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Ipad 2 w/ 6.0.1 OS - Sunrizer woes
Feel like I'm losing my mind. Last night, I seemed to be getting great performance w/ AB, MultiTrackDAW, Thumbjam, etc. (not in overtly taxing combinations). Today, after a fresh reboot, etc. I tried a basic arp pattern in Sunrizer, which was popping like nuts. I noticed the latency setting @ 256 samples, so I changed it to 512; popping disappeared. However, the moment I launch Audiobus, Sunrizer defaults back to 256. I didn't even load SR into AB. Also, it remains locked on 256 for as long as AB is running, even w/o having loaded Sunrizer into AB's input.
Do I need a new ipad? Frustrating as hell.
Comments
Please do NOT change the latency of apps when trying to use them with Audiobus.
Audiobus requires a latency of 256. If you change it to something higher, audio will be distorted.
Reducing the polyphony helped me a bit on my ipad mini(same specs as the ipad 2) In sunrizer.
That's the right thing to do.
Sebastian, unfortunately this happens with NLog as well. Even without a filter app in the line, only Speaker out.
I have an iPad mini and an iPad 3.Gen. So i made a comparison video.
It is 4:45 minutes long. Skip the first 50 seconds, as it only shows the startup of both iPads.
The video is not visible in the youtube search.
Both iPads run on iOS 6.0
Restart after shutdown with all apps killed prior shutdown.
Without Audiobus, Sunrizer and NLog run smoothly on both devices. As soon as Audiobus is in the game things are getting bad on the mini, but not on the 3.Gen.. Arp, polyphony and certain presets cause problems. Note the timing light in Sunrizer. Limiting the polyphony in Sunrizer helps, but it is not a satisfying solution. In NLog I found no way to solve this.
I do like Audiobus and appreciate your work.
Hope there will be a solution for this.
Viktor
Hey Viktor. Unfortunately there's not a lot we can do about this personally - this is something I recommend taking to Jarek of BeepStreet (http://beepstreet.com/sunrizer) and Rolf of Tempo Rubato (http://www.temporubato.com).
Here's what's going on, just so you know:
It's not Audiobus per se, but multitasking that's having an impact here. With one app running, the app has full control over the whole device - this is what developers up to now have been testing with and developing for, a device that's all theirs.
With Audiobus, suddenly the idea is to have more than one app. That means it's sharing time, and each running app now has to share the CPU with the others, which means it's not getting as much CPU-time to do its thing.
Most of the time, that's fine, but if you really push things - such as high polyphony with sophisticated patches - you're going to max out the CPU more than you would if you were running only one app.
This will improve as Audiobus apps mature and get used to sharing, and as these iOS devices get ever more powerful: It's a case of 'growing pains', as developers get used to this brave new world. Until then, we have to limit polyphony.
Michael : "Hey Viktor. Unfortunately there's not a lot we can do about this personally - this is something I recommend taking to Jarek of BeepStreet (http://beepstreet.com/sunrizer) and Rolf of Tempo Rubato (http://www.temporubato.com)."
Done.
Viktor
Hi,
here's Rolf answering from NLog/TempoRubato. Here's my analysis and at the end there's some practical tip for iPad mini & iPad2 owners. But you have to read it through before ;-)
First of all, nice video. I can confirm this behavior. And I can also speak for NLog, but I think Jarek will comment on its own maybe something in same direction.
The iPad mini is comparable to the iPad2 in performance. I've even the impression that the mini which I like very much is a bit less performant then an iPad2. So, there's no wonder that an iPad3 can do much more than iPad2 or mini. And please, don't run AudioBus on an iPad1. No fun ;-)
More important is the question why suddenly NLog crackles on a mini in combination with AudioBus than without, even if in AudioBus is just NLog and the speaker assigned.
I did some deep testing before releasing the NLog update and had some discussions with Michael. It even lead to an update and re-review of the app which was a bit time critical before the AudioBus launch since I've had to request an urgency review mode with Apple ;-)
All important is the fact that AudioBus is based on a 256 sample frames buffer size. On an iPad mini this leads to crackles because with higher polyphony NLog hasn't enough CPU time to deliver new samples in time. I suppose this is similar with Sunrizer.
