Audiobus - audio problem thread (not updating)

Igneous1

The original thread doesn't seem to be updating: (I don't know if it's locked in some manner ?)
https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/9593/audiobus-disappearing-audio-problem#latest

I added a resume of points that I gleaned from the thread. I think it may well be of interest to a number of people here.

solador78

If a user turns everything up, then plugs everything in, thereby creating a nasty feedback loop with the ipad's internal mic, nothing will ever work proper again in AB until the user bites the bullet and reboots the machine. All complaints about anything that happened after the feedback and before the reboot is completely invalid.

Igneous1

@solador78

Your comments aren't relevant to the resume of very useful points that came from a wider discussion in that thread. Which I'II copy here:

Just to reiterate:

It's essentially Apple's fault as AB was working fine (iOS 7 ?) before Apple introduced their IAA thing.

Things will improve when Apple sort this out and if apps are including the most recent version(s) of the AB SDK that's the best that can be expected currently.

Actual devices being used is less significant.

AB are doing the best they can on their side of things and things are improving.

There aren't any apps which are more susceptible to audio drop-outs etc. than others.

Am I correct (or not) on these points ?

I'm surprised there isn't more interest in this thread seeing as AB is so fundamental to the way a lot of people work. I think @Monzo's point about developers clamouring to accommodate AB remote when there are still issues with AB is a good one.

Jocphone

Is there no way to turn off the internal mic?

If not I wouldn't have thought it difficult for Audiobus to detect a runaway feedback condition and take some action to prevent it.

solador78

No you're not correct. Some apps are more susceptible than others, which is why the other user threw a temper tantrum. The big issue with that thread is that the user was demanding professional level support so that he can take any number of audio toys into a "professional setting" and have them work perfectly the first time, without any sort of rehearsal or test on a house P.A. and without having to reboot after making a rookie mistake, so that he's not wasting the band/label's money because of his lack of preparedness.

Everybody knows that ab on ios 8 doesn't work perfectly, but to cheekily question the very existence of ab and motives of developers without expecting or even allowing dissenting opinions with calling for outright bannings is a bit much.

Igneous1

Okay, to be helpful to others here, which apps are more suspectible, (in your view) ?

I will contest your statement that 'everyone one knows that AB on iOS 8 doesn't work perfectly', surely this is what we are trying to determine, which will be a different experience for differing users ?

Jocphone

Try and refrain from personal attacks @solador78.

We mostly try and keep the forum civil so that people feel happy to contribute and ask questions without feeling someone is going to jump down their throat.

solador78

@Igneous1 said:
Okay, to be helpful to others here, which apps are more suspectible, (in your view) ?

Monzo wanted 2 tiers of apps: 1) Gadget. 2) Not-Gadget

[Deleted User]

@Igneous1 said:
The original thread doesn't seem to be updating: (I don't know if it's locked in some manner ?)

Yeah, I added a reply just now but it's not appearing in the latest updates list. I guess it's being hidden from the forum front page.

@solador78 said:
All complaints about anything that happened after the feedback and before the reboot is completely invalid.

I didn't get any feedback, if you read what I posted you'll see I've written that I had the mixer too loud and the volume nearly blew my external speaker out. You're also conveniently ignoring that I stated all the apps I'd been having problems with....before the volume was set too loud for the external speaker....were working absolutely fine in standalone/background mode even after I'd had my amp too loud. They also worked fine via Audioshare - the issues were directly related to using them in Audiobus - even Tonestack works fine in an Audioshare IAA chain.

Rebooting makes no difference, the problems are still there, problems confirmed by sebastian and others, and anyway I reported the issue before the amp thing. Fairly obvious if you read through the thread properly.

@solador78 said:
the user was demanding professional level support so that he can take any number of audio toys into a "professional setting" and have them work perfectly the first time

I'm not 'demanding' anything, I've submitted a genuine issue I'm having with some apps while using Audiobus to the forum support section. Am I not allowed to do this? Have I overstepped the mark by reporting an issue?

I'm not sure why you keep attacking me this way - and you seem to ignore anyone else that has reported issues but instead single me out for abuse.

@solador78 said:
calling for outright bannings is a bit much.

