Audio Mastering Question

Matt_Fletcher_2000

I'm finally getting into the Audio Mastering app to master my Gadget tracks (long overdue probably).

Gadget live into Audio Mastering via audiobus is really great. You can see certain problems in the visual EQ page (or hear them by using the solo function on a particular frequency band) and then flick over to Gadget to address the problem at source. And of course play with track levels in Gadget while at the same time mastering the master bus output in Audio Mastering. It feels nice and quick and simple and gets round having to render and export every stem into Auria (I simply don't have the free storage for this and it commits you).

I'd be interested on any thoughts on the pros and cons of this method. I know it doesn't give full EQ and filter plugin control over every track - but you can generally go into any Gadget and sort problems in the synth patch or automation or volume of a drum or whatever. It's working well for me so far.

Can I ask I dumb question though:

If the master output level in Audio Mastering very, very occasionally (ie once or twice in a track) hits the 'over' bar momentarily (on a drum hit coupled with a big bass sound normally) is this a big issue? Do I need to fight the gain in that frequency throughout the whole track just to be on the safe side or am I being too cautious?

The help section in AudioMastering isn't very clear. It says if it goes into the 'ovr' it will be limiting the output anyway - but that you risk the RMS going over -10db or something. (I didn't quite follow).

Thanks in advance for any advice.

telecharge

I say yes, you want to avoid any clipping. While it may sound okay or even interesting on your system, it likely won't on others. Using your example, I would find the frequency of the drum hit and then dip (scoop) out that frequency in your bass via EQ to make room for it.

JohnnyGoodyear

Interesting approach. I haven't much to offer, but look forward to Our Betters educating us with their esteemed two cents etc.

PHᐃNTᐃSM

Audio Mastering will make sure your signal won't clip. The "ovr" indicator simply warns you that your dynamic range is getting low and potentially problematic.

Gadget itself has some magic going on in the background to ensure your signal won't clip unless you really start pushing the volume, even with the limiter off.

You can always try using AM's multiband compressor to tame a sharp midrange snare (for example) too.

Matt_Fletcher_2000

Thanks Guys. Will try your suggestions. Pleased both AM and Gadget give some extra help to stop clipping.

I guess I could also render it and have a close look at the wave frame visually to see if it is clipped at that point?

RUncELL

Hi Matt, So you're running Gadget via Audiobus into Audio mastering and recording your track as it's being mastered into Audio mastering..That's not a bad idea, as you can try out different settings - BUT you can do that with recordings in AM anyway.

Here are some Cons- There's a possibility of glitches being recorded (as you're running 3 Apps) the processor/ CPU is working harder. Also what sounds good at home may sound bad on another system and you wont have a dry (no mastered) recording to go back to.

May be better practice to export your Gadget track (as a stereo WAV file) and import it to Audio mastering where you can still try out different master settings and you're only running 1 App.. Hope that makes sense.

EDIT- and best to stay out of the 'OVR' 2 bars. could be that 0dB is set to -10dBv giving 10dB of headroom before digital clipping occurs, i have noticed it distorts when the signal enters the 'ovr' bars.

Matt_Fletcher_2000

Thanks RUncELL.

Ive just been experimenting really. The Gadget track isn't completely finished yet. When it comes to final mastering I'll definitely mix down from Gadget into a wav and then import that WAV into AM.

But I just figured as part of the mixing / automating process (getting things sounding right in the synth settings in Gadget etc) it's been useful to run it through AM 'live' from Gadget and try it on a few systems and tweak the synths live in Gadget. The visual readings in the EQ screen are great to inform you of how much of an even spread you have accross the full frequency range for example.

But you're right about the final mix. For one, I think Gadget deals with preloading samples and avoiding clicks better when you do a mix down than when you play out live.

PhilW

It's a great idea and one which should lead to some great sounding tracks, if you have the processor speed to do it. I am still on an iPad2 and struggle to get more than 5-6 tracks in Gadget - I will probably upgrade this year though!

Matt_Fletcher_2000

Gadget runs beautifully on my iPad Air 1. I have very few problems. And run it alongside all sorts of other apps all the time.

I normally end up with around 16 tracks in any project. Lots and lots of samples being triggered, plus synths.

TBH Air 1 + iOS7.1 has been amazingly stable and smooth for me. Never have any issues whatever I throw at it.

I hope when I go to iOS8 it doesn't mess with things.

Matt_Fletcher_2000

@telecharge

That's good advice about dipping the bass at that frequency - but that's a good example of something I can't easily do without rendering stems out of Gadget into something like Auria as far as I know.

Unfortunately Gadget has no EQ (at least not on the Dublin Gadget) and dipping it on the master output in Audio Mastering will end up dipping both the bass and the snare.

I might just have to bite the bullet and render stems to Auria. But it's such a drain on storage space and generally a hassle (and I don't know Auria - although I have it).

Bring on basic channel strip EQ in Gadget!!!

telecharge

I was thinking you could solo the bass track and record it while EQing it with an effects app in the FX slot, then mix it with the rest of your Gadget tracks.

Compression may also work. Perhaps try single band compression and increase the gain to make up the difference?

Jose_Bee

I've found that metering in iOS is a bit dodgy when it comes to mastering I can get my stuff limited to -0.2db and my levels as high as they go before going into the red, everything fine right? I get the output into my desktop daw and the levels were nowhere near how iOS were. I use final touch and audiomastering.

