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Midi Clock how do you deal with it?
MIDI Clock, what's your master, how do have it set up? DAW, hardware MIDI clock, Audio Interface clock. iOS clock...? Right now I'm thinking to have iOS synth or sequencer sync to Ableton (though I hear Ableton clock sucks and of course it only sends clock messages with transport running). Anyways, what do you guys do for sync?
Comments
Loopy HD has send that the most apps that claim to have midi sync seem to be able to read. A universal midi sync on iOS that works i suspect is sadly just a wish for the future right now
Yes I agree. MIDI clock would be nice to have.
Anyone know this: https://itunes.apple.com/ca/app/midibus/id648856167?mt=8 ?
I think maybe I should go hardware clock. It just be nice to have one solid signal locked in for everything whether iOS, Mac AU or hardware.
I use Loopy for the time being. Best MIDI clock on iOS by far. Kinda wish @Michael would just do a standalone for the Clock that was AB-compatible. Or something of an equivalent...
Yes, I've used MidiBus as a clock and it's a great one. I have used MidiBus, MidiFlow, and nordbeat 2 (free) and they all drive MIDI sync perfectly well. Loopy is well-regarded as a MIDI clock source. You have many excellent choices on iPad.
Honestly, there is a limit to how good MIDI sync can get. The way it works is that the master sends 24 messages per quarter note (that's only 6 per 16th) and the slave must use the information from when those messages arrive to drive its tempo. The slave must do some level of prediction (which can be wrong if the data comes in lumpy or if the tempo is changing). If it does no prediction, but simply triggers after it sees the correct number of messages, it will always be late (but at least predictably late, so this is not a terrible strategy for a slave if there is control over latency in the clock source).
In other words, I wouldn't obsess about the clock because it's way easier for the master to be correct than the slave. It's easy to build a fine master and it's easy to build a lousy slave. If you see MIDI clock problems, the trouble is likely in the slave. (Not that it's impossible to make a bad clock. It's been done.) Pick a solution that can get its clock to your destinations with the least lag you can manage.
What I'd really like to see from a MIDI clock is a latency setting PER output to each slave. I think computer DAWs have that. Not sure if iPad DAWs do.
That looks good but I wonder if you can trigger it from within the transport controls inside a DAW like Cubasis or Auria. It would be great to hit record inside the DAW and have everything sync up.
Cubasis has its own clock. I've played with it driving Diode-108, even changing tempo on the fly. I had no trouble with it. Auria has given me grief, but I'm sure Auria Pro will have the clock straightened out.
Also looking now at MidiFlow which might do what I want.
MIDI Clock on iOS = http://i.imgur.com/oujhz.gif
Loopy into samplr is ticking reasonably well. Not perfect...I jam extensively at least once every couple of days and these 2 stay put, even when starting and stopping. The lag is only noticeable when two hihat parts play together which result in a bit of a flam. Probably not quite right for big shows but I've successfully used it at small events with a live drummer
So out of interest, given continuous clock sending is so resource intensive - and inaccurate - why not just set the tempos in the 2 apps to be the same and get them to trigger their start at the same time. Then stop sending the clock. Or just send it every second or something just to pull them in line.
It seems like continuous midi clock sending causes more issues than it solves and tbh most apps seem to run pretty steadily once they are running (this is based on me manually starting one on the beat of the other one).
This then frees up resources for other midi messages etc...
The idea is not a bad one for stuff that has static tempo. Less so for things that slow down and speed up. I guess when developers try to make it work they'd rather do it properly I.e. Suitable for all uses. The problem is it's gonna take time. The good news is that things are improving, slowly...but they are.
You can't really send the MIDI clock every once in a while. If you're sending it or receiving it, you have to be committed to it, because you have to count them to know where you are. It's really not that much overhead. If computers were fast enough to do it back when MIDI beat clock first appeared, they are plenty fast enough now. It's small overhead compared with audio processing per sample.
Well, from what I herd in the past, a dedicated MIDI hardware clock is the way to go. I'm just looking at the cheapest option.
Holiday, let me know which one you get.
Loopy, Funkbox, MIDIFlow or external hardware all work well for me.
I do a lot of live looping, or at least live improv, so my clock source really must be my looper. In my case, I loop with Mobius VST, use MIDI Yoke to pipe Mobius clock to Ableton, and then let Ableton send that synced clock everywhere else I need it, including over to my iPad. It's incredibly stable, especially in Live 9. How the receiving app responds to the stable Ableton clock can be a different story
That's mostly an issue for iOS apps though, within Ableton all of my synced VSTs work flawlessly.
Beginning a couple of years ago, I was seriously ready to try a new looper and have a setup that used an iPad looper as the master for my laptop + ipad rig, but there just isn't one that performs as well as what I described above.
But if the goal is a clock for DAW recording workflow (vs live looping), I'd bet on an external hardware clock being light years ahead in stability and jitter vs. any iOS app.
I didn't qualify it but I probably should have: if you want a rock solid clock, use an old drum machine. By far, my most solid clock source is the alesis sr-16 drum machine or mmt-8 sequencer. You can skip the sounds and just use it as a clock master. Soh. Lid.
Curious about Beatstep Pro: http://www.arturia.com/beatstep-pro/overview
actually maybe I'm thinking about this the wrong way. What I want is tempo and transport sync between DAW, hardware synths arps and iOs.
Will do.
Hello,
I'm back with this problem...
I love to have loopy as master clock, because it's so easy to control (assign a knob to the tempo, takes 2 seconds...)
But with Genome and just a Bleep box, it's not accurate, while you changing screens, or move a bit into apps, it's ot perfect...
I have alreasy an Ipad 4, does an Ipad Air 2 would make things better ? A higher latence ?
An external sync ?
http://www.roland.com/products/sbx-1/
Or also, the beatstep pro ???
http://www.arturia.com/beatstep-pro/overview
But if the slaves are "badly" sync, it's not a problem with the master clock ? (because the sbx-1 is very expensive, and I can make this with Loopy, so...)
Did someone handle a descent clock ?
Thanks for your feedbacks...
From what I've herd a dedicated hardware clock is the best. I've been testing out a TR-8 as source to good effect. There is this also: http://www.perfectcircuitaudio.com/products-by-brand?brand=983
Midibridge and use the network session as localhost if apps don't listen.