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Comments

  • @wim said:

    You know what I could really go for? Some place that has an artist doing live painting sessions. I would find that even more relaxing and entertaining than music I think.

    I'm seriously feeling an increasingly strong attraction back to authentic live performance interaction. I feel like I'm not alone in that. I hope so.

    +1

  • @wim said:

    You know what I could really go for? Some place that has an artist doing live painting sessions. I would find that even more relaxing and entertaining than music I think.

    Live painting is great. I knew a guy who used to paint in a kiosk in the hallway of the mall. It was like our own live Bob Ross. Very cool to watch and I think the mall did treat him well, like an attraction.

  • @AudioGus said:

    @wim said:

    You know what I could really go for? Some place that has an artist doing live painting sessions. I would find that even more relaxing and entertaining than music I think.

    Live painting is great. I knew a guy who used to paint in a kiosk in the hallway of the mall. It was like our own live Bob Ross. Very cool to watch and I think the mall did treat him well, like an attraction.

    Yeah, I've seen that a time or too as well, once even in a cafe. I loved it.
    I could go for other kinds of artistry as well. Pottery, wood carving, glass blowing, etc.

    I feel stronger than ever that humans will never lose their craving both to create and experience others creating. I think (hope) AI advancements will be balanced by increased appreciation of authentic experience.

  • edited May 31

    @wim said:

    @AudioGus said:

    @Dav said:
    I think there always will be a market for live musicians no matter how good AI gets, and it’s getting good. I’m a full time live acoustic musician/singer. That special connection and interaction with a real-time performer and the audience just can’t be faked.

    Absolutely! I actually wish I had invested more time on my playing skills over the years than digital production.

    I'm seeing more locations offering live music to attract customers. Even a local out of the way coffee and pastry shop has recently begun offering live music two days a week. These are places that didn't have music pre Covid, so it's more than just recovering from lockdown. I hope it's a trend.

    You know what I could really go for? Some place that has an artist doing live painting sessions. I would find that even more relaxing and entertaining than music I think.

    I'm seriously feeling an increasingly strong attraction back to authentic live performance interaction. I feel like I'm not alone in that. I hope so.

    Unfortunately, one of the absolute masters of his craft (Kim Jung Gi) recently passed away. But he regularly would put on clinics where people could go watch him create masterpieces right before their eyes. Many of his works are pure expressions of his id, so I'd caution younger or sensitive people from watching some of his other videos.

  • There’s an artist in my city who sets up an easel in a shopping district and paints there daily and sells hours pieces. He’s been doing it forever. Busking is pretty common in the area. I’ve also seen a drummer with a sign next to him who charged for song requests - had a QR to his Venmo/cashapp/socials/etc. I’ve set up and busked there a few times with a buddy just to jam on a small 3 piece drum kit and a small Honeytone amp. More for fun than anything, but I’m glad there’s that slice of humanity so easily accessible.

  • edited May 31

    I think there will kick ass live action plays of things like The Lord of The Rings but with robot orcs etc bashing each other on stage with a live orchestra pit. Yum!

  • https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/may/31/the-workers-who-lost-their-jobs-to-ai-chatgpt

    Again, the real gold is in the comments section, where it always is (at least until the comments are also all written by bots lol)

  • edited May 31

    @Gavinski said:
    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/may/31/the-workers-who-lost-their-jobs-to-ai-chatgpt

    Again, the real gold is in the comments section, where it always is (at least until the comments are also all written by bots lol)

    A job that disappears due to automation is the job market's way of communicating to workers what jobs are valuable to companies. It's the responsibility of the worker to help the business succeed. When they do that, they keep their job.

    But even the best workers should keep their ear to the ground and try to leverage their current job for a better one. That's just how things are.

    Former employees going to a news organization to complain about being laid off instead of seeking a new job doing anything available is a signal to employers that those people represent a problem instead of a solution.

    And sometimes "problem" employees are good self-starters who should instead be running their own business. In my experience, there is nothing more valuable than running one's own business to gain the experience of all the downsides and all the benefits for oneself.

  • @Gavinski said:
    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/may/31/the-workers-who-lost-their-jobs-to-ai-chatgpt

    Again, the real gold is in the comments section, where it always is (at least until the comments are also all written by bots lol)

    Those stories and the comments, the ones that seemed real at least, made me deeply sad for a plethora of reasons.

