Apple App Store app refunds still a thing?

wim

@wagdog said:

@wim said:

@wagdog said:
(because there IS something they can do and anyone who has ever published an app knows that).

You didn't buy from the developer, you bought from Apple. In fact, the developer has no record whatever that can be connected to you. They only received 85% of the sale amount (from Apple, not from you). I suppose they could take you at your word that you bought it, or request you show your Apple purchase receipt, eat the 15%, and cut you a check for your purchase amount.

I'm just sayin' - I personally wouldn't hold the refund refusal particularly against the developer. It's 100% accurate to say that they have zero influence over Apple's decision making process. The only way they could "make it right" would be to cut you a check. That's kind of a lot to ask IMO. But that's just me.

[edit] On further thought after reading your original post, there is another way. They could give you a code for the new version. That would cost them nothing, and make things right for you. I wonder if they would consider it if you asked. Like me, they may not have thought through that option. Might be worth a try.

@espiegel123 said:

@wagdog said:

…,,,

I’ve reached out to the developer to see if they could do anything to help me and they can’t or won’t. They insist that only Apple can make it right.

I’m over it, but there are two results for me: I won’t buy any more of the developers apps (because there IS something they can do and anyone who has ever published an app knows that).

What do you mean by “there IS something they can do and anyone who has ever published an app knows that”

Other than offer you a coupon code for the other app, I don’t think there is something they can do. As far as I know, there is nothing a developer can do to get you a refund.

I know they couldn’t influence the refund decision as they have zero influence over that. I disagree that I didn’t buy the app from them: they made money from Apple because I paid Apple for the app. Had I not made the purchase, they wouldn’t get that money. I didn’t expect them to cut me a refund and wouldn’t suggest it.

Yes, they could’ve offered me a code for the updated app. After my second email to them I asked and they won’t do it. It would’ve cost them nothing and been a gesture of good faith that would’ve gone a long way. I could’ve furnished my receipt from Apple to prove I made the purchase.

The developer should have added something to the description of the outdated app that a newer version is available.

Yeh, that feels kinda crummy. It would cost them nothing.

timfromtheborder

@wim said:.

[edit] On further thought after reading your original post, there is another way. They could give you a code for the new version. That would cost them nothing, and make things right for you. I wonder if they would consider it if you asked. Like me, they may not have thought through that option. Might be worth a try.

I’m not 100% sure about this, but I think promo codes in the App Store only cover subscription services. Honestly, everything about how the app store is run is counterintuitive and not good for customers or developers. I would hesitate to hold anything Apple does against developers who are working within a very hostile and convoluted environment.

espiegel123

@timfromtheborder said:

I’m not 100% sure about this, but I think promo codes in the App Store only cover subscription services. …

Promo codes can be for anything in the App Store…standalone apps, IAPs, whatever.

espiegel123

@wagdog said:

@wim said:

I know they couldn’t influence the refund decision as they have zero influence over that. I disagree that I didn’t buy the app from them: they made money from Apple because I paid Apple for the app. Had I not made the purchase, they wouldn’t get that money. I didn’t expect them to cut me a refund and wouldn’t suggest it.

Yes, they could’ve offered me a code for the updated app. After my second email to them I asked and they won’t do it. It would’ve cost them nothing and been a gesture of good faith that would’ve gone a long way. I could’ve furnished my receipt from Apple to prove I made the purchase.

The developer should have added something to the description of the outdated app that a newer version is available.

That sucks that they didn’t give you a promo code for the other app. This is one of those cases where a bad review sounds merited.

rapidfire

@wagdog said:
@rapidfire - that’s seriously too bad. Man that stinks.

I’ve reached out to the developer to see if they could do anything to help me and they can’t or won’t. They insist that only Apple can make it right.

I’m over it, but there are two results for me: I won’t buy any more of the developers apps (because there IS something they can do and anyone who has ever published an app knows that). Secondly I’m running with what I have on my iPad (which is plenty) and won’t be buying many new apps in general (with the exception of updating loopy pro when the time comes).

In my correspondence with Apple I quoted all the sent and received emails together with dates from the developers, but Apple still stood by their decision, I even contacted the developer and explained the situation, they told me they were not in control of purchasing and it is purely down to Apple.
Here in the UK I could have taken it to Trading Standards and flexed my consumer rights, but that involves so much hassle, so I gave up the fight and decided No More Moog apps period!
Mike

robosardine

What’s the best box to tick in the EU if you want a refund under the “right of return” law - or is there a specific tick box for that?

x23

@robosardine said:
What’s the best box to tick in the EU if you want a refund under the “right of return” law - or is there a specific tick box for that?

