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Comments
i think"genius" is somebody who absolutely changes the game.. pushes boundaries on large scale somewherr where nobody was before and not just within some niche musical buble, but really genre-wide
sorry but i don't think people like amon tobin, aphex twin, liam howlett and other mentioned here or in other threads deserve to be called geniuses.. were they innovative, creative, in some particular subgenre of electronic music ? Yeah definitely.. Made they lot of interesting music ? Yeah definitely. Do they deserve big respect ? Yes, of course.
Were they wide - range accepted geniuses who pushed music on whole new level ? I don't think so.
Geniuses were Mozart, Bach, Beethoven.. It just needs time to see that work of artists persist, transcendents through multiple generations. It'a too soon to call geniuses authors which music is there max few decades.
Our grandchildren will decide which of modern artists deserves to be called genius. My personal candidates are Vangelis, Ennio Morricone, JMJarre (maybe). But time will tell.
We should not overuse term "genius". It should be reserves for somebody who shines like supernova.
@dendy how many genre's of music were available when Mozart, Bach and Beethoven were around? How many different 'ways', in that day and age, were people able to even create a sonic palette like is possible today? Bach might not have been able to create insane music in different genre's because...he might have just not been talented in that area. Maybe his sound design would be shit! We don't know. He wasn't inventing new instruments to be played that sounded completely different than what was available in an orchestra. Their sound choices were put in a box, they stretched that box as far as it could go, but NOW, there are people that use all sorts of techniques to create other worlds with their sound creation abilities. Those guys really never did that like is done today.
You just can't compare then to now unless you compare "box for box"...like...
Is Bach better than Hans Zimmer? or Tom Holkenborg? They have taken that same box and made it waaaaay bigger by having created new "instruments" to be used in the orchestra that simply weren't possible then. They have innovated the orchestral genre in industry defining ways. Well...Bach and Mozart weren't creating music like Amon Tobin...at all. Not close.
The work of Mozart, Bach, Beethoven dominated the world "at the time" and was "the popular music". Now...there are soooo many different genres. Why would genius be limited to "the orchestral world". That basically writes off all the great Jazz musicians that are flat out incredible.
We should not limit creativity of new genres based on the limitations of old ones.
In the book "Think Like a Freak", the authors told us that a genius is someone who changed the game in a domain where zillion of people try to find the best solution before them.
Per example, if you literally reinvent the wheel, you are a genius.
In their book, the authors talked about a guy who found a better way to win a hot-dog eating competition. When 10 millions people tried to find a good way of doing X and failed and you find a good way of doing X, you are a genius (according to them).
But he was shit at sound design! 😂😂😂
Supermodified is my favorite Amon Tobin album and has had a lot of influence on me.
But Miles Davis just as much.
I listened to Amon Tobin Supermodfied and got a Akai s3000 a year later.
If that Album was released today i probably would not be that impressed.
But i am listening that album still today because it stands for many memories.
What about not listen to it at all if you judge any artist based on 1 minute of listening.
Define genius. Are the top50 artists on spotify genius?
I think Amon 20 years ago was more genius than Kanye West ever will be.
And i know a lot of people including Kanye will disagree with me.
You are what you like and you are what you dislike. Its both equally valuable input that will eventually determine your output.
And it's a waste if time to discuss any writer when the other opinion is based on reading half a page. 😆
I don’t know what genius is. To me niche is value added. To me chords, catchy melodies and standard rhythms are boring after a minute. The way he found common ground and merged some of my favourite genres is outstanding in my book.
Considering that most people even years (or a decade) later can barely appreciate or utilise MPE (or expression in general) and most people who can wouldn’t be able to come up or achieve anything close or anything unique...
I mean he came up with some of the most unique sounds I ever heard... whoever is able to program a Haken Continuum and get actual results is definitely special.
ISAM in Manchester was one of the best audiovisual experience in my life.
This pretty much sums it up for me as well. His sound design and how he uses those sounds in his own music in a unique way is, to me, groundbreaking.
And the proof of that was the ISAM tour. It was a singular memory I will never forget.
I don’t think either of them is exceptional enough to be called a genius. Their work is ultimately derivative of what has come before, and neither of them made great strides in forwarding conventional compositional standards or instrumental virtuosity (or any other standard for measuring musical exceptionalism).
We’ll never get to consensus on applying the word genius to most artists if they haven’t achieved something truly exceptional.
