Question about starting a clip playing 4 bars after another and/or after transport starts

danm

Hi,
I've been reading the following wiki:
https://wiki.loopypro.com/Actions_Tips

in order to figure out the best way to do the following, and now I'm wondering thoughts on the best way...Should be simple, but...

Have a Play Group with 2 audio clips set to play independently.
With the transport stopped, if I have clip 1 "on" and clip 2 "off" and start the transport, clip 1 starts to play with the transport, and I'd like clip 2 to start playing 4 bars after I hit the transport

Extra for experts:
Regardless of either clip being on or off, once I start the transport, then after 4 bars I'd like clip 2 to start playing (and if it's already playing, then the action is ignored)

Was trying with Follow Actions (which I prefer to avoid at all costs if possible) but couldn't get it working, so asking for help now.

I should know how to do this by now!

Thanks

espiegel123

This action sequence will do it. It assumes the clock is stopped

• Play clip 1 (turn on the option, Start Clock if paused)
• (after last with delay 4 bars), play clip 2

The play action has an option to retrigger or ignore if the clip is already playing.

danm

Thanks...This much I understand...It's where exactly to add the actions that I'd like to understand, can you share that please

danm

I don't want to add a widget to do this (as I'm out of real estate on the main page), so was trying to add this to something that already exists on the page, such as one of the existing clips or the "play" button...Thanks

espiegel123

@danm said:
I don't want to add a widget to do this (as I'm out of real estate on the main page), so was trying to add this to something that already exists on the page, such as one of the existing clips or the "play" button...Thanks

Adding something like this doesn’t seem like it makes sense as a clip follow action.

If you always want this to happen when the clock starts, you could add it as a start clock follow action.

danm

Okay, add actions where? Can you describe specifically and/or provide a screenshot please

espiegel123

@danm said:
Okay, add actions where? Can you describe specifically and/or provide a screenshot please

The start clock follow action is a project-wide follow action.

danm

For those following along, project-wide follow actions are found by clicking on the hamburger menu in the upper right, then selecting 'Control Settings', then scroll to the bottom and it is nestled between project profiles and global profiles

espiegel123

They are also available by choosing Follow Actions in the Clip Settings panel.

danm

Thank you!

danm

@espiegel123 said:
This action sequence will do it. It assumes the clock is stopped

• Play clip 1 (turn on the option, Start Clock if paused)
• (after last with delay 4 bars), play clip 2

The play action has an option to retrigger or ignore if the clip is already playing.

@espiegel123, I want clip 2 to start "off: regardless of the state of things when I hit play, so I added one action to your action list above in a 'start clock' project wide follow action, so I have:
Stop Clip 2
Play Clip 1 (tried with last and after last)
Play Clip 2 (after last w/ delay 4 bars)

But this issue now arose...Clip 2 has audio right at the start of it's clip and I'm hearing that initial sound which occurs while Clip 2 appears to queue itself up to stop (Clip 1 is 1 bar, Clip 2 is 12 bars)

I've tried changing the quantization to custom and tried changing the 2nd action to withlast and afterlast, still hearing that initial bit of sound from Clip 2 before it stops...Thoughts?

espiegel123

@danm : it sounds like you should have a stop clock follow action to stop clip 2 when the clock stops.

danm

Thanks @espiegel123, can you elaborate on why it's not possible the way I tried to do it originally.
Trying to understand a bit more deeply how state change is working wrt the clips and why having a "Stop Clip 2" as the first action of the 3 does not work (as I originally tried) and how exactly the internals are reacting differently when doing it my original way vs having the clip 2 Off/Stopped at the time that I hit the transport play button (ie: your solution)...Thanks

espiegel123

@danm said:
Thanks @espiegel123, can you elaborate on why it's not possible the way I tried to do it originally.
Trying to understand a bit more deeply how state change is working wrt the clips and why having a "Stop Clip 2" as the first action of the 3 does not work (as I originally tried) and how exactly the internals are reacting differently when doing it my original way vs having the clip 2 Off/Stopped at the time that I hit the transport play button (ie: your solution)...Thanks

@danm : the start clock action is executed when the clock starts. If your clip is set to play, it may take an instant to stop it.

I don’t understand the rest of your question.

danm

@espiegel123, my question is getting to whether there is a more general understanding of how things work that can be learned from this resolution or not. I think the more people understand why things are happening the way they are and how that may or may not be related to design approaches in LP, the less questions you'll get moving forward.

So, really just trying to understand all I can (and help others to do so too) so we rely on you less and can answer more for ourselves.

For example, it seems like there have been numerous cases where you have pointed out (when providing solutions to problems asked in this forum) that someone may need to add a bit of a delay to an action because if it were to happen right at the same time as something else, then it would indeed happen immed and not wait until the next time around the quantization period, as desired...yet in this case, you're saying that the start clock action may take some time to stop, even if set to stop immediately, which seems like the opposite case.

Might you be able to provide some insight into these two categories of behavior and if there is a generalized design understanding we can learn about which things will indeed happen immediately (and thus require a slight delay if we want them not to do so) and which things (like this case) don't happen immediately.

Or are these differences each just based on quirks of the system and not something that is part of a broader design

espiegel123

@danm : a follow action is executed in response to the action it follows. Start clock follow actions are executed in response to the clock having started. They are executed very soon after. In this case you have a clip that is set to play WHEN the clock starts. Very shortly after it starts playing, you tell it to stop. On my phone, the result is just a click -- but depending on the device and context it might be take slightly longer to stop the playing clip.

If you need something to be in a certain state at the time that the clock starts (not in response to its starting), you should set that up prior to starting the clock. There are many ways you could do that. I, personally, would not be using a start clock follow action for this. I would set up a widget that puts things in to the desired state then starts the clock and performs the actions that can wait till the clock has started.

danm

@espiegel123, Thanks and I understand what you're saying in your initial paragraph, but given that Loopy Pro knows that there is an action set to be performed concurrent with the start of the clock (and it knows this prior to the clock being started), then unless a delay is added to that action somehow, I would think having the action not happen concurrent with the start of the clock would be considered a bug...Just out of interest, are you certain that it's not a bug? Might it be worth asking? Also, I'll consider your suggestion of trying an alternative to a start clock follow action to solve the problem, as well. Thanks