What is your monitoring set-up: how are you listening?

WMWM

Curious as to who is utilizing a sub in their mixing. I am under the impression not many people are listening with a sub.

I understand the low frequency and wavelength compared to room size science, but would like to know how many are able to hear the low end of things.

What is your monitring chain? (For general or critical listening)

JohnnyGoodyear

Always willing to be persuaded/educated.

animal

I'm using a sub for my "soundcheck-like-setup", before leaving for a gig. That is because I do live performances that include a sub, as well. So I kind of know, what it's gonna sound like, ahead in time. In daily life I do like to just sit down with the Pad and play around with headphones, or even the built-in Speakers (it's just ultra-portable this way, which gives me just seconds to get started...). I do get surprised from time to time, how different some sounds appear plugged in to my PA, though. Makes A LOT (cheers to Jaqob Haq) of difference, this low-end thingie...

[Deleted User]

Usually standard Apple earphones or a MiniRig for general iPad use, and a Creative speaker setup with sub cab for more detailed workings. For band/neighbour annoyance I put the output through my Yamaha mixer and into either my Marshall lead or Orange Bass rig.

Carlsson

I have a couple of Behringer MS16... I have to say, they sound surprisingly good, for the price and for just 16 watts, but I guess they're far from optimal for real mixing/monitoring.

I try to reference my mixes (oh yeah, now I sound like a real pro, don't I ;-) ) in my car, on my home surround system, in earbuds etc.

JohnnyGoodyear

jg takes out the sekrit notepad and scribbles down reference my mixes with the intention of impressing Mrs. Goodyear that all this money has not been wasted....

Thomas

Audio Technica M50 cans here. I check mixes in the car and living room stereo before releasing. I won't invest in studio monitors(especially with a sub) until I have a proper environment. the spare room I was using before[PowerMac w/RME converters to Tannoy Reveal Actives(the GOOD ones from 2001)] had no acoustic treatment and my mixes suffered as a result.

Tarekith

No sub here, but my monitors are flat to 30Hz so I don't need one. In general though I find that subs tend to cause more issues than they help, proper placement and room treatment really are needed to make sure what you're hearing is flat.

asnor

I used a sub for a long time, but the monitors I was using with it broke down and I couldn't afford to replace them, so I ended up selling the sub. It was a pretty sweet setup in a heavily treated room; sometimes I miss it.

These days I monitor on headphones and they're good down to 30hz, so I don't miss the sub THAT much.

ChrisG

Only a pair of Creative speakers here, good ones, but still only PC speakers. I use a pair of Shure reference cans, more entry level, but I'm only a hobbyist so it's good enough. And a pair of AKG dj headphones if I need to hear just how much bass is added with regular consumer headphones. But in the end, I usually don't care that much, and my mixes are ALL over the spectrum. I can come up with melodies and shit, but I'll never, ever, be a good mixer.

AlterEgo_UK

M-Audio AV-40 monitors, here usually but Sony ZX-310 headphones when I am listening at night!

Crabman

I use a combination of different stuff.For the creative part (Headphones) Sennheiser HD590,JBL j22,AKG K271 MKII and (speakers) Mackie HR824.

For final mixing:the AKG,the Mackies and some giant Infinity speakers from my flatmate.

CalCutta

Old M-Audio BX8's which will probably be replaced within the next few months (hopefully with Adam's), and a JBL LSR2310 powered subwoofer.

Having a sub makes all the difference in the world. Placement of that sub is equally important. Right now my room is terrible (I have no space), but I'm moving in a couple weeks into a place with more room. Hopin' the neighbors don't hate me!

asnor

I had that JBL@CalCutta said:

and a JBL LSR2310 powered subwoofer.

That's the model I had. Paired it with the Equator D5's. It was pretty awesome.

WMWM

I currently use small format monitors, in a DIY treated room, spot check with some senheiser hd headphones and a reference check on some HPM 100's (big speakers).

It seems the concensious is no sub; headphones and small mointors prevail; but bass is to be felt (in your chest) rather than heard. Im not nescesarily talkng about Bass head music; rock and metal, electronica etc. all have a history of base.

So in mixing, knowing most will listen on earpods or headphones, do you throw out the low end by drastic cuts below lets say 80 or so leaving more energy available in the rest of the spectrum?

Mobile is chaging music, not just how we perform or produce it, but also how we hear/feel it.

Good read here for any who are intrested. http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan07/articles/mixingheadphones.htm

Will

I use a pair of Tapco S-8 powered monitors and I love them.

I used a pair of NS-10s for a decade and could never hear the bass unless I used cans. I would just guess! Guess->Burn CD->Go to car->"Fuck"->Guess->Burn CD... Towards the end I sort of 'learned' them (along with learning to use my eyes on a frequency analyzer and yes, constant brutal HPF) but ... so much meh. I actually traded them in at pro audio store here in town and left with the Tapcos - no cash. Guy was stoked because he could move the Yamahas easily and I was stoked because I could hear bass when mixing ffs.

Like any monitors, you have to learn them but it's hard to learn what you can't hear. Conventional wisdom is that subs cause more harm than they're worth but if you think it will help and are willing to put in the time to learn them, I say why not.

Or, if you like your HPMs, why not move them into your studio?

WMWM

They are (a/b channel). But whats the point of fussing? Not many are actually "hearing" it. The back and forth thing is always a guessing game. Ive found listening with your eyes (reading meters for what you cant hear) is decieving, and then the loudness creeps in.

Peer feedback has become very important.

apostle

I use Dynaudio BM5's without a sub, but I'm hoping to get one shortly. Secondary is mine and my wife's car audio (BMW 325i and Mercury Mariner). Between the 3 of those, most mixes translate pretty well (if you've never mixed in a car, you should give it a try... it's a lot of... fun?)

