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Gadget - sustain notes between scenes
Went through the manual, checked the (barely active) Korg forum, googled like a bastard, no luck so far. I'm working on a track where one scene is one 6/4 bar followed by a scene going back into 4/4. I wanted a bass note played on the last beat of the 6/4 bar to sustain into the beginning of the 4/4 scene, but it keeps cutting dead when the scene changes. Please help!
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I've been pretty mad at this myself. I wish there was a 'linear' mode in Gadget too into which we could 'record' the performance by muting/unmuting parts, but I'm guessing Korg will just reply with 'Export to Abelton'...
I'm really fond of the Yamaha's Music Sequencer on the iOS where you can create parts quite similar to Gadget and then 'drag'n'drop' the parts/scenes onto the time-line for more precise editing. This makes it easy to create an looped arrangements and then play the longer parts live, and it's very easy to merge parts for overlapping notes too...
@Samu. Thanks...so it can't be done? Seems crazy on such a generously featured app. I installed yamaha's music sequencer when it was free, haven't looked at it yet. But I know how to use Gadget and the sounds are great. It's so close to being superb. But I could say that about a few ios apps.
If it can be done I would be very interested too since I love to 'jam' over arrangements and it's not so funny when the lead sound cut's off during a scene change...
Any of the @korg devs hang around here? This seems such a basic piece of functionality. I could weep.
I guess you could copypasta together an extra scene to act as a transition before switching to the 4/4 section again?
Hardly elegant I admit.
This is a actually one of my main problems with loop/scene type workflows. (Ableton included)
It also becomes a problem when a sound with a slow attack needs to be triggered at the end of a previous bar in order to hear it where you want it.
Maybe it's the price you pay for having things nicely organised in measures to some extent.
@bonso not sure how that would work. The extra scene would have to play, no? So the note on the last beat of the scene would still cut off. I'm currently working on an extremely inelegant solution, will get back to you if it works.
Yup, I find myself using transitional scenes in Gadget to deal with these types of issues. Not too often, but enough.
From a dev standpoint, this specific issue may not take much to address, but I'm guessing these guys have a long list of requests like this. We love Gadget for its simplistic workflow, as its sometimes the app's limitations that allow us to get a lot done quickly. Sometimes I find myself rewriting around some of these limitations to a better result, or just live with an awkward workaround.
@bonso But Ableton does give you linear tracks that can run concurrently with the loop workflow.
@rad3d, thanks for that, but won't a transitional scene just insert a stray extra bar into the piece? I'm confused. I don't have a problem with limitations, I agree that they often enhance creativity. However, being constrained to the point that you can't tie notes between bars seems nuts. I guess this is something Loopy Masterpiece will be able to handle, @Michael? A loop/scene based workflow with an option to record a track in a more linear way? But I love staying within an app like gadget, so I hope this can be solved for the short term. I'm still hoping someone will post a solution...please...
@iansainsbury I'm a recent Gadgeteer so I'm a bit inexperienced with the exact process involved, but yes I meant add an extra scene that you could copy and paste the relevant parts from both sections into.
It might have to be a strange length to replace part of the section leading into the sustained note, or might require you shorten the lead-in section ?
kludge
@rad3d Yep that's a fair point but it's a awkward/strange coexistence!
Transitional scene could be a combination of the entire scenes of both that you're trying to tie together. Seeing as you're dealing with 2 scenes with different time signatures, it may mean making an odd timed transitional segment that's the last bar or two of the first scene and the first bar or two of the second, then chop the bars from the first and second scene, then insert the transitional.
All conjecture as to how this will work with you particular arrangement, since I don't understand if we're talking about something that happens once or repeatedly in your song.
Another option is to get things close, then export tracks and finish the piece in a daw that allows you linear access to that track.
Or create a new instance of your bass gadget that has a ton of delay, and hit this gadget instance for just that note.
Maybe someone will weigh in with something else.
Not at all. Primarily being a guitarist, I found it great to be able to compose in loop mode in Ableton, then add guitar and vocal tracks linearly. I thought it was nearly perfect.
On a more positive note, all of this is making me want to try Ableton properly. @rad3d, I'm a piano player primarily, but I have really enjoyed adopting a more loop-based approach on the iPad. But piano comping and extended melodies need a linear approach. I wish Gadget could do both and I will try Ableton, but it makes me crave an Abletonish app for iOS.
I suppose Gadget can kinda do linear-type overdubs if you are willing to duplicate stuff within a scene to play over.
(upto 16 bars, probably possible to use half tempo to fake 32 bars.)
It wont solve some issues and it's all still in sections ultimately but could be useful for some.
@rad3d That sounds slick and I do enjoy Live for building musical sketches in a similar way, but I find it much less appealing when trying to record from several sources at once or when wishing to improvise on the session view whilst tracking longer sections in the arrange view. I guess it's all about how you tend to work, but I would welcome a more unified approach or one-screen solution from Ableton. Or at least an arrange page that has the controls on the regular side of the screen!
I've had this issue in Gadget.
No easy answer if you must have a note last across a change of scene.
First thing I'd to try to make the scenes longer or rearrange the scenes so this doesn't happen.
Next is to trigger a new note but try to merge the off note with the new on note as much as possible do you can't tell. So using a long release on the ending note and a slow attack on the new note (you can automate the ADSR so the slow attack doesn't need to be the case for the original on note). Delay (if the gadget lets you) and reverb will no doubt help.
You could also try using a duplicate of the gadget. With a kind of joining note covering the join (but not tried this myself).
It's trial and error. You could 'practice' in a less time consuming way by looping the same scene with the second note at the start of the scene until it sounds right. Then duplicate to the following scene and delete the appropriate notes.
For me it's usually for a long pad or drone type sound. I've got it to sound pretty seamless with the right mix of release and attack (and being careful that any automation runs across the two scenes seemlessly).
It's a limitation of gadget really. A 'tie' feature would be nice.
@Matt_Fletcher_2000 Well, You've obviously put a lot of effort into addressing this, going to fairly Heath Robinson lengths to make it appear that a sound is sustaining between scenes. Still just seems crazy to me that it's not possible to do it. So unmusical! Come one, Korg, I've been a customer since my 01/w in 1991! You can sort this!
A not uncommon theme out here. I'm recently new to IOS music making, and spent the last 3 years using Ableton. It is still one of the most flexible solutions available, without a doubt. But, the portability of the iPad has me writing a lot more than before, limitations and all.
Build the track with everything except the sustained note. Export or AudioBus into a DAW like Cubasis or Auria. Hook up Gadget to a new track. Mute everything else in Gadget or start a new project. Play along and record the sustain into the DAW.
@TedBPhx, yep, that's another solution I'm considering. Thanks. Kinda defeats the "stay in the app" and get stuff done but, hey, at least it's a workaround
I thought the most notable feature of Gadget's sequencer is that you can record notes and automation across multiple scenes. Just turn off scene looping.
@shortbus, well, yeah, but you can't sustain notes...give it a try.