    It’s been a while since I’ve read anything that made me want to log off for a while, I suppose I was due.

    Thank you for sharing that, I appreciate the opportunity to have read it.

  • wimwim
    edited May 31

    The cynicism and lack of empathy in some of these responses triggered a memory of something I read in a historical novel about China around the 18th century or so. (Yes, it was a novel, so I don't vouch for the accuracy.)

    The moral responsibility of the richest was to find as many ways to employ servants as possible, to provide ways for those in the village to earn a living. It was a good system (in the novel).

    It's all the opposite now. 😕

  • @wim said:
    The cynicism and lack of empathy in some of these responses reminded me of something I read in a historical novel about China around the 18th century or so. (Yes, it was a novel, so I don't vouch for the accuracy.)

    The moral responsibility of the richest was to find as many ways to employ servants as possible, to provide ways for those in the village to earn a living. It was a good system (in the novel).

    It's all the opposite now. 😕

    Yah some people have a lot of challenges in life and getting their livelihood ripped out can be crippling. Not everyone is set up to be able to just focus intently on a career shift, start a business etc at the drop of a hat. People fall through the cracks due to circumstances beyond their control and the default attitude of 'sink or swim fucker!' can be pretty cruel. Couple that with...


  • @NeuM said:

    @Gavinski said:
    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/may/31/the-workers-who-lost-their-jobs-to-ai-chatgpt

    Again, the real gold is in the comments section, where it always is (at least until the comments are also all written by bots lol)

    A job that disappears due to automation is the job market's way of communicating to workers what jobs are valuable to companies. It's the responsibility of the worker to help the business succeed. When they do that, they keep their job.

    But even the best workers should keep their ear to the ground and try to leverage their current job for a better one. That's just how things are.

    Former employees going to a news organization to complain about being laid off instead of seeking a new job doing anything available is a signal to employers that those people represent a problem instead of a solution.

    And sometimes "problem" employees are good self-starters who should instead be running their own business. In my experience, there is nothing more valuable than running one's own business to gain the experience of all the downsides and all the benefits for oneself.

    "That's just how things are".... That does not mean that's how they have to be. The biggest con trick of neoliberalism is that it's been good at persuading people our current system is somehow 'natural' or inevitable. It's not.

    Also, from the excellent book The Tyranny of Merit by Michael J Sandel:

    'In an unequal society, those who land on top want to believe their status is morally justified. In a meritocratic society, this means the winners must believe they have earned their success through their own talent and hard work.'

    In ages past, the elite often justified their position through notions of noble blood, divine order etc. Those ideas would seem farcical to most of us now, and I believe that many of the values and assumptions underpinning and propping up our current society will seem equally ridiculous 100 years from now.

  • @NeuM said:
    Former employees going to a news organization to complain about being laid off instead of seeking a new job doing anything available is a signal to employers that those people represent a problem instead of a solution.

    No, no, no - it's just another example of your "market forces" in action: companies need to realise that what they do has consequences. Fire people and hire robots creates unhappy people. Unhappy people in a free society with free speech have the right to go and tell their stories to newspapers.

    The (labour) market decides.

  • @Gavinski said:

    @NeuM said:

    @Gavinski said:
    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/may/31/the-workers-who-lost-their-jobs-to-ai-chatgpt

    Again, the real gold is in the comments section, where it always is (at least until the comments are also all written by bots lol)

    A job that disappears due to automation is the job market's way of communicating to workers what jobs are valuable to companies. It's the responsibility of the worker to help the business succeed. When they do that, they keep their job.

    But even the best workers should keep their ear to the ground and try to leverage their current job for a better one. That's just how things are.

    Former employees going to a news organization to complain about being laid off instead of seeking a new job doing anything available is a signal to employers that those people represent a problem instead of a solution.

    And sometimes "problem" employees are good self-starters who should instead be running their own business. In my experience, there is nothing more valuable than running one's own business to gain the experience of all the downsides and all the benefits for oneself.

    "That's just how things are".... That does not mean that's how they have to be. The biggest con trick of neoliberalism is that it's been good at persuading people our current system is somehow 'natural' or inevitable. It's not.