Tarekith

Just don't use a cassette adapter, the frequency response will change every time you insert it.

WMWM

^Lol

Will

@WMWM said:

They are (a/b channel). But whats the point of fussing? Not many are actually "hearing" it. The back and forth thing is always a guessing game.

Not everyone is listening to 64kbps MP3s and, importantly, to me anyway, you aren't. It's your work. Make it sound good to you.

If you have an A/B set up with speakers that deliver bass, I'm not sure I'd bother with a sub and the associated headaches. Probably more valuable to have a set of speakers with limited bass response than to relearn a pair of speakers with a sub (and deal with all of the room problems associated with them).

Have you done the "spend a lot of time listening to music you know well through them" thing? I put the tapco's in my living for the first week!

2 cents.

WMWM

All good advise. Thank you

I do know these monitors well and their translation, about a year with these, burnt them in with the Eagles "Hell freezes over" album on repeat for a good many hours. (Great Dynamics on that album)

Was more wondering if its worth the extra effort dialing in the bass, if many won't feel it. Low cut and forget i guess.

Deb

Emes mini owl

Tarekith

@WMWM said:

^Lol

I was actually serious. The low end and midrange of most cassette adapters fluctuates a lot depending on how it's inserted and how good of a contact is made. Competing in car audio is what got me into critical listening, and ultimately mastering.

Tarekith

Oh, and definitely don't low cut and forget who knows who wil hear your album and on what set up. Always best to aim to please as many as you can, not permanently process your audio based on what YOU can't hear.

IMVHO

WMWM

@Tarekith said:

Oh, and definitely don't low cut and forget who knows who wil hear your album and on what set up. Always best to aim to please as many as you can, not permanently process your audio based on what YOU can't hear.

IMVHO

You actually echoed the main point (if there ever was one). The LOL was due to the fact that that was actually me and my trusty walkman, many moons ago (many many). The issue is settled, at least in my mind.

All good advise.

@Deb awsome, those look unique, GS has some good reviews.

musikmachine

@Carlsson said:

I have a couple of Behringer MS16... I have to say, they sound surprisingly good, for the price and for just 16 watts, but I guess they're far from optimal for real mixing/monitoring.

I try to reference my mixes (oh yeah, now I sound like a real pro, don't I ;-) ) in my car, on my home surround system, in earbuds etc.

Referencing against other tracks is really good for reality checks and keeping objective during mixing sessions but also great for checking if your mixes are in the ballpark.

I'm using Focal CMS50s with a KRK10s sub calibrated with Arc room correction. Not the best sub for mixing but it's surprising how much low end can be missed on nearfields.

I'm working in a large room with some treatment otherwise i'd probably need wall to wall bass traps to contain the bass lol! Nah it's not that bad, i work at low levels anyway but i did have to spend some time setting it up, finding the right location etc. I'd rather have it than not.

Pianokey88

If all you have is headphones for mixing and mastering, then use a studio reference model with a flat frequency response such as the AKG 240DF. I think that model was discontinued, but there are replacements.

eustressor

+1 on the AKG 240. I've got two pair and they are flatter than Kris Kristofferson at a Kansas karaoke bar. At 600 ohms though, you need a good headphone amp. Mine pushes them just enough.

For monitors, I'm running 3 speaker pairs through a Behringer MiniMon which allows me to A/B/C between mains, mids and cheapo. I have the JBL LSR305s for my mains, Alesis M1Active 320s for midrange and a $30 pair of 2.1 CyberAcoustic computer speakers for average Joe speakers. I also run the CAs through a Behringer MiniFBQ 9 band equalizer so I can compare average Joe to above-average Joe, essentially giving me 4 points of reference + the AKGs. Periodically I'll mix down to reference in the car, on my iPhone and throughout the house via AirPlay.

One bonus feature of the MiniMon is a mono button which throws whichever set I'm listening to dead center for mixing in mono.

The only acoustic treatment in my studio is the World's Most Comfortable Couch in one corner, so it helps to have multiple monitor options. I also agree that commercial reference tracks are indispensable as a handy reminder that you've still got a ways to go

EDIT: Forgot to mention subs ... None on the pro monitors, a tiny one on my cheap reference speakers, and plenty of subs throughout the house. Guess I check my bass levels at the "user experience" end of the spectrum.

asnor

@WMWM said:

but bass is to be felt (in your chest) rather than heard. Im not nescesarily talkng about Bass head music; rock and metal, electronica etc. all have a history of base.

So in mixing, knowing most will listen on earpods or headphones, do you throw out the low end by drastic cuts below lets say 80 or so leaving more energy available in the rest of the spectrum?

You can mix deep bass on headphones; you just need to find a pair that reproduce it and (as mentioned) are reasonably accurate. Beyond that, the trick is to use good reference material.

Korakios

@asnor said:

@WMWM said:

but bass is to be felt (in your chest) rather than heard. Im not nescesarily talkng about Bass head music; rock and metal, electronica etc. all have a history of base.

So in mixing, knowing most will listen on earpods or headphones, do you throw out the low end by drastic cuts below lets say 80 or so leaving more energy available in the rest of the spectrum?

You can mix deep bass on headphones; you just need to find a pair that reproduce it and (as mentioned) are reasonably accurate. Beyond that, the trick is to use good reference material.

Sure you can ,but you will loose the feeling of the song. It's what WMWM said. Ask a bass guitar player (especially reggae/ dub) if he would prefer playing with the best headphones in the world or a cheap loud 1KW amp....