You are completely twisting what I posted. I made a suggestion that there could be a two-tiered list for AB apps - those that are fully compatible - such as Gadget, and those that work with it, but have a few issues. I haven't suggested 'banning' anything. It's just a suggestion to make things clearer for potential customers, and anyway sebastian has already said he wasn't going to do it.

@Jocphone said:
Try and refrain from personal attacks solador78.

We mostly try and keep the forum civil so that people feel happy to contribute and ask questions without feeling someone is going to jump down their throat.

Thank you

solador78

@Jocphone said:
Try and refrain from personal attacks solador78.

We mostly try and keep the forum civil so that people feel happy to contribute and ask questions without feeling someone is going to jump down their throat.

This all started when I asked him a very reasonable question and he jumped down my throat, called me a troll and then petitioned to have me banned. All along i was just trying to help him reboot his machine and also express my opinion that his proposal to start WWIII between AB and AB-compatible apps was short-sighted at best, but mostly just a dickish move.

Igneous1

@solador78, Look, I couldn't care less about your spat with @monzo. If you've got anything useful to say, feel free to do so. This thread is about something far more relevant to people here !

solador78

@monzo said:
When I create multiple channels in AB, every so often adding an app will cause a feedback sound or more usually, stop all audio.

You didn't say that to start the thread? Rebooting does make all the difference.

I'm not 'demanding' anything, I've submitted a genuine issue I'm having with some apps while using Audiobus to the forum support section. Am I not allowed to do this? Have I overstepped the mark by reporting an issue?

You reporting an issue has never been the problem. I'm even agreeing with you that there is an issue. You really need to step back and look at the situation outside of your narrow worldview. If AB were to implement your proposed sanctions and relegate many apps to a second tier, you can count on there being a massive battle royale occurring between developers. To even propose such an idea is offensive.

I'm not sure why you keep attacking me this way - and you seem to ignore anyone else that has reported issues but instead single me out for abuse.

Check the original thread again. No attacks from my side, it's all you buddy!

solador78

@monzo said:
I haven't suggested 'banning' anything.

You tried to get me banned or did you forget?

Jocphone

@solador78 well, we all have biases while reading and interpreting other people's writing but you seem to go overboard in misrepresenting what Monzo has said. I can't see that this is helping get anything resolved.

[Deleted User]

@solador78 said:
just a dickish move.

I'm out of here, I've really got better things to do with my life.

RUST( i )K

wow...................just wow

Here are some recommendations for thread:

1- masturbate
2- take a benzo
3- reboot your day

solador78

@Jocphone said:
solador78 well, we all have biases while reading and interpreting other people's writing but you seem to go overboard in misrepresenting what Monzo has said. I can't see that this is helping get anything resolved.

Horse's Mouth:

When I create multiple channels in AB, every so often adding an app will cause a feedback sound or more usually, stop all audio.

From a customers perspective this makes making an informed purchase difficult - if an app isn't AB compatible, and listed in your own app then I won't buy it. But as a lot of the ones that are listed aren't fully compatible I'm now stuck with a bunch of apps I can't use this way. I wouldn't have bought Tonestack, for example, if I'd known it'd screech and need reloading every time I used it.

Thanks but I think you should remove the apps mentioned from your list as they are definitely not fully compatible, and it's misleading customers into thinking they are.

I just tried putting my iPad though an external amp - I've got a studio rehearsal on Friday so wanted to check everything worked through a PA. I loaded up DM1 into AB, but it was very quiet so I turned up the mixer - big mistake. I then loaded in Gadget which when played nearly blew the speakers out - turns out DM1 had a new audio issue which was muting the sound. Leaving that one, I loaded in Elastic Drums instead. Screech time again, and this time I had to quit AB and all apps to stop it. And now I can't get a sound from Elastic Drums via AB, so the iPad probably needs a complete reboot.

I can't use your app in a professional setting with random issues like this. Maybe booting the offending apps off your list will force developers to sort out their problems, but I can't go into a studio or use Audiobus in a live setting with things the way they are.

Maybe a two tiered list would work better - a 'fully compatible' section for apps such as Gadget, and another for those that only provide basic support. I think it's time to weed the problem apps out from your list, otherwise customers might start thinking it's an Audiobus issue.

How about when an app is reported as having issues on here, are you still going to list them as being fully supported? Tonestack shouldn't be on your list. I've just tested it as an IAA effect via Audioshare without any issues, so the 'screeching' seems directly related to using it with Audiobus.