    Also, from the excellent book The Tyranny of Merit by Michael J Sandel:

    'In an unequal society, those who land on top want to believe their status is morally justified. In a meritocratic society, this means the winners must believe they have earned their success through their own talent and hard work.'

    In ages past, the elite often justified their position through notions of noble blood, divine order etc. Those ideas would seem farcical to most of us now, and I believe that many of the values and assumptions underpinning and propping up our current society will seem equally ridiculous 100 years from now.

    Excellent post, i completely agree.

    The quote reminded me of Alain de Botton saying the same in Status Anxiety. He went on to say that if winners believe they have earned or deserve their success, it unfortunately follows that they very often also believe that those who are unsuccessful similarly deserve that status.

  • edited June 1

    @Gavinski said:

    @NeuM said:

    @Gavinski said:
    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/may/31/the-workers-who-lost-their-jobs-to-ai-chatgpt

    Again, the real gold is in the comments section, where it always is (at least until the comments are also all written by bots lol)

    A job that disappears due to automation is the job market's way of communicating to workers what jobs are valuable to companies. It's the responsibility of the worker to help the business succeed. When they do that, they keep their job.

    But even the best workers should keep their ear to the ground and try to leverage their current job for a better one. That's just how things are.

    Former employees going to a news organization to complain about being laid off instead of seeking a new job doing anything available is a signal to employers that those people represent a problem instead of a solution.

    And sometimes "problem" employees are good self-starters who should instead be running their own business. In my experience, there is nothing more valuable than running one's own business to gain the experience of all the downsides and all the benefits for oneself.

    "That's just how things are".... That does not mean that's how they have to be. The biggest con trick of neoliberalism is that it's been good at persuading people our current system is somehow 'natural' or inevitable. It's not.

    Also, from the excellent book The Tyranny of Merit by Michael J Sandel:

    'In an unequal society, those who land on top want to believe their status is morally justified. In a meritocratic society, this means the winners must believe they have earned their success through their own talent and hard work.'

    In ages past, the elite often justified their position through notions of noble blood, divine order etc. Those ideas would seem farcical to most of us now, and I believe that many of the values and assumptions underpinning and propping up our current society will seem equally ridiculous 100 years from now.

    You brought it up so I'll address it, but dwelling on politics may get this thread locked or moved (I vote for moving it rather than preventing people from adding their opinions).

    What is an "unequal society"? It's one where people are responsible for their own successes and failures. They can choose for themselves how to spend their time and money. They can choose the kind of life they want to live because they work for it.

    Liberalism has failed and it is being rejected as destructive all over the world. Personally, I favor a "socially liberal, fiscally conservative" approach to governance, but the Left has gone overboard in so many different countries at once that they have embraced Marxism and Communism over common sense. My question is why have these failed philosophies been dredged up from the grave and foisted on Western societies at this point in history? I see the Communist Chinese government closer to collapse now than they have been since they gained power and they are desperately trying to marshal forces worldwide from their Leftist allies in the EU and the West to delay their end.

    But the Communist Party in China (now 76 years old), is already well past the typical lifespan of a one-party system (they typically don't survive beyond 70 years). The Soviet Union existed for 74 years before collapse and there are parallels between their fall and China today.

    How does this relate to this thread? Merit wins over ideological handcuffs on skilled individuals and competitive businesses. Wherever people have experienced freedom they won't return to authoritarianism / Marxism / Communism. Wherever governments have tried to crush dissent by burying their people under Leftist policies they are experiencing a tidal wave of rejection.

  • @NeuM said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @NeuM said:

    @Gavinski said:
    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/may/31/the-workers-who-lost-their-jobs-to-ai-chatgpt

    Again, the real gold is in the comments section, where it always is (at least until the comments are also all written by bots lol)

    A job that disappears due to automation is the job market's way of communicating to workers what jobs are valuable to companies. It's the responsibility of the worker to help the business succeed. When they do that, they keep their job.

    But even the best workers should keep their ear to the ground and try to leverage their current job for a better one. That's just how things are.

    Former employees going to a news organization to complain about being laid off instead of seeking a new job doing anything available is a signal to employers that those people represent a problem instead of a solution.

    And sometimes "problem" employees are good self-starters who should instead be running their own business. In my experience, there is nothing more valuable than running one's own business to gain the experience of all the downsides and all the benefits for oneself.

