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Comments
@AudioGus
“I think Telstar was referring to skillset development and how some people will have a talent for it more than just the technological improvement.”—
No, actually I meant someone will coming along with a genius for using the actual technology.
Ultimately what we call 'genius' is an extremely high degree of skill and talent (of course also effort), so we are saying the same thing in my mind, as 'genius' isn't magic. I wasn't saying people will be better than the technology. I was saying people would use the technology with a high degree of skill and talent (and yes the extreme end of this we label as genius) but maybe that didn't come across in what I said.
Humm ... this brought an interesting but completely off topic question to my mind.
If progress is such a mixed bag of positives and negatives, what point in history was the ideal balance?
Hopefully nobody will try to answer that. It should be in the Other category if anywhere at all. (Arguably this whole thread should be at this point, but it did at least start out as being about music.)
As I alluded to before, we likely went off course from being balanced (or better yet were simply kept down / in place by external pressures) a long time ago and are likely on a collision trajectory with something undesirable to current modern ideals; and this stage/moment in time is just one of the curious sparkly incendiary particles of the exploding chain reaction as the whole thing goes kablooey in irreversible slow motion. Currency, the printing press, industrial revolution, factory farming, military industrial jackassery... all expanding from the same inertia of human nature that broke out of its bonds of nature only to consume it's environment and fizzle out like a chemical reaction.
There was no ideal moment. From the moment anyone or anything exists there are positives and negatives for that existence. With will though, comes choice, the choice to weigh up the pros and the cons. What may be a pro for one person, an inventor looking for income, could be the end of a whole line of employment for others. As soon as we took our first step it came with risks. Some steps are worth it, some are not. Steps taken on behalf of everyone (e.g. technology) have pros and cons. And unfortunately human nature generally dictates a blinkered approach whereby people only look at things as they will affect that individual (and possibly those they care about). Take a nuclear weapon for an extreme example. Or as a seemingly more benign example, taking shells from a beach. Good for some, bad for others. Who decides? No one.
Yeah, can we move this to just Other so it’s not in the main feed?
At the point where we are as a species, I don't think we should choose to see only positives or negatives. We should embrace all in the most objective way to try to decide what we should be doing next for our own survival.
Science and industrial era brought us comfortable modern lives and healthier and longer lives, iPad and loopy pro., yoo-hoo!
Science and industrial era also brought the ongoing Anthropocene mass extinction, climate change and proliferation of mass destruction weapons.
Science can definitely help us. but seeing it as our only and absolute saviour seems to be pure Musk' deranged mind fantasy. We can barely go on the moon, colonizing another planet, come on Elon... You're supposed to be the smart one, can't you think of something a bit more... now?
On a planet with limited resources and ever growing population, we also have to question and adjust our way of life to survive. I want to believe people will be willing to do so, at least for the sake of their own children and grandchildren. But this will imply giving up on some privileges and comfort. Are we ready for this ?
This thread is taking a far more interesting direction than its original topic. Feeling sorry for the people coming here only for music though.
🤔 It started off about music though.
It'd be better if it could drift a back a bit more on-topic, with another thread started in the Other section if the wider discussion still has legs but ...
... yeh. I'll try moving it. I bet it's annoying more people than it's entertaining. Anyone who wants to continue following it can always favorite it.
Apologies in advance if that angers anyone. To be fair, it actually started off in Other, and I coulda left it there in the first place, but it was specifically related to music when it started. It's just one of those topics that is pretty much never going to be limited to just music, and for good reason.
Each of us are individuals with different ideas about what is important. Our separate values mean we pursue our own goals, not some nebulous goal of a "species". There is no such thing as objectivity when we are each invested in our own welfare.
A.I., like all things people create, will operate in an environment of competition. What people value they will pay to get more of it. There will be many different types of "A.I.'s" in our future, not just one big pulsating electronic superbrain.
And I'm sorry, but I'm not going to address any of the other things mentioned which are generally too divisive here to discuss. And they're also too far off the main point of the thread.
But thanks for the thoughtful response either way.
Thanks Wim! 👍
Longest pause in the history of television interviewing?
Interesting response when they asked Elon Musk what jobs young people should pursue in the oncoming "Ai age":
He knows the disaster that is coming...
Why does he look like an egg in mourning?
With the positive and negative changes AI is brining to our lives, it can only be a divisive topic.
@wim you could also keep it in the other music category and erase all the problematically seen comments if anybody involved agreed. I am in a large way responsible for the way this thread turned out, but I honestly don't feel apologetic. Like in some of my songs, I can take the cynical and ironic approach to impersonate the opinion or the character I am trying to debunk. Doesn't mix well with politically correct and self censored talk for sure. I am aware that people who don't get it can perceive it as needlessly provocative, offensive, pretentious or whatever. Being a non native adds a level of encryption too. And tbh, Lately I have been horrified by the way the world is turning and this also probably got to my head a bit too much. I should take a short break from the world news... Still I stand by everything I said. I long for a more "human" empathetic and peaceful world and hope the best for the community and its people even though I disagree with some of the opinions expressed here.