I don't, I've never used an iPad in a gig and never plugged this one into a mixer until today, that was more of a test of my mixer than the iPad anyway.

wigglelights

This "screech" being discussed - is this actually feedback from the built in mic? Technically the mic needs to be listening to its own output for feedback to start right? In monzo's case with the mixer I might expect it, but it seems this is happening to most with headphones, which would mean it's an internal routing. It's like if iOS doesn't see AB properly it defaults to the mic?
I see in settings all the audio apps are set to have access to the mic. Would turning that off help I'm wondering or would that kill AB? I.e. Not let iOS jump to that default? (I'll try on my own later...)

Jocphone

@solador78 Since I was never called to the bar I won't be picking through every idea in @monzo's discussion with @sebastian that you managed to misinterpret. I'm going to take a break from the forum for a few days too as this isn't conducive to any kind of music making.

solador78

@wigglelights said:
This "screech" being discussed - is this actually feedback from the built in mic? Technically the mic needs to be listening to its own output for feedback to start right? In monzo's case with the mixer I might expect it, but it seems this is happening to most with headphones, which would mean it's an internal routing. It's like if iOS doesn't see AB properly it defaults to the mic?
I see in settings all the audio apps are set to have access to the mic. Would turning that off help I'm wondering or would that kill AB? I.e. Not let iOS jump to that default? (I'll try on my own later...)

Yes, the screech is the problem and it can happen many different ways (i.e. pluggin/unplugging an audio interface). Nothing will work after a screech until the ipad is rebooted.

Sebastian

I've sunk the last thread (didn't close it but it doesn't get pushed to the front page once someone posts something new) because I didn't want to keep you guys from talking to each other but I didn't feel the tone of the thread was getting better. Looks like it's happened with this same thread as well. If you you want to attack one another, do it via direct message or email or anything else.
If you want to have a meaningful discussion about what's going on and how to make things better, stop the personal insults and accusations. I mean all of you, no matter who started it. This topic is hard enough to shed light onto as it is without that. This is my last warning.

With regards to the information in that thread: Yes, we had to switch from Mach Ports to Inter App Audio because apparently Mach Ports was a inter-thread communication method that was shut down by Apple, because it was deemed insecure. I applaud Apple's efforts to make the platform more secure. Sadly our nice, fast and simple communication method that the initial Audiobus ran on was a victim of it. Let's just face it: making music on iDevices is not as important as not having your data stolen from you by apps using loopholes in malicious ways.

Now if you read between the lines you can see how carefully I'm touching this topic. There is a reason for this.

Having said that I want to emphasise that I really think Apple cares about making iOS a good platform for audio and that as far as I can tell they do fix bugs and genuinely listen to third party developers pointing them out.

wigglelights

I have read that even plugging and unplugging the headphones can create instability.

My question is - is this screech actually feedback or something else? If it is feedback, is it from the mic and how is it getting routed back into itself? Or perhaps is the the audio subsystem crashing?

I'm just curious if anyone knows the nuts and bolts of what is generating the "screech".

Sebastian

@wigglelights said:
I have read that even plugging and unplugging the headphones can create instability.

My question is - is this screech actually feedback or something else? If it is feedback, is it from the mic and how is it getting routed back into itself? Or perhaps is the the audio subsystem crashing?

I'm just curious if anyone knows the nuts and bolts of what is generating the "screech".

The screech is a bug in Inter App Audio. It's Bug number 18793520 - IAA buzz when launching some apps and I have good reason to hope it's going to go away in an upcoming update to iOS 8 or iOS 9.

wigglelights

@Sebastian - many thanks! Man, I hadn't looked through that bug list for a while - good view into how really frikkin complicated it is for you to make AB work. I really appreciate your dedication!

And thanks for passing along your optimism for the next iOS release!

Igneous1

Thanks for that insight Sebastian,

I was just trying to bring things out into the open as I don't like to rely on hearsay and the like. Interesting article...

Moderndaycompiler

@Sebastian said:
Now if you read between the lines you can see how carefully I'm touching this topic. There is a reason for this.

Thank you for sharing that link Sebastian. Very informative read.
All I can say is a BIG Thank You to all the wonderful developers of all the apps we passionately discuss and critque daily here on this forum...