Purchased by mistake

Robin2

@robosardine said:
What’s the best box to tick in the EU if you want a refund under the “right of return” law - or is there a specific tick box for that?

Don’t know about EU but in the UK it’s ‘Right of Withdrawal’.

filo01

@Robin2 said:

@robosardine said:
What’s the best box to tick in the EU if you want a refund under the “right of return” law - or is there a specific tick box for that?

Don’t know about EU but in the UK it’s ‘Right of Withdrawal’.

The same in the EU.

Robin2

@oscillotus said:
I feel it's especially dishonest from Apple since there is no ability to test an app before buying it. IMO, there are 2 ways of doing it. Let people demo an app but offer no refund or have a mandatory refund window.

I’ve said it before in such discussions: this is an occasion where Google gets it right over Apple. On Google Play, you get a two hour grace period (or, at least, you used to - I’m assuming it’s still the same?) after purchase within which you can get a zero hassle, no questions asked refund on apps bought. The ‘Buy’ button in the Play Store simply changes to a ‘Refund’ button during those two hours - press it, the app automatically uninstalls and you’re done.

Ailerom

At best App Store refunds are a lottery. At worst they appeared to be a system, designed and ruled by Apple, with no concern for the legitimacy of the refund claim, and further to that, completely lacking any recourse or explanation for the randomly determined outcome.

Meek3

@wim said:
I wouldn't be too surprised if they take some sort of sulky revenge on EU customers for Right of Return by refusing more refund requests outside the 14 day window. 🙄

Or by making the apps in euros more expensive? Or is this a dev thing?

Gavinski

@robosardine said:
What’s the best box to tick in the EU if you want a refund under the “right of return” law - or is there a specific tick box for that?

Anywhere you have Right of Withdrawal as an option - for example, EU, UK - choose that as the reason. Cannot be refused within a 2 week time limit, other reasons can be. Needless to say, do not abuse this privilege. Someone here a year or two ago mentioned that Apple banned their AppStore access entirely. They didn’t mention the reason, but it was likely something shitty like they were constantly refunding apps while keeping the apps on their device.

Meek3

@Gavinski said:

@robosardine said:
What’s the best box to tick in the EU if you want a refund under the “right of return” law - or is there a specific tick box for that?

Anywhere you have Right of Withdrawal as an option - for example, EU, UK - choose that as the reason. Cannot be refused within a 2 week time limit, other reasons can be. Needless to say, do not abuse this privilege. Someone here a year or two ago mentioned that Apple banned their AppStore access entirely. They didn’t mention the reason, but it was likely something shitty like they were constantly refunding apps while keeping the apps on their device.

Yes.thats not ok. I always delete the app after a refund.

Robin2

@Gavinski said:

@robosardine said:
What’s the best box to tick in the EU if you want a refund under the “right of return” law - or is there a specific tick box for that?

Anywhere you have Right of Withdrawal as an option - for example, EU, UK - choose that as the reason. Cannot be refused within a 2 week time limit, other reasons can be. Needless to say, do not abuse this privilege. Someone here a year or two ago mentioned that Apple banned their AppStore access entirely. They didn’t mention the reason, but it was likely something shitty like they were constantly refunding apps while keeping the apps on their device.

I might be remembering wrong, and not sure if this was the reason, but I think they did mention asking for right of withdrawal refunds multiple times for the same apps - i.e. buying, getting a refund, buying same app again at a later date, getting a refund again etc. - which, as you say abuses the privilege especially if you make a habit of it.

Apologies to that person if I’ve completely misremembered but I think it’s still sound advice to suggest that if you buy it a second time, keep it.

Gavinski

@Robin2 said:

@Gavinski said:

@robosardine said:
What’s the best box to tick in the EU if you want a refund under the “right of return” law - or is there a specific tick box for that?

Anywhere you have Right of Withdrawal as an option - for example, EU, UK - choose that as the reason. Cannot be refused within a 2 week time limit, other reasons can be. Needless to say, do not abuse this privilege. Someone here a year or two ago mentioned that Apple banned their AppStore access entirely. They didn’t mention the reason, but it was likely something shitty like they were constantly refunding apps while keeping the apps on their device.

