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help: double tap „defer other actions“ feature does not work in my setup
Do you have an idea how to solve this?
I want to use the third switch of my controller for three things:
1. stop/start the midi clock + clip with TOGGLE ON/OFF (or press) to run a iphone groove drum app. On midi channel 1 - no problem here.
2. send a cc message via HOLD RELEASE to an iphone drum app to change the current A groove to B and back. On midi channel 10. Works, because the message is sent with the RELEASE of the switch.
3. Send another message to the drum app via DOUBLE PRESS to the iphone drum app with a different cc message to call up another drum groove. On midi channel 10. No success here, even when I use the „defer other actions“ option. The problem occurs when the first tap of the DOUBLE PRESS will launch the first midi message which will stop - see 1. - the midi clock and so the drumgroove. My wish is to keep the midi clock and hereby the groove go on and just send the midi message that changes the groove seamlessly. Which seems not possible. Even with the DEFER OTHER ACTIONS turned on under DOUBLE PRESS which should make Loopy pro wait for the second of the double press and not react already on the first press. The clock / groove will stop, no matter what. Can this be solved?
Comments
Have you turned on defer for both the double-press and hold actions?
What do you mean by HOLD RELEASE?
Please post screenshots of the bindings and their details.
Have you turned on defer for both the double-press and hold actions?
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No, DEEFER OTHER ACTIONS was just used for the DOUBLE PRESS action.
With HOLD RELEASE I mean the cc message happens after a long press when the switch will be released - in contrary to the HOLD function, where it happens with the tap on the switch.
The midi controller is a pirate midi Aero pedal with three switches. See the screenshots, where the action widget on the bottom for stop/play fires at a toggle on/off command. The „Rim“ widget on the bottom right fires with a double tap.
@Heinrich : I am still not clear on the details. I am finding the initial description a little confusing.
We need to see the details of each binding related to the CC number that is giving you a problem.
Could you describe it something like,
My pedal sends CC22
I have mapped
cc22 tap (on) to…
CC22 hold is mapped to…
Cc22 double tap is mapped to…
Also, please use a midi monitor to check what your pedal is sending. It should be set to send an on message immediately when pressed and an off message (value 0) on release.
OK, sorry, lets make this more clear.
Let me note that my Loopy Pro setup all works fine when I just tap with my fingers on Loopy Pros widgets on my iphone and no controller pedal used. Not anymore when my midi foot conrtroller and its editor is involved to fire a double tap/press. I included the editor settings of the foot controller in the description as well.
However, the defer other actions feature does not work in my setup.
OK, here goes:
I use a three switch foot controller sending cc messages via Widi Jack to Loopy Pro. Loopy pro is set up as a looper.
Two switches of the foot controller are steering one track each, with record, play, overdub and erase track, all good.
The Loopy Pro bindings for the third foot switch (steering drum grooves on the iphone) do not work as intended.
Footswitch press, all good:
Stop/Start midi clock+all clips = ch 1, toggle on/off cc17, value 127/0
Loopy pro
action = ch 1, press on/off cc17 to stopp/start clock+all clips (timeline set back, do count-in)
midi monitor recognizes
ch1, cc17, value 0, = STOP
ch1, cc17, value 127 = START
(a few invalid status Byte F2 raw size 3)
———————————-
Footswitch hold release (long press in Loopy Pro!), works mostly, depending on my correct switching:
Send cc21 to drum app on iphone to change groove on the fly, midiclock keeps running = ch 10, hold release cc21, value 127 (cc should only be sent with the release of the footswitch to distinguish it from the simple press)
Loopy pro
action = ch 10, long press on/off cc=21 to be sent to iphone drum app
midi monitor recognizes
ch=10, cc 21, value 127
very few invalid statusByte F2 raw size 3
———————————-
footswitch double tap, never worked, as Loopy Pro always reacts already on the 1st press of the switch.
Send cc22 to drum app on iphone to change groove on the fly, midiclock keeps running = ch 10, double tap cc22, value 127
Loopy pro
action = ch 10, double tap cc=22, defer other actions to be sent to iphone drum app
midi monitor recognizes (3 actions)
ch 1, cc 17, value 127, = STOP
ch 10, cc 22, value 127
ch 1, cc 17 value 0, = START
In other words: loopy pro stops with the first press, it does not defer other actions to just accept the second press and ignore the first.
