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Google's VEO 3 was just released, and with it, apparently, fresh waves of angst amongst sound and film professionals.
Thoughts?
"I’m an award winning composer and have been creating music successfully for commercials since the 80’s. My last big job was two months ago and I guess that’s it now. Creatives, directors, editors, camera people, set designers, lighting designers, food specialists, actors, speakers, film canteens, musicians and singers… all redundant. The last industrial revolution still had people involved in whatever new technology was developed making a living. It’s only a matter of time - actually it’s already happening - that Ai composes its own prompts based on context. This technology - as fantastic as it is - will decimate a whole swathe of the creative workforce. Pandora’s box has been opened and it’s too late to stop the inevitable. The bombardment of stuff already attacking our senses is already at such a high pitch that we are in danger of sensory overload. Non of this will prevent me from creating music but the idea of financial security through my endeavors has gone up in smoke. Good luck to all of us😎 "
Comments
My thoughts are as follows...AI should be used for cleaning my flat, folding and hanging my laundry, and taking out my trash. You know, the shit that gets in the way of creativity. Not for replacing creative work.
I don't know if this guy is actually a music professional. But what he clearly is, is a YouTuber who wants you to click and watch his videos. That's what this is about. The content is irrelevant. I wouldn't spend a second listening to this guy.
Yeah I didn't bother clicking the video. No time for that shit. Only dropped my opinion about AI. Okay, back to my music dungeon I go. 😂
The video is about industry, production, jobs, money and so on, not "superior creativity."
When it's good enough and cheap enough, not when it's better, it's use will become maximized and affect the way and extent people make a living and how much competition they will have trying to do so. If I and everybody on my block can produce something 90% the quality of Disney (random example; not saying Disney is anything that great these days) and without spending millions of dollars, Disney is in trouble. Even though they can use the same tools the field is democratized; "any Joe Shmo" couldn't dream to compete with Disney 5 years ago; that is no longer true.
Should is an interesting word, but it probably has little to do with what will happen to the industry. Whether jobs, thriving industries, and similar stuff is replaced will be judged by history, not ethics.
"I didn't look at X and here's what I think of it."
Not looking at the latest tech or stereotyping it is fine as far as it goes, but doesn't exactly commend us as minimally credible analysts of it. I don't blame anyone for not looking these days as there is a lot of click baity stuff, but actual major advances are still possible and will continue to be actual.
We're a bit desensitized of revolution talk to the point that if something did take another giant step we might not notice.
@UrbanNinja it's entirely possible to be educated on a subject and have an opinion about it without indulging in sensationalist Youtube videos that are making money for someone.
In any case, people keep saying the sky is falling, but the public appetite for human-made art is only growing. AI is a dead end. Hopefully YouTube goes extinct along with it.
Sure, there is sensationalism, as I just said, but new apps come out too, and one just did.
It is certainly possible to be educated on a subject without looking at videos, but when someone admits they haven't looked at something new they aren't among the folk who are educated about it.
Sure, but that doesn't dictate what will be the most ubiquitous form in ten years.
Frank Zappa once remarked that art is what's in the frame.
@UrbanNinja
I have no idea what kind of convoluted word salad you're trying to feed me, but it isn't working. I used to use AI to generate album covers to slap some text on top of. @offbrands called me out. I balked at first, until I did my own thorough research to make my own conclusions. "Minimally credible", sure, okay. (Sarcasm)
I stopped using AI. At best it's "cheating", and at worst it's stealing. Plus it's no good for the environment. Training AI to scrape what others have done is energy-intensive. Meaning it requires a lot of electricity consumption, which means more greenhouse gas emissions and water usage.
But oh please, sir, do continue speaking about the "virtues" of using AI to "create" animations "that can rival Disney" while trying to call me "uneducated". 🙄😂 Your incredulous bollocks opinions are funny to me.
Never said it was "virtuous to use AI" or whether anyone should use it. Never said you were uneducated about AI.
If you want to analyze something someone said make sure they said it first.
“The computer can't tell you the emotional story. It can give you the exact mathematical design, but what's missing is the eyebrows.“ FZ
Zappa was the best.
It's the eyebrows, though, that VEO3 is after getting now.
Interesting points, @UrbanNinja - I'm sure you realized this would ellicit a varied amount of opinions. I agree with your realistic understanding of the way it is, even as it's border-lining on cynical - it's hard to not be given the subject.