I might be remembering wrong, and not sure if this was the reason, but I think they did mention asking for right of withdrawal refunds multiple times for the same apps - i.e. buying, getting a refund, buying same app again at a later date, getting a refund again etc. - which, as you say abuses the privilege especially if you make a habit of it.

Apologies to that person if I’ve completely misremembered but I think it’s still sound advice to suggest that if you buy it a second time, keep it.

OK, interesting, yeah my memory was that this person felt they done something wrong and they admitted that, but I don't remember them going into details.

wagdog

@Ailerom said:
At best App Store refunds are a lottery. At worst they appeared to be a system, designed and ruled by Apple, with no concern for the legitimacy of the refund claim, and further to that, completely lacking any recourse or explanation for the randomly determined outcome.

The fact that the first attempt at a refund doesn’t offer the consumer a chance to write why they want a refund says it all: the answer is essentially no. They may be taking your purchase and return history into account, but if they are, that process should be transparent.

They also don’t actually respond to your second attempt where you can write something and only say “not eligible”. This reeks of an automated de facto “no” as well. They should have to say “all sales are final” if that’s the case.

Mark my words, there will be a class-action lawsuit for this. Consumers will get $2.50 each and the lawyers 100 million.

Gavinski

@wagdog said:

@Ailerom said:
At best App Store refunds are a lottery. At worst they appeared to be a system, designed and ruled by Apple, with no concern for the legitimacy of the refund claim, and further to that, completely lacking any recourse or explanation for the randomly determined outcome.

The fact that the first attempt at a refund doesn’t offer the consumer a chance to write why they want a refund says it all: the answer is essentially no. They may be taking your purchase and return history into account, but if they are, that process should be transparent.

They also don’t actually respond to your second attempt where you can write something and only say “not eligible”. This reeks of an automated de facto “no” as well. They should have to say “all sales are final” if that’s the case.

Mark my words, there will be a class-action lawsuit for this. Consumers will get $2.50 each and the lawyers 100 million.

Apple unfortunately, like basically all the big tech companies, - Google, Meta, Windows, X, YouTube - is a pretty horrible company at the end of the day, and one which cares a lot more about its shareholders than its users. Sad but true. They're incredibly powerful and they will try to get away with as much abuse and exploitation as possible, for as long as they can.

wim

@Meek3 said:

@wim said:
I wouldn't be too surprised if they take some sort of sulky revenge on EU customers for Right of Return by refusing more refund requests outside the 14 day window. 🙄

Or by making the apps in euros more expensive? Or is this a dev thing?

That's Apple. The App Store works in price buckets. Developers set a base price point from a choice of 800 different tiers in a country or region they're familiar with. Apple then sets the prices in other regions according to their own formulas, which they revise periodically. Differing cost of doing business, taxes, currency exchange, etc, in countries and regions factor into the conversion rate.

Developers can override pricing by region or country but have to go out of their way to do so and it isn't to their advantage really since it doesn't affect them directly if cost of doing business in a region goes up or down.

With the App Store, developers aren't actually selling the product to the consumer, Apple is. They're just supplying the product to Apple for them to sell and Apple is paying them 85% of the sale amount.

Fear2Stop

@wagdog said:

@Ailerom said:
At best App Store refunds are a lottery. At worst they appeared to be a system, designed and ruled by Apple, with no concern for the legitimacy of the refund claim, and further to that, completely lacking any recourse or explanation for the randomly determined outcome.

The fact that the first attempt at a refund doesn’t offer the consumer a chance to write why they want a refund says it all: the answer is essentially no. They may be taking your purchase and return history into account, but if they are, that process should be transparent.

They also don’t actually respond to your second attempt where you can write something and only say “not eligible”. This reeks of an automated de facto “no” as well. They should have to say “all sales are final” if that’s the case.

Mark my words, there will be a class-action lawsuit for this. Consumers will get $2.50 each and the lawyers 100 million.

I actually had a box come up where I could type in why I wanted a refund on OBX3, and it didn’t give me the usual drop down selections . I copied and pasted what the dev told me, and my refund was approved 11 hours later. It was the absolute quickest the process has ever been for me, and the only time the box ever showed up for me to type in stuff rather than use the drop down . This was a couple of weeks ago

Gavinski

@Fear2Stop said:

@wagdog said:

@Ailerom said:
At best App Store refunds are a lottery. At worst they appeared to be a system, designed and ruled by Apple, with no concern for the legitimacy of the refund claim, and further to that, completely lacking any recourse or explanation for the randomly determined outcome.