    "That's just how things are".... That does not mean that's how they have to be. The biggest con trick of neoliberalism is that it's been good at persuading people our current system is somehow 'natural' or inevitable. It's not.

    Also, from the excellent book The Tyranny of Merit by Michael J Sandel:

    'In an unequal society, those who land on top want to believe their status is morally justified. In a meritocratic society, this means the winners must believe they have earned their success through their own talent and hard work.'

    In ages past, the elite often justified their position through notions of noble blood, divine order etc. Those ideas would seem farcical to most of us now, and I believe that many of the values and assumptions underpinning and propping up our current society will seem equally ridiculous 100 years from now.

    You brought it up so I'll address it, but dwelling on politics may get this thread locked or moved (I vote for moving it rather than preventing people from adding their opinions).

    What is an "unequal society"? It's one where people are responsible for their own successes and failures. They can choose for themselves how to spend their time and money. They can choose the kind of life they want to live because they work for it.

    Liberalism has failed and it is being rejected as destructive all over the world. Personally, I favor a "socially liberal, fiscally conservative" approach to governance, but the Left has gone overboard in so many different countries at once that they have embraced Marxism and Communism over common sense. My question is why have these failed philosophies have been dredged up from the grave and foisted on Western societies at this point in history? I see the Communist Chinese government closer to collapse now than they have been since they gained power and they are desperately trying to marshal forces worldwide from their Leftist allies in the EU and the West to delay their end.

    But the Communist Party in China (now 76 years old), is already well past the typical lifespan of a one-party system (they typically don't survive beyond 70 years). The Soviet Union existed for 74 years before collapse and there are parallels between their fall and China today.

    How does this relate to this thread? Merit wins over ideological handcuffs on skilled individuals and competitive businesses. Wherever people have experienced freedom they won't return to authoritarianism / Marxism / Communism. Wherever governments have tried to crush dissent by burying their people under Leftist policies they are experiencing a tidal wave of rejection.

    Tbh, I've got zero interest in having a detailed debate with you about this. I felt I had to say something in response to your previous post, but I'm leaving it at that now. Feel free, of course, to make a thread in Other if you see fit, maybe others here will take part.

  • edited June 1

    @NeuM said:
    A job that disappears due to automation is the job market's way of communicating to workers what jobs are valuable to companies. **It's the responsibility of the worker to help the business succeed. When they do that, they keep their job. **

    That simply isn’t true. Factually it’s complete bullshit. Why did you post it?! How do you believe it?!?! Mad.

  • Systems can be a multitude of things at the same time. It just hurts more to look at it that way.

  • @Gavinski said:

    Tbh, I've got zero interest in having a detailed debate with you about this. I felt I had to say something in response to your previous post, but I'm leaving it at that now. Feel free, of course, to make a thread in Other if you see fit, maybe others here will take part.

    Best course of action in some cases. I really appreciated your previous post in this thread as well, helped me regain some confidence I had felt wavering in engaging - Cheers @Gavinski

  • @offbrands said:

    @Gavinski said:

    Tbh, I've got zero interest in having a detailed debate with you about this. I felt I had to say something in response to your previous post, but I'm leaving it at that now. Feel free, of course, to make a thread in Other if you see fit, maybe others here will take part.

    Best course of action in some cases. I really appreciated your previous post in this thread as well, helped me regain some confidence I had felt wavering in engaging - Cheers @Gavinski

    No probs. Best course of action in many cases. I think there's generally very very little to be gained by discussing something via text with a stranger on the internet whose views are the polar opposite of your own. Extremely unlikely any minds will be changed, I sure most of us could spend that time more wisely. Of course, what one's definition of wise use of time means will vary widely 😅

  • @Michael_R_Grant said:

    @NeuM said:
    A job that disappears due to automation is the job market's way of communicating to workers what jobs are valuable to companies. **It's the responsibility of the worker to help the business succeed. When they do that, they keep their job. **

    That simply isn’t true. Factually it’s complete bullshit. Why did you post it?! How do you believe it?!?! Mad.

    Which part of the statement do you find untrue? When you reply, provide a reason you disagree, not a an ad hominem attack or insult.