How can I fix this? Thank you for your help.
@Heinrich : I am afraid I must not have described the information I need very well. It is still unclear to me how you how the pedal set up that is not working for you or how you have your bindings set up.
Things I Need
1 screenshots of the profile AND the individual bindings for all bindings related to pedal 3 (if my understanding is that only that pedal is causing problems)
Please take actual screenshots in Loopy Pro on your device of your bindings and post them. I need a screenshot that shows the listing of all the bindings AND I need to see each separate binding for the pedal that isn't working including the trigger for each binding of the pedal.
2 what does pedal 3 send? please confirm with a MIDI monitor what the pedal is actually sending.
What does it send on press?
What does it send on release?
Does it always send the same messages on press and release?
3 I still do not understand what you mean by HOLD RELEASE
Loopy Pro only knows what it receives. If you are talking about some special behavior you programmed in the pedal itself -- then what is off interest is only what Loopy Pro is receiving.
Thanks for your patience indeed. Much appreciated. I will try to simplify:
I attached a page with screenshots/bindings organised in three columns for the 3d problematic footswitch: start/stop midiclock & clips, toggle a drum groove of an iphone app, toggle another drumgroove of the iphone app (wile running). On the bottom of each column is a screenshot of the resulting messages as shown on a midi monitor
What does switch 3 send? See the attached screenshots.
For the start/stop - midiclock press/release = value 127/ 0 because I set them up in the editor of the midi controller as toggle mode. In Loopy Pro I have it as normal press. This might be an issue.
For sending cc to drum app, hold release = cc21 value 127, stays the same, changes the groove of the drum app while midiclock is running.
For sending cc to drum app via double press = 1st press: ch 1, cc17, value 0, STOP / 2nd press: ch 10 cc22 value 127. This is the major problem here.
Hold Release is a long press = hold, where the midi command is fired off not before the release of the switch, which makes it possible not to be recognised as a normal press or long press. I thought Loopy pro would see it like that which it apparently does.
Hopefully this is more usable now.
@Heinrich : please post a screenshot of the midi monitor of your doing a double-tap so that we can see all the midi events being received and we see only the double-tap events. What you described does not sound like a double-tap and what we see in the monitor is not a double tap. A double-tap is two ON messages for the same cc number arriving within 250 ms.
Describe to me again what bindings end up being triggered when you do the double tap.
Also, post a screenshot of your mixer in extended mode so that we see all the channel strips and routing.
@Heinrich : “defer other actions” only relates to other actions bound to the same midi message. Unless you have cc22 on (tap) mapped to something, it won’t have any effect with respect to your cc22 double -tap.
If cc22 ON was mapped to something, defer would delay the processing of any cc22 on message until it was clear that it was not a part of a double-tap.
More info at: https://wiki.loopypro.com/Tech_Note:MIDI_Bindings#Binding_Tap/Hold/Double-Tap_to_the_same_message
@espiegel123
It’s me again. I added the screenshots as you wished: The monitor screenshot of the double tap in two versions with and without the midiclock running. You have to read the lines from below to above, the midi notes come in from above and wander below.
This means the first three lines below are not accurate, sorry.
The DOUBLE TAP in the editor of the footcontroller is set up on midi ch 10 with cc22, value 127.
Looking at the time code I read it like this:
The FIRST TAP is registered on midi ch 1 with c17, Value 127.
Which will lead to a - see next line - STOP.
And then to the expected next line with midi ch 10, cc22, value 127
Because Loopy Pro interprets the first tap like a gesture from the „Toggle on“ or Tap binding that is in charge of the Stop/Start of the midi clock.
The SECOND TAP is registered as midi ch 1, cc17, value 127, followed by the expected midi ch 10, cc22, value 127, which will lead strangely to a STOP again.
With the MIDI CLOCK RUNNING it is the same, except one line is missing: midi ch 1, cc17, value 127, and the correct „START“ appears. So, with the midi clock running the process looks more accurate, but too many controls going on, because of entering also the command lines from the START/STOP blinding.
You can also find my miser settings attached, I hope they are what you wanted to look at.