The fact that the first attempt at a refund doesn’t offer the consumer a chance to write why they want a refund says it all: the answer is essentially no. They may be taking your purchase and return history into account, but if they are, that process should be transparent.

They also don’t actually respond to your second attempt where you can write something and only say “not eligible”. This reeks of an automated de facto “no” as well. They should have to say “all sales are final” if that’s the case.

Mark my words, there will be a class-action lawsuit for this. Consumers will get $2.50 each and the lawyers 100 million.

I actually had a box come up where I could type in why I wanted a refund on OBX3, and it didn’t give me the usual drop down selections . I copied and pasted what the dev told me, and my refund was approved 11 hours later. It was the absolute quickest the process has ever been for me, and the only time the box ever showed up for me to type in stuff rather than use the drop down . This was a couple of weeks ago

Yeah it seems they have changed the system slightly. Again tho, this dev might have advised you on what to say, but I really don't think anything is guaranteed, there are no 'magic words', Apple's process is fickle, and the dev has zero say in Apple's decision.

Meek3

@Gavinski said:

@Fear2Stop said:

@wagdog said:

@Ailerom said:
At best App Store refunds are a lottery. At worst they appeared to be a system, designed and ruled by Apple, with no concern for the legitimacy of the refund claim, and further to that, completely lacking any recourse or explanation for the randomly determined outcome.

The fact that the first attempt at a refund doesn’t offer the consumer a chance to write why they want a refund says it all: the answer is essentially no. They may be taking your purchase and return history into account, but if they are, that process should be transparent.

They also don’t actually respond to your second attempt where you can write something and only say “not eligible”. This reeks of an automated de facto “no” as well. They should have to say “all sales are final” if that’s the case.

Mark my words, there will be a class-action lawsuit for this. Consumers will get $2.50 each and the lawyers 100 million.

I actually had a box come up where I could type in why I wanted a refund on OBX3, and it didn’t give me the usual drop down selections . I copied and pasted what the dev told me, and my refund was approved 11 hours later. It was the absolute quickest the process has ever been for me, and the only time the box ever showed up for me to type in stuff rather than use the drop down . This was a couple of weeks ago

Yeah it seems they have changed the system slightly. Again tho, this dev might have advised you on what to say, but I really don't think anything is guaranteed, there are no 'magic words', Apple's process is fickle, and the dev has zero say in Apple's decision.

And who decides the differences in pricing?
The same apps are most of the times way more in euro’s than in dollars.

Gavinski

@Meek3 said:

@Gavinski said:

@Fear2Stop said:

@wagdog said:

@Ailerom said:
At best App Store refunds are a lottery. At worst they appeared to be a system, designed and ruled by Apple, with no concern for the legitimacy of the refund claim, and further to that, completely lacking any recourse or explanation for the randomly determined outcome.

The fact that the first attempt at a refund doesn’t offer the consumer a chance to write why they want a refund says it all: the answer is essentially no. They may be taking your purchase and return history into account, but if they are, that process should be transparent.

They also don’t actually respond to your second attempt where you can write something and only say “not eligible”. This reeks of an automated de facto “no” as well. They should have to say “all sales are final” if that’s the case.

Mark my words, there will be a class-action lawsuit for this. Consumers will get $2.50 each and the lawyers 100 million.

I actually had a box come up where I could type in why I wanted a refund on OBX3, and it didn’t give me the usual drop down selections . I copied and pasted what the dev told me, and my refund was approved 11 hours later. It was the absolute quickest the process has ever been for me, and the only time the box ever showed up for me to type in stuff rather than use the drop down . This was a couple of weeks ago

Yeah it seems they have changed the system slightly. Again tho, this dev might have advised you on what to say, but I really don't think anything is guaranteed, there are no 'magic words', Apple's process is fickle, and the dev has zero say in Apple's decision.

And who decides the differences in pricing?
The same apps are most of the times way more in euro’s than in dollars.

Apple decide the prices in different currencies generally, unless the dev overrides that, which it seems few do. Higher prices in the EU and UK is also because of VAT. I think this was discussed earlier in this thread, if not you could Google for more info. But yeah, not the developers' fault, it's to do with Apple and their own countries' taxation policies.

wim

@Meek3 said:
And who decides the differences in pricing?
The same apps are most of the times way more in euro’s than in dollars.