So @wim if people are angered at seeing this thread sent to the "other" purgatory and if you think the way I expressed myself on part or all of my comments contributed to this, please feel free to erase whatever you deem necessary. I really don't mind if it can help revive the thread and make people happy. I trust your judgement as you have been one, if not, the greatest moderator on this forum.
No, no, no. Not at all. The topic of AI is guaranteed to stray from just being about music. Nobody should apologize for it going that direction. Nothing “wrong” has happened here at all.
Being moved to the Other category isn’t a stigma for a topic. It’s just housekeeping.
I’m not sure why people get bothered by threads threads they aren’t interested appearing in the feed, but it’s always the case. This is the compromise meant to address that.
Everybody losing their jobs to Ai is the good news - the real worry is when terrorists, criminals and the military get their hands on it.
Or, just as likely, when someone screws up and it leaks out into the wild iterating through every permutation to optimize infrastructure like ... the electrical grid ... and breaks it (and us in a shockingly short amount of time).
so the thread says closed and zero comments... but I can still post?
We’re all hallucinating now😅
Agreed (all good @JanKun 👍)
For me in this instance it’s that through the thread title the OP is promoting a new service by Suno. This conversation inevitably goes beyond just Sumo Studio so every time this thread gets bumped it re-promotes Suno and I don’t think that’s fair to the hardworking indie developers who don’t have crazy AI funding behind them, and are a part of our iOS community designing truly creative tools for iOS musicians.
I'm "promoting a new service"? I find your suggestion offensive, to say the very least.
No, I'm having a discussion with people. I don't get paid to promote anything here.
In case you haven't noticed, I also post quite a bit about Cherry Audio. I happen to like their synths. And I don't get paid by them either.
"A.I." (whatever that ultimately means) and A.I.-driven robots will be capable of performing most work eventually. We're not there yet. People should do what they like for now and be good at it. If the market decides many more careers are no longer needed (whatever happened to all of the elevator operators and horse-driven carriage workers, anyway?)... then get a career that IS in demand.
It'll take a bit longer for certain manual labor jobs to be replaced by robots (electricians, plumbers, A/C installers, automotive repairs... these are just a few, but it is certainly not a comprehensive list), but they will be replaced in time because that's the direction things are going. So be open to understanding this and you'll not be disappointed or caught off guard when the loop is closed.
I think Tesla (maybe they'll be renamed Tesla Robotics) could very quickly become the biggest robot manufacturer in the world and if I had a spare pile of money I'd be buying as much of their stock as I could afford. (This is not investing advice, by the way.)
It's a Vanilla Forum redirect link. Basically a zero-post thread that when clicked on redirects to the discussion that was moved. I didn't want the thread to disappear entirely for those participating in it. It won't register new comments in the feed. It'll sink. So if you want to follow this (real) thread, be sure to favorite it in the Other category.
I hope that makes sense.
Ah. That makes sense.
Ahhh gotcha, cool cool, yah it is nice having a place to talk about this stuff with creatives in a non-fanatical way. Also, I totally get why people would have objections and want to ignore it / not have it thrown in their face too. Tricky times.
Fanatical is good too. At least in the Other category. 😎
I'll admit a few fanatical posters have managed to moderate my own views on the topic to some extent. The AI revolution is one of the true stimulating topics left where we haven't all become so polarized that there's still room for ebb and flow of ideas ... unlike politics, sadly.
So... when is it "OK" to discuss A.I. here with those who are willing to evaluate both sides of the story?
Sure, there are downsides as well as upsides. But the same has been true about every technological innovation because people use these innovations for their own purposes. They aren't doing anything on their own.
I don't understand. I'm saying it is perfectly fine to discuss it here.
The thread got moved because it went primarily off-topic, which was the Suno offering, as you know as the OP. I moved it to free up the discussion without annoying those who prefer the main feed to be at least loosely related to music. It started off that way but, naturally, was headed further and further afield.
Sorry, that was not directed at you. It was meant for any who have expressed an unwillingness to even think about these things.
"A.I." is not going away and people need to come to grips with that. Things are changing now and they will not slow down. We could be looking at a 100 years of accelerating change with A.I. and the so-called Singularity approaching. This could radically affect all people everywhere. It might result in an unprecedented period of human enlightenment or humankind goes the way of the "Butlerian Jihad" and a new Dark Ages... or it might not change things beyond some jobs changing. It's too early to tell.
Yep. But railing against things that you feel strongly are unhealthy is still useful. I'm of the type that reacts to that as being useless unless it's directed toward how to deal with the inevitable - until I think it through. It's an important and necessary part of the process of finding ways to adapt.
Wherever this particular discussion ends up, I'm grateful for it. Being able to have a civil discussion about AI with people who I respect, despite our differences in views, is something refreshing.