AI, is always going to be a hot topic on forums with creatives.
I can say that with experience as @jwmmakerofmusic mentioned.
(apologies again about that, I can be a bit bullheaded 😅)
Anecdotally, I've lost all of my freelancing audio gigs to AI.
Granted, I'm not in the industry and make little to no effort to market myself, so a bit of my own fault.
If I don't mention that part there, taking blame, then the starting sentence in this paragraph, sounds more authorative, as if there isn't any possible self identifying rationales as to why maybe I haven't been getting jobs or getting hired, I do wonder if maybe for this creator, that's some of it. It's easier to point blame than to subject ourselves to shame.
Being in something for years, like I was, isn't guaranteed work, and working in film industry, it's always on and off, off, and on.
The companies that hire are using AI more in vocal work, in commercials, basically all adverts in podcastings, hell, a few of the tutorials for apps featured on this forum are voiced my AI - I can't blame them, and I won't shame them specifically, but I can choose to not engage with my wallet going forward.
But see? That's my bias, as an audio engineer.
On one hand, it's great that now there are tutorials on apps that didn't exist before, on the other, any and every business takes time, money, and effort, why did it take getting AI to make those videos? Guaranteed, in an audio app effing niche, there's one person here it would have done the bits for cheap or for some kind of deal.
Last anecdote i'll share*, I was watching Amazon Prime, there's a show from when the service first came out that I rather like and figured I would rewatch it. The plan's account that I'm signed in on, doesn't pay the $3 for ad-free or whatever, no worries, all good.. at one point the onslaught of AI voices narrating these commercials was so often, I figured I'd make a spreadsheet of the companies who utilized it, figured who bought the ad-space, and make a fuss about it to my friends because that's who I am evidently lol.
Within a couple of episodes, I realized it's been every single ad spot, that featured narration. All of them.
PS - I hadn't heard of Zappa, I'm going to look into him, thank you for sharing that.
EDIT* - wrong word, put down stare when I meant 'share'
My point is, we effed - at least some of us.
If everything is going AI, then when the AI's are all AI'ing with themselves, how will consumers be able to afford to buy anything?
It's a bit of a snake eating it's own tail, the crash will be sudden, and with it, these capitalists will end up marketing 'NO AI' on their products exactly like the companies that have Gluten Free / Organic / No GMO badge on their products.
Great post man.
Wow, if you haven't heard of Zappa you're in for a treat. Check out his creativity with clay around 2:36 below.
Don't forget to look for Zappa quotes too; nobody does it better. https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/frank-zappa-quotes
The song is about the UFOs that had been alleged by Erick Von Daniken to have landed at the Nazca lines in days of the Incas. Funny stuff.
That's pretty much what it was, which is what I discovered about 4 minutes in as he merely commented on other people's videos and bits of news. There was no real original thought involved.
"The genetic fallacy is a fallacy of irrelevance in which arguments or information are dismissed or validated based solely on their source of origin rather than their content. In other words, a claim is ignored or given credibility based on its source rather than the claim itself."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_fallacy
The thread is about VEO3, not how or why youtubers make videos.
A.I. and robots will be doing both... if you want them to do those things. People with zero interest in having a robot or A.I. assist them will be able to avoid most of it (as long as they limit their interactions with others, including outside businesses and organizations). I guarantee robots and A.I. will be everywhere in a very, very short amount of time. Why? Two reasons: Global labor shortages and cost saving measures.
Those who are early adopters and those who cannot afford to not have a robot (for example, people with an elderly or sick parent or other family member and they absolutely HAVE to have a full-time attendant) will add to those who choose to lease/rent or own a robot with A.I. ... I think the convenience and the affordability of these systems will make taking care of others impossible otherwise.
I see it this way:
There's no stopping what's happening any more than there was a choice to halt the industrial revolution. Not that I think it's the same in any way as the industrial revolution, but there are many areas of overlap. There was no hope of stopping the nuclear arms race either (and sadly there is also some overlap there 😬).
But as it pertains to creatives, I believe there will be a reciprocal reaction by many back to authentic, real, live expression and performance. There are signs of it already. Creativity and artistic expression is ingrained in human beings. We crave doing it and experiencing others doing it. We also crave "real" things. The recent surge in popularity of in-print books is one small example.