  • @Gavinski said:

    @offbrands said:

    @Gavinski said:

    Tbh, I've got zero interest in having a detailed debate with you about this. I felt I had to say something in response to your previous post, but I'm leaving it at that now. Feel free, of course, to make a thread in Other if you see fit, maybe others here will take part.

    Best course of action in some cases. I really appreciated your previous post in this thread as well, helped me regain some confidence I had felt wavering in engaging - Cheers @Gavinski

    No probs. Best course of action in many cases. I think there's generally very very little to be gained by discussing something via text with a stranger on the internet whose views are the polar opposite of your own. Extremely unlikely any minds will be changed, I sure most of us could spend that time more wisely. Of course, what one's definition of wise use of time means will vary widely 😅

    Well said! - A bit disappointing but that’s life. Wont be doing that again .. for a while 😵‍💫

    Convos like these and responses being seen are helpful in seeing a bit in seeing a peek into how some people you engage with think about certain things, which is helpful to me so I avoid disappointing my self with false expectations / standards I hold of someone.

    Got some really nice DMs that helped shape my view better of a few people here, as well as having consistently appreciated seeing some of your responses on these threads, so thank you.

    Picked up a couple of those books btw you’ve mentioned 🙏🏽

  • @offbrands said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @offbrands said:

    @Gavinski said:

    Tbh, I've got zero interest in having a detailed debate with you about this. I felt I had to say something in response to your previous post, but I'm leaving it at that now. Feel free, of course, to make a thread in Other if you see fit, maybe others here will take part.

    Best course of action in some cases. I really appreciated your previous post in this thread as well, helped me regain some confidence I had felt wavering in engaging - Cheers @Gavinski

    No probs. Best course of action in many cases. I think there's generally very very little to be gained by discussing something via text with a stranger on the internet whose views are the polar opposite of your own. Extremely unlikely any minds will be changed, I sure most of us could spend that time more wisely. Of course, what one's definition of wise use of time means will vary widely 😅

    Well said! - A bit disappointing but that’s life. Wont be doing that again .. for a while 😵‍💫

    Convos like these and responses being seen are helpful in seeing a bit in seeing a peek into how some people you engage with think about certain things, which is helpful to me so I avoid disappointing my self with false expectations / standards I hold of someone.

    Got some really nice DMs that helped shape my view better of a few people here, as well as having consistently appreciated seeing some of your responses on these threads, so thank you.

    Picked up a couple of those books btw you’ve mentioned 🙏🏽

    Great! I am only about half way through the Tyranny of Merit but I've found it very thought-provoking, and he doesn't spare the left or the Dems from criticism either btw!

  • @Gavinski said:

    @offbrands said:

    @Gavinski said:

    @offbrands said:

    @Gavinski said:

    Tbh, I've got zero interest in having a detailed debate with you about this. I felt I had to say something in response to your previous post, but I'm leaving it at that now. Feel free, of course, to make a thread in Other if you see fit, maybe others here will take part.

    Best course of action in some cases. I really appreciated your previous post in this thread as well, helped me regain some confidence I had felt wavering in engaging - Cheers @Gavinski

    No probs. Best course of action in many cases. I think there's generally very very little to be gained by discussing something via text with a stranger on the internet whose views are the polar opposite of your own. Extremely unlikely any minds will be changed, I sure most of us could spend that time more wisely. Of course, what one's definition of wise use of time means will vary widely 😅

    Well said! - A bit disappointing but that’s life. Wont be doing that again .. for a while 😵‍💫

    Convos like these and responses being seen are helpful in seeing a bit in seeing a peek into how some people you engage with think about certain things, which is helpful to me so I avoid disappointing my self with false expectations / standards I hold of someone.

    Got some really nice DMs that helped shape my view better of a few people here, as well as having consistently appreciated seeing some of your responses on these threads, so thank you.

    Picked up a couple of those books btw you’ve mentioned 🙏🏽

    Great! I am only about half way through the Tyranny of Merit but I've found it very thought-provoking, and he doesn't spare the left or the Dems from criticism either btw!

    Nor do I 😉

    Neither should anyone in their own political beliefs, or otherwise, I say. Can’t learn or grow otherwise. 🤷🏻‍♂️

    So even more intrigued! Appreciate the heads up.

