoming the enemy of the free world. The people will want rid of this guy and his regime at some point but I think it might, sadly, take a while. And yes, Trump supporters will, I think, find themselves on the wrong side of history.
She tried to run over a Federal agent. If you are not up to speed on the reality of what happened there, seek out better sources and stop listening to anyone who says she played no part in what happened. She was not some innocent bystander.
That's a very strange thing to assert, considering it is the Marxist and Communist agitators on the ground in Minneapolis who are engaging in goading, interfering with and attacking Federal agents.
https://www.cpusa.org/article/twin-cities-demands-ice-leave-their-city/
Interfering with Federal law enforcement is, of course, illegal. And if a person attacks a Federal agent, there's a really good chance they are going to be killed. And you know what? That's not "evidence of fascism". It has been illegal to forcibly interfere with (or assault/resist) federal law enforcement officers in the United States for over 115 years. Do your own research.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQP9RGAYfBfjhzH4Wl9UHh5za61xezZm4akjaW_jljTJw&s=10
@NeuM : AGAIN agree 100%