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M-Vave Chocolate pedal responce is inconsistant
Hi everyone,
I have a m-vave chocolate pedal which I've connected to Loopy Pro.
The single and double clicks are inconsistent. I'm wondering if anyone has some thoughts as to why that happens.
Here is a short video which demonstrates the situation.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-LIWF3ZxynDimL5NtaU5JSxV1zoAM7T2/view?usp=sharing
In addition, I thought I'd try to connect the pedal to my ipad with USB, rather than with Bluetooth, thinking that the direct connection would help with the consistency. But Loopy Pro won't recognize the pedal with my USB connection, even when I'm using an Apple camera adaptor with power. Any thoughts as to why it won't connect?
Thanks for your help!
Jason
Comments
Are you sure it's not connecting? The Chocolate registers a different name when it's connected by USB rather than Bluetooth. Did you try midi learning anything? What do you see when you try Add MIDI from the mixer? What settings are you using on the pedal for tap?
You might want to start with a default project, then add a midi monitor to observe what is received from the pedal when you do those double taps, just to be sure that every tap is registered.
Your first step in troubleshooting is going to be to use a MIDI Monitor to see what is going on. I suggest that you download the free ShowMIDI MIDI monitor. My Chocolate has been reliable BUT it is very sensitive to placement when used to do Bluetooth -- I mostly use it wired because of this.
First: In MIDI monitor, confirm pedal is set up as momentary
Launch ShowMIDI as a Standalone
check to see that your pedal is set up to be a momentary controller. If you used the Manufacturer Control, it will be but check to be sure that is how is it set. What you want to do for each pedal is press (without releasing) and confirm that CC value 127 was sent as soon as you pressed. Release and you should immediately see CC value 0. Repeat that to make sure that this happens each time you press. Repeat for each pedal.
Second: In MIDI Monitor, check that the pedal is sending messages on all press/releases.
Now, let's check that the pedal is functioning properly. There are some quality control issues and some people have pedals that don't reliable send messages on every press and release.
Do double-taps (again this is with ShowMIDI in standalone not in Loopy Pro). Does each press and release register?
If the first two steps went ok, let's check double-tap by itself in a new project.
Third: checking double-tap on its own in Loopy Pro
In Loopy Pro, create a new project with Loopy Pro's default project.
Turn off any global profiles that are active in Control Settings.
Enter MIDI Learn mode, tap on the first clip. Double-tap the first pedal. DON'T LEARN ANYTHING ELSE. We just want to see if double-taps are being reliable. We don't want any other bindings confusing things.
Exit MIDI Learn mode.
Does the double-tap work reliably?
======== SEPARATE ISSUE
To use the Chocoalate wired, turn the chocolate on and connect to your USB adapter.
Launch ShowMIDI in standalone
You should see SINCO in the list of connected devices. (You might also see the FootCtl device which is the Bluetooth connection).
If you do not see SINCO, try inverting your cable. For some reason some USB-C cable work in one orientation but not the other. If you still don't see it, try another cable. I have four USB-C to USB-A cables. Only two of them work in this scenario.
Incredible. Thank you for all this info! I'll check it out today.
The pedal is wired in now. Thanks for your help with that! I'm very glad to have it working.
The double-tap, and even single tap look good in ShowMidi app.
But then, in Loopy Pro, it's still a 50/50 chance of the app understanding it. In Loopy Pro, single taps work just fine. As do holds.
Sometimes I get a sense that there is a "sweet spot" of the speed at which I push the second tap. If that is the issue, the difference between an understood and a not-understood double tap must be very, very small. I've never been able to make it happen two times in a row.
If you have any more thoughts, I'd gladly try them out.
I really appreciate your help.
Jason
If every press and release is sending a message then it is a matter of practice. The second tap needs to be within 1/4 second of the first. My recommendation is to have a practice project whose only binding is a double-tap that does something like move the selection (select next clip). I think if you practice a bit that you will be able to do it reliably.
Wow. I didn't know that about the 2nd tap. Folks make it look so easy!
Thanks, again. I appreciate your time.
Jason
I never use double-tap for that reason (in any app). I just don't trust that I could get good / consistent enough to rely on it. Tap and hold (long tap) are the only foot switch commands that I use.
Use of Profiles to change what taps do in different contexts can go a long way for getting more functionality out of a limited number of switches.
I don’t know if this will help you. It took me about a week to reliably double-tap — spending maybe 5-10 minutes per session practicing double-taps. A few things helped:
Once it clicked into muscle memory it started being reliable
Using double-taps has the other downside of delaying other taps as there has to be a delay on each to wait to see if a double tap is coming.
It depends on the context actually. Loopy Pro handles a few critical cases so that defer actions is not required.
See the verse chorus looper sample project, for instance. Defer other actions is not used. So tap is processed immediately.
In play mode:
-tap toggles play (or record if the loop is empty)
-double-tap overdubs
- hold clears the clip
In this mode, the initial tap gets processed immediately. If you double-tap, loopy goes into overdub (and knows to undo any count-out the tap initiated). Similarly, hold will undo anything triggered by that initial tap. In certain cases, the hold might momentarily result in a clip playing.
In record mode
If you double-tap the .25 seconds of overdubbing that might have happened gets undone.
In some situations, you can set up double-tap and hold to reverse a tap action. (I’ve explained some about this in a wiki article with an example ).
In many situations, the latency that happens when defer other actions is turned on is immaterial. (For example, I sometimes use tap to toggle some effect, double-tap another and hold a third).
Too complicated. Your brain may revel in keeping all that kind of detail to hand, but that's not the kind of mental database I want to query every time I just want to set up a foot switch binding.
Thanks for taking the time to detail all that useful info though. 👍🏼
Just pointing out that double-tap or hold don’t necessarily delay taps (an impression given by a post in the thread.
The combos mentioned for the verse chorus looper are used by a lot of people (they are something of a standard). So, worthwhile for people to know the tsp isn’t delayed. We worked hard yo ensure that.
IMO, it is helpful for people to know that there are cases where taps aren’t delayed and cases where they need to be.
Like I said, great info and I'm glad you took the time to post it.
My comment about it being too complicated is just from my perspective regarding why I avoid double-taps. There is a sense where Loopy is beginning to feel too complicated for average mortals to keep track of all the special cases. This is a good example.
That's not a criticism of your post or of Loopy. When I pipe in to suggest simpler workflows it's with people like me in mind that don't have the bandwidth to digest all the nuances.