Careers in Media for mass consumption will surely be in tatters and will probably never recover. But I believe there will be a resurgence of live gigs, more original song writing, and personalized touch - all of which have gone downhill in the mainstream for decades. The optimist in me feels like it'll be a catalyst similar to the late 50's through 70's **.
Since it'll be impossible to distinguish between real and AI performances except in person, I believe there will be a resurgence of live entertainment as well. Maybe in authentic musicianship as well (I hope) - that one, for the personal satisfaction, and in spite of the fact that the artificial shit will always be able to be technically more skillful. At home playing, small gigs, music festivals, live theatre and musicals, I believe are in for a reawakening.
Well, that was pointless, but satisfying to write. 😂
(** The pessimist is convinced that it will also trigger a disaster like none we've ever seen, but I'm fatalistic about that.)
+++
lol, yup
I think you are basically right about this. Live performances will seem more unique and will hold a bit more cachet since pre-recorded entertainment may soon be overwhelmed by A.I.-generated stuff. But the overall number of live performers will decrease significantly because it'll be even harder to make a living at it, in broad terms.
And based on trends I'm seeing, the next wave of A.I. won't be that far off, which is to say we can soon expect to see A.I. which understands context and subtext (it will be able to read between the lines to give people exactly what they want most of the time, instead of it delivering unsatisfactory results).
Taking a slightly science-fiction future view of things, there's an assumption that vast numbers of people will become permanently unemployable. I don't agree with this view. Supply and demand is a fundamental component of human interactions, so even if knowledge and labor become essentially "free" by their abundance thanks to A.I. and humanoid robots, people will always want more of something which will be in short supply and people will recognize and take advantage of that.
I think if a person had an expectation to get into a 'creative' (cough) industry as a cog or behind the scenes craftsperson/technician, then yah, I would advise them to measure their expectations. But if they have a unique point of view, a message they want to get out and are most importantly willing to be the front facing spokesperson for their work and like to engage directly with their audience and peers to be a part of the package (influencer/ugh, wash my mouth out), then sure, go for it. But eh, they would do it anyway, who am I anyway, heh
I think it’s funny that everyone is going onto a platform like YouTube to make noise about the machines. And…it’s always about something new that’s been released right at the time of release. Publicity couldn’t be better. "any publicity is good publicity" .
I mean, I can’t even be sure that this YouTube video itself wasn’t AI generated….
Live performances will seem more unique and will hold a bit more cachet since pre-recorded entertainment may soon be overwhelmed by A.I.-generated stuff. But the overall number of live performers will decrease significantly because it'll be even harder to make a living at it, in broad terms.
We may see more live performance, because we'll all be unemployed and have nothing better to do.
Some of us are unemployed but somehow still have plenty to do.
Any sector of the economy which has far more supply than there is demand (in very general terms including music, art, acting) successful careers are rare.
Maybe the machines, caught in an infinitely expanding competitive workspace for their own product, will pay us to listen to their stuff. It might drive me to early dementia, but I would consider supplementing my retirement income to do that.
eh. nvm. tried that with Survey Junkie. It was too tedious for the amount of income generated.
+1
/DMfan🇸🇪
I want an AI assistant that listens all the time to my wife talking to the cat, asking herself questions, answering herself, talking to Siri, dictating texts, cursing her idiotic Apple watch, reading junk emails out loud, reacting to what she's watching on YouTube, comforting her stuffed animals, conversing with her plants, God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit ... and sometimes to me, while I'm working.
I need it to sort through all that and to decide if something requires a response. I need it to pop up an alert on my screen and ideally show the text of only those comments that require a conversational response other than a grunt.
It will need to be a somewhat intelligent bot because she uses the same tone, emotion, and inflection with Siri and everything else that she does with me. "I don't know" is generally the safest response, and chat bots suck at that.
This would boost my productivity more than any other AI assistant I can imagine. My wife will be happier too because she simply can't understand why I often don't answer the first time she says something to me. My filters just aren't advanced enough. They miss stuff and come up with false positives all the time.
I've heard they're using A.I. to communicate with dolphins ( https://blog.google/technology/ai/dolphingemma/ ) and whales now. Perhaps one day A.I. will be helpful for human-to-human communications...