NLog normally adapts its buffer size to the device it's used on. So, on an iPad mini or iPad2 NLog uses 512 samples. Thus, you do not get crackles easily. Or course, this is a compromise since there's always a way to get it. But 512 seemed to me reasonable. On an iPad3 or 4 NLog uses 256 by default.
When AudioBus starts NLog, then AudioBus dictates 256 sample buffer size. This leads to the crackles. I have discussed that with Michael, but his concept is not to have the user to tune the buffer size nor to have an adaptive mechanism like NLog does.
Now, here's the practical trick which improves the situation. You still cannot convert an mini into an iPad3, but it helps to some nice portion:
When you start NLog before AudioBus, NLog will set the buffer size to 512. If you the start the AudioBus app afterwards, it isn't able to change it back to 256. However, Michael built AudioBus in a flexible way that it can cope with the situation that it doesn't get it's requested 256 buffer size and must use 512.
Now, you may ask "Why NLog is able to do this?"
Eventually iOS dictates the buffer size and apps can only request a specific one. But there seems to be a rule, that the first app which starts a recording session fixes the buffer size in a way that a following app cannot change it back. Since the NLog update also includes a new feature with which it 'records' from the audio input and processes this with its effects, NLog creates a recording session on an iPad mini with 512 buffer size if it's started before AudioBus. So, no luck for Michael then ;->
With other apps using just a playback session this trick doesn't work. The AudioBus is the first recording session and overrides the previous buffer size with its 256.
IMHO It would be best to have a setting in AudioBus to specify different buffer sizes. But it's up to Michael to decide that.
Hope the helps & happy bus riding!
Rolf
Very informative.
Looks like it's time to consider an iPad upgrade.
Lovely answer, Rolf, cheers
The reason, incidentally, that Audiobus requests a 256-frame buffer is because of the latency - with a 256-frame buffer (that's 5ms), Audiobus' latency is about 20-30ms, which is pretty good. With a 512-frame buffer, that climbs to around 40-60ms, which is starting to get a bit too high for music, so it's been necessary to clamp that down whenever possible.
Rolf said everything. I agree, Michael should consider 512 buffer size option. This latency is still acceptable and necessary if we want to use several synths/timbres (even on A6 chip). As for Sunrizer: no tricks, just reduce polyphony and/or disable reverb.
Unless we add 30ms :>
Can anyone confirm that the iPad 4 tackles these concerns w/o any hiccups?
I'd consider the upgrade if only I could be certain that I could run a few things into DAW via Audiobus, without these heartbreaking pops.
My anecdotal experience: I have not heard a single pop or crackle using NLog Pro, Sunrizer MT DAW, or Audiobus on my ipad4
Hmmm... A few more comments like that and I'll be packing bagged lunches for the next 4 months.
@The_Unflattered I´m sure you will have issues even with the best machine you are sitting on. This is my experience since I use computer which is in fact since 22 years :-). Running after performance, power and speed makes no sense. IMHO. Sorry for this truth....
However, Rolf said some really interesting points but I´m not sure if a "give-me-more-latency" knob would be a solution. An iPad has limited performance, so better we learn to reduce our demands to a realistic point. Audiobus is a rocket, but it´s not magic. However, the synths like sunrizer or Nlog were not developed with Audiobus in mind, maybe the next generation takes less power then.
just my2cents...
Sunrizer on iPad4 test: 30 complex voices on a single core (most probably can go up to 50 when using 2 cores). Each voice: 30x 3 unisono layers x 2 super saws x 7 saws = 1260 saw waves + 30x2 filters + 30x2 lfos + fx .. A6X eats a lot of mid-price hardware synths DSPs for breakfast.
ok, this makes my comment completely nonsens :-)
(Edit: the first part of it...)
You're right though. Chasing performance is always a temporary fix. This notion is the only thing that stops me from spending every last dime on hardware.
Something I did wanna emphasise - I strongly believe this is only a temporary problem; none of us developers are used to sharing the device with other hefty apps, and it's a learning curve we're all going to have to climb in order to live together in harmony.
But climb it we will!
The iPad 4 is the thing to get though if you want to use Audiobus extensively. It's just THAT much faster (more than twice the iPad 3).
I love my iPad 4. There, I said it.
I bet people who shelled out for the 3 are madder'n shit. The iPhone 5 is almost 2X vs iPad 3.
I know I am.