As I said earlier, the bar for qualifying as a genius has been lowered considerably in recent decades so that it’s now ridiculously easy to achieve it with almost no one batting an eyelid.
Are the top50 artists on spotify genius?
Hot-Dogs, Doritos and chocolate bars are extremely popular, but objectivly not great food.
Pretty much this. Plus music is highly subjective art, definitely more subjective than any visual art, so it’s very easy to think somebody is genius just because his music resonates with my personal musical preferences.
As I said, Tobin is not my musical cup of tea. For example Plaid is for me MUCH more interesting music, where i am constantly asking myself during listening “how tf they did this ?!”
Would I call them geniuses ? No.
Or State Azure. It’s behind my comprehension how somebody can make generative patch like this, which creates 4 hours of music :
https://www.youtube.com/live/8V71sATDTqs?si=sCH4i2nsvC6X53R3
Would i call him genius ? No. Probably
)
Vangelis, Morricone - those two fulfils my personal definition of word “genius”. Also Freddie Mercury. Also Giorgio Moroder. Kraftwerk. Jarre. Tangerine Dream. Jimi Hendrix.
I think neither Amon Tobin, nor Aphex Twin, nor Liam Howlett are in same league like those.
But.
It’s music. Highly subjective personal concept. So, it may be it’s again just my personal subjective reality…
It’s not necessarily my cup of tea either but I listen and I hear how he assimilates the spirit of jazz into electronic music and it creates an impression. I believe there is true innovation in that album, regardless if one “likes” it. One man’s opinion, as they say.
As we all said and know, musical taste is subjective, but just wanting to drop a track here which in me personally triggered those "genius" vibes when I first heard it in 2005 or so (warning, nobody listens to this kind of music 😄)
The way this combines perfect sound and FX design, classical and energetic EDM elements, together with the arrangement, is genius "to me".
Compared to me, everyone is a genius.
They have not dropped the bar low enough for me either.
I dig him
Check out his 2007 single Bloodstone- (EP of the same name) The highly celebrated “Succession” theme is a pretty direct rip-off.
or am i crazy
anyway i dig him
That’s a nice one! Is the Succession theme (which I love!) really a direct rip-off? Definitely they are very similar but some kind of minor classical piano soundtrack vibe with beats is hardly exactly a novel combo. Maybe though!
I linked to the ISAM tour YouTube video up above, but the ISAM album is a sound design dream, imo.
maybe they are both derived from yet a third, something their big sister used to put on the hifi…(“hifi”…showing my age)
Out from Out Where is a classic. I'm not sure which DAW he used to sequence his Akai S6000.
Yello are the people who blew me away with their playful and innovative use of sampling back in the day, the first time I ever heard the like. And that was 1985:
Insouciant excellence is the mark of true genius.
I like what I have heard of Amon Tobin’s work. But if ‘genius’ includes the concept of ‘pioneering’… ? Well, he was 13 when Oh Yeah charted. Kind of hard now to explain how absolutely blooming mahoosive this sounded on the dance floor back then in ‘85. And it still holds up, Sui generis, only Yello have ever and will ever make a noise like this, they own it. Another sign of genius. Though, of course, imho , ymmv, and other modern prevarications may apply.
And four years before them, before even sampling technology was really a thing, there was this, using tape machines, and the techniques of old school musique concretists :
Standing on the shoulders of giants, etcetera.
Just sayin’…
@Montreal_Music Yes he is a genius. Been collecting his music since the NinjaTune days and his music continues to evolve in a good way.
Yeah, there was a lot of innovative sampling in the 80s that paved the way for artists in the last few decades, especially as hardware started to improve. I loved Oh Yeah when I first heard it - definitely one of those moments that heralded a big change in music.
Sample manipulation has been around way longer than most people imagine (I’m sure you of all people know that!), so it surprises me when I hear people talk about very modern music being broadly innovative when it owes a huge debt to many people who have come before.
And definitely a huge thumbs up for Eno and Byrne. It’s hard to believe that the album was released in 1981.
excellent post
Same. I was blown away first time i heard it, and still to this day i love it
So genius might be wrong word, but definitely someone who made a mark on many music lovers 😉
This brings back memories. I loved their music, especially the "One Second" album. A rollercoaster of senses.
I’ll take Yello over Amon Tobin too
If you like combination of classical music and EDM elements, then maybe Deadmau5 album “Where’s the drop ?” will interest you … Dope stuff, trully epic, lot of energy…
"Genius" is so overused... especially on this Forum lately
Thanks, will check that out!