  • (Uh oh, I might be dragging this to the “other” aka forbidden zone and I apologize in advance.)

    “… to belong to the proletariat is not just to do some kind of well or badly paid job; above all, it’s to need a job, whether you have one or not. Employed or unemployed, the proletarian doesn’t own the means of production necessary for laboring, and the tendency of capital constantly to reduce the labor-time necessary to set in motion its mounting apparatus of machinery means - that, over time, it requires fewer and fewer workers relative to the scale of operations.”

    Marx refers to the unemployed as the “relative surplus population”

    I can’t help thinking that our oligarchs are actively planning to cull the herd. It’s happening here in the US as the ‘administration’ cuts social services and appoints fools to run health and human services and run health care to the ground, demonizing vaccines, etc..

  • @UrbanNinja said:
    Google's VEO 3 was just released, and with it, apparently, fresh waves of angst amongst sound and film professionals.

    Thoughts?

    "I’m an award winning composer and have been creating music successfully for commercials since the 80’s. My last big job was two months ago and I guess that’s it now. Creatives, directors, editors, camera people, set designers, lighting designers, food specialists, actors, speakers, film canteens, musicians and singers… all redundant. The last industrial revolution still had people involved in whatever new technology was developed making a living. It’s only a matter of time - actually it’s already happening - that Ai composes its own prompts based on context. This technology - as fantastic as it is - will decimate a whole swathe of the creative workforce. Pandora’s box has been opened and it’s too late to stop the inevitable. The bombardment of stuff already attacking our senses is already at such a high pitch that we are in danger of sensory overload. Non of this will prevent me from creating music but the idea of financial security through my endeavors has gone up in smoke. Good luck to all of us😎 "

    But… they said that with music downloads (MP3) back in the day.. Seems, music today cannot survive without it..

    Have not dealt much into AI music..
    let’s see..

  • @MrStochastic said:
    (Uh oh, I might be dragging this to the “other” aka forbidden zone and I apologize in advance.)

    “… to belong to the proletariat is not just to do some kind of well or badly paid job; above all, it’s to need a job, whether you have one or not. Employed or unemployed, the proletarian doesn’t own the means of production necessary for laboring, and the tendency of capital constantly to reduce the labor-time necessary to set in motion its mounting apparatus of machinery means - that, over time, it requires fewer and fewer workers relative to the scale of operations.”

    Marx refers to the unemployed as the “relative surplus population”

    I can’t help thinking that our oligarchs are actively planning to cull the herd. It’s happening here in the US as the ‘administration’ cuts social services and appoints fools to run health and human services and run health care to the ground, demonizing vaccines, etc..

    When markets are allowed to function efficiently (productive activities are financially rewarded, unproductive activities are not), then trends in employment inform job seekers or entrepreneurs where skills and capital are needed most. Political intervention and interference in markets is the norm and not the exception, so we have few examples of free markets in action except on the micro-scale generally. Fear of efficient markets is how politicians gain power ("elect me and I'll give you something for nothing").

    And regarding Karl Marx... His economic philosophy supported his own layabout lifestyle. Marxism has been a failure everywhere it has been used. It is an anti-individual, anti-human philosophy.

  • wimwim
    edited June 1

    Speaking as a participant, not a moderator ...

    I personally hope we're not going to continue down the rabbit hole of dissecting Marxism and Liberalism in a thread about creatives' jobs being replaced by AI. Sure, there are some hooks into the discussion, but I'm tired of those age-old debates. The jobs discussion, particularly the personal side of it, has been interesting though.

  • Yah I think politics (as in actual policies/laws that effect markets, fiscal/jobs etc) can have validity in a discussion like this (to a point) but once it gets into ideological debates, meh. Often people seem to say politics but they really mean ideology.

  • @wim said:
    Speaking as a participant, not a moderator ...

    I personally hope we're not going to continue down the rabbit hole of dissecting Marxism and Liberalism in a thread about creatives' jobs being replaced by AI. Sure, there are some hooks into the discussion, but I'm tired of those age-old debates. The jobs discussion, particularly the personal side of it, has been interesting though.

    When the subject of jobs comes up it's absolutely linked to individual beliefs on what are jobs and what role does government play, but I'll leave that for others to ponder since these represent endless rabbit holes.

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