RUncELL

Yes, great idea Matt. Using Audio mastering as a mix aid, soloing different tracks and seeing the frequency content is very helpful. Hats off to you sir A great example of the flexibility of ios music production.

Tarekith

@Jose_Bee said:

I've found that metering in iOS is a bit dodgy when it comes to mastering I can get my stuff limited to -0.2db and my levels as high as they go before going into the red, everything fine right? I get the output into my desktop daw and the levels were nowhere near how iOS were. I use final touch and audiomastering.

Unfortunately, I find that Final Touch and Audio Mastering don't always let you limit as cleanly as some of the desktop tools available. You can only push them so hard before they start distorting. So even though you're limiting to -0.2dBFS, maybe you weren't able to get as much gain reduction as say a desktop mastering plug in like Ozone or Pro-L.

Will

@Matt_Fletcher_2000 said:

Gadget live into Audio Mastering via audiobus is really great. You can see certain problems in the visual EQ page (or hear them by using the solo function on a particular frequency band) and then flick over to Gadget to address the problem at source. And of course play with track levels in Gadget while at the same time mastering the master bus output in Audio Mastering. It feels nice and quick and simple and gets round having to render and export every stem into Auria (I simply don't have the free storage for this and it commits you).

There's different schools of thought here but one very common one is 'if you're going to compress your mix, start with the compressor on the mix bus' because things change when it's all put through a compressor. I've found that when I do this I can always get louder mixes with far less compression artifacts. Not dumb loud but 'normal' loud. Being able to test and change the actual source mix as you go is a fine idea. Ultimately best to mix down and then master (just to avoid CPU overs and tiny inaudible dropped samples) but getting the mix finished this way should really help presuming your iPad can take it.

If the master output level in Audio Mastering very, very occasionally (ie once or twice in a track) hits the 'over' bar momentarily (on a drum hit coupled with a big bass sound normally) is this a big issue? Do I need to fight the gain in that frequency throughout the whole track just to be on the safe side or am I being too cautious?

Too cautious. It's protecting you from the over and just letting you know you're getting your money out of the app.

Matt_Fletcher_2000

Thanks Syrupcore. That's useful.

So here's the track in question:

https://m.soundcloud.com/matt-fletcher-2000/raven

(I've uploaded the MP3 to soundcloud, not the 50mb wav, although I know I should probably upload the wav but I'm on my phone).

In gadget I rendered to a wav and then ran this through audio mastering. With probably too conservative settings. I actually 'cured' the couple of 'ovrs' by reducing the cutoff automation a bit on the bass at the key points.

I didn't use any compression. Just the maximiser in AM, as well as EQ and stereo harmoniser.

To me it sounds like there could be more bass. Be interested in what others think about that and about the sound generally. I also think it could be louder.

There is pretty bad clicking in the section with the double bass samples which is a shame but I can't see a way round that. It's gadgets built in sounds in Abu and they do click (although I don't have the latest update which might cure that).

Would be very interested in people's opinions if anyone has 4 minutes spare to listen.

telecharge

@Matt_Fletcher_2000 said:

There is pretty bad clicking in the section with the double bass samples which is a shame but I can't see a way round that. It's gadgets built in sounds in Abu and they do click (although I don't have the latest update which might cure that).

Have you tried increasing the attack and decay? I'd be interested to hear if that works in Abu.

Halftone

adjusting the attack/decay in Abu and Bilboa never seems to help much i've found

Will

Matt, love the song. Listening through the not-awesome (but not tiny/terrible) Edirol MA-15Ds I have connected to my computer the bass seemed boomy (mostly the double but the synth bass in part two as well, though, to a lesser extent). Like in the lower mids/upper lows but that's just a guess or where I'd reach first. Kick still came through well if that helps at all. Otherwise, think the mix was really good.

Matt_Fletcher_2000

Thanks guys. The attack and decay in Abu are a bit strange.

The attack works as you'd expect, and might help. The decay is a fixed, absolute time (of about 5 seconds I believe). So if your slice is 2 seconds long, nudging the decay down a little bit does absolutely nothing. You have to take it down by three fifths for it to start having any effect. It also seems to be quite a long, smooth decay once it starts decaying. So the result is its very fiddly and not much use for micro fades to get rid of clicks at the end of samples! I'm hoping upgrading Gadget might help on the factory samples but I haven't got round to it yet.

Thanks for the feedback @syrupcore. So, boomy in a bad way. I know what you mean. Im boosting the 'hi' of the double bass using the EQ effect inside gadget - just because otherwise it sounds so muffled - so I need to address that I guess. With the bass synth its Dublin (which does tend to sound a bit boomy with its subs I find). Maybe I could bring the cutoff down a bit in Dublin. Or reduce the EQ as you suggest in AM.

Urg. I find mastering (on bass particularly) so hard. It seems to hugely differ in terms of how it sounds on different speakers / headphones. It's such a black art .

Jose_Bee

@Tarekith said:

Unfortunately, I find that Final Touch and Audio Mastering don't always let you limit as cleanly as some of the desktop tools available. You can only push them so hard before they start distorting. So even though you're limiting to -0.2dBFS, maybe you weren't able to get as much gain reduction as say a desktop mastering plug in like Ozone or Pro-L.

I wonder if you can any better results in Auria using the Pro line plugins?

Tarekith

Without a doubt, most definitely, I say yes.