Thanks one more time for your help. A step by step solution would be wonderful. I guess you have already solved the riddle from what I take from your answer.
@Heinrich : I am not understanding your double tap.
Can you reboot your device, launch midiwrench and double-tap your pedal with no other apps running but midi wrench.
If the midi in the screenshot on the right is all from your double-tap, your cc17 binding will be triggered twice and your double-tap of cc22 triggered once.
Defer other actions will do nothing because you don’t have a cc22 on binding.
@Heinrich : i just noticed that there are almost three seconds between the two cc22 events in your screenshot. The events need to arrive within 250milliseconds to be considered a double-tap.
Man, you‘re a gem how you look into things. Thanks again. I prepared some screenshots as you wished. And a little more.
SCreenshots with only midi wrench opened, 4 screenshots: a simple start with a simple tap, a start/stop with two taps (not double), one double tap and two double taps. Then I switched Loopy Pro on to have the midi clock thing included, screenshots 5 to 8, all with midi clock running: simple tap for start, two taps for start and stop, double taps (then start again midi clock), two double taps. And this looks different with Loopy pro on.
Never mind the 3 seconds issue. I read in the manual before that you allow up to 250 ms, and I can do double taps quicker than that. That must have been the next tap.
I contacted Pirate midi also before I bothered you, asking how can I implement the option double tap on the same switch with cc 22 like a normal tap with cc 17 since a double tap will always be recognised as a single tap at first. They told me that’s physically not possible because how would the footcontroller know if a single tap or double tap is coming. But what sense does it make to offer a single tap and a double tap (with a different cc) on the same switch if that’s not an option, I‘m asking myself.
To make it clearer I also added a screenshot of their editor. This is actually what the commotion at the beginning caused because they use a different nomenclatura in their editor.
I tried to come up in Loopy Pro with something like a note off or an ignore command before sending the single press cc 17 so Loopy would only recognise the double tap cc22 from that switch. But didn’t find anything that would help. What is your recommendation? Are there better options?
@Heinrich : what you are calling a double-tap is not what loopy considers a double-tap.
To Loopy Pro, a double-tap is two of the same CC or Note on messages arriving within .25seconds.
What you call double-tap is two different cc messages.
Instead of doing fancy programming on your foot controller, I suggest that you set it up as a simple momentary controller and use loopy pro’s native tap/double-tap/hold processing.
@espiegel123 Thanks for looking into this.
Let me clarify: I know what Loopy considers as double tap because you told me so in an earlier mail. Instead I described what the midi monitor shows when I do a quick double tap, is all. And that caused more than two of the same cc notes notes and the initial question was why this happens. Unfortunately one of my screenshots (of the controller editor) is too blurred to see that for double taps I set up only one midi control number, not several.
However, I think you pointed me to the right direction not to set up the editor and Loopy the same way, rather program the foot controller for simple momentary action and let Loopy process the controls needed.
The thing is I can only guess what it means to set the foot controller up as the momentary controller. Would I use „cc notes“ or „note on“ notes for this? I changed the switch to momentary and tried it with cc notes, but no dice yet. And if this was correct, would I set up the tap, hold and double tap of the switch with the same cc number and let Loopy interpret how the gestures come in, as a normal tap or double tap etc. Or would it be necessary to give the tap, double tap and hold in the editor a different cc message each?
Thanks for your advice!
@Heinrich , true momentary is to send ON when pressed and OFF when released. Nothing more.
https://wiki.loopypro.com/Footswitches
You may have missed the wiki link I posted earlier about tap/hold/double-tap bindings:
https://wiki.loopypro.com/Tech_Note:MIDI_Bindings#Binding_Tap/Hold/Double-Tap_to_the_same_message
@espiegel123 , thanks a ton for the info, indeed, I missed that link and that is a great guide! I will play around with this setup as soon as I have more time. Had some success with deferring actions using the double tap, but will try out to cancel the tap action in double tap and hold mode, so there is no delay happening.
Since I use the midi clock with my looper setup to add drumbeats with my iphone, count-ins to stay in the groove while the looper is running, it’s a little more complex.
Let me also say, that Loopy Pro is a wonderful tool and the best looper app I found, because you can roll your own system and so much more - and I tried quite a few.