Apple.

They take into account the whole cost of doing business in each region. Taxes, regulations, reporting requirements, currency rate exposure, laws like right of return, and I'm sure a whole lot of other things. My original point is I wouldn't be too darn surprised if, in the case of the EU, there was even a little bit of childish spite thrown into the mix due to the hand slaps they've received a few times now.

They make adjustments periodically when they see fit.

Gavinski

@Meek3 said:

@Gavinski said:

@Fear2Stop said:

@wagdog said:

@Ailerom said:
At best App Store refunds are a lottery. At worst they appeared to be a system, designed and ruled by Apple, with no concern for the legitimacy of the refund claim, and further to that, completely lacking any recourse or explanation for the randomly determined outcome.

The fact that the first attempt at a refund doesn’t offer the consumer a chance to write why they want a refund says it all: the answer is essentially no. They may be taking your purchase and return history into account, but if they are, that process should be transparent.

They also don’t actually respond to your second attempt where you can write something and only say “not eligible”. This reeks of an automated de facto “no” as well. They should have to say “all sales are final” if that’s the case.

Mark my words, there will be a class-action lawsuit for this. Consumers will get $2.50 each and the lawyers 100 million.

I actually had a box come up where I could type in why I wanted a refund on OBX3, and it didn’t give me the usual drop down selections . I copied and pasted what the dev told me, and my refund was approved 11 hours later. It was the absolute quickest the process has ever been for me, and the only time the box ever showed up for me to type in stuff rather than use the drop down . This was a couple of weeks ago

Yeah it seems they have changed the system slightly. Again tho, this dev might have advised you on what to say, but I really don't think anything is guaranteed, there are no 'magic words', Apple's process is fickle, and the dev has zero say in Apple's decision.

And who decides the differences in pricing?
The same apps are most of the times way more in euro’s than in dollars.

Yeah, Wim already wrote you a direct and detailed answer to your earlier question about that, did you read it?:

https://forum.loopypro.com/discussion/comment/1461668/#Comment_1461668

wim

@Gavinski said:
Yeah, Wim already wrote you a direct and detailed answer to your earlier question about that, did you read it?:

I use way too many words. I would tune me out too. 💤

Meek3

@Gavinski said:

@Meek3 said:

@Gavinski said:

@Fear2Stop said:

@wagdog said:

@Ailerom said:
At best App Store refunds are a lottery. At worst they appeared to be a system, designed and ruled by Apple, with no concern for the legitimacy of the refund claim, and further to that, completely lacking any recourse or explanation for the randomly determined outcome.

The fact that the first attempt at a refund doesn’t offer the consumer a chance to write why they want a refund says it all: the answer is essentially no. They may be taking your purchase and return history into account, but if they are, that process should be transparent.

They also don’t actually respond to your second attempt where you can write something and only say “not eligible”. This reeks of an automated de facto “no” as well. They should have to say “all sales are final” if that’s the case.

Mark my words, there will be a class-action lawsuit for this. Consumers will get $2.50 each and the lawyers 100 million.

I actually had a box come up where I could type in why I wanted a refund on OBX3, and it didn’t give me the usual drop down selections . I copied and pasted what the dev told me, and my refund was approved 11 hours later. It was the absolute quickest the process has ever been for me, and the only time the box ever showed up for me to type in stuff rather than use the drop down . This was a couple of weeks ago

Yeah it seems they have changed the system slightly. Again tho, this dev might have advised you on what to say, but I really don't think anything is guaranteed, there are no 'magic words', Apple's process is fickle, and the dev has zero say in Apple's decision.

And who decides the differences in pricing?
The same apps are most of the times way more in euro’s than in dollars.

Yeah, Wim already wrote you a direct and detailed answer to your earlier question about that, did you read it?:

https://forum.loopypro.com/discussion/comment/1461668/#Comment_1461668

I have a bad short term memory 😊

satchnut

As for refunds… In the US, Apple user since the beginning, spent oodles of cash on apps and stuff, with refund request success rate of ~20-25% throughout. Haven’t made many requests, probably less than 20.

Appealing denied request success rate: 0%.

Also it doesn’t seem like requesting refund asap after purchasing necessarily increases chances of approved refund request.

Not sure if they’